JGB1600

So the DCT mated up to the RB30 Block without issue. Will attempt to do the same with the 8HP over the weekend if time permits:

The top section of the adaptor kit does not have enough meat for you to elongate the holes, like you do for an RB25 gearbox to FJ20 conversion.

G'day Guys, So I manage to get my hands on a 8HP-45 from the same family of engine as my DCT. The bolt pattern of the 2 gear boxes are identical so and so it the length. Hopefully they will be interchangeable, using the same gear box mount. I also managed to pick up an old RB30 block, which I'll use for test filling the boxes. Should make life a little easier. More updates to come. Cheers

Will do mate. I'm located in Sydney. Cool Runnings Engineering on FB and instagram. By the way, I'll be doing an 8HP swap behind the FJ in the 1600. Picking up a 8HP45 tomorrow. Will have to make my own adapter kit for the FJ so that's a longer-term project.

G'day Guys, Thought I'd chime in and see if I can revive this thread. So, two years ago, I inherited my late brother's R31 Skyline. Prior to my brother's passing, we had picked up an E90X DCT transmission for our FJ20 powered 1600 build. Anyway, the DCT swap has been on ice since then, because the plan was the use an HTG GCU, but a quick google search revealed many HTG customers dissatisfied with the brand and the support. I've recently discovered CAN Performance, who make a plug-in controller for the DCT and the 8HP gearboxes. Their customer base seen very happy with the performance of the units, some of whom have swapped over from the HTG GCU. So with a controller now available, I'm moving forward with the RB/DCT conversion. The RB is still the factory NA r31 motor, fitted with a VL turbo kit and ecu. I'm currently in the process of upgrading to a Haltech 2500 elite, including DBW throttle. I've also purchased the adapter kit, from the guys at 8speed. Anyway, hopefully the end result is worth the effort and cost. Initial rough estimates so far is around 15k, including the purchase cost of the gearbox. For those who want to follow the swap, I'll update this thread for time to time. I'll do more regular updates with pics and videos on FB and insta. Happy to share the link to those if requested. Cheers, Orlando

Cheers mate. I'll conduct the test again using the spray method.

I tested it with 100ml of 50 50 by weight and again by mass. Poured them into small containers and lit them up.

G'day, thought I'd add my two cents on a few of the points raised. Just to clarify, 50:50 water meth mix does burn, whether you mixed it by weight or by volume. I conducted this test recently and was surprised by the results. If you plan on tuning the car to be water meth dependant, make sure you have some kind of fail safe. I have done a number of setups using various brands of ecus, including Link. I usually use the 0-5v input from the flow sensor to activate overlay ignition table and fuel trim. If the voltage goes over or under a set window, due to a flow fault, it will deactivate the overlay tables, keeping the engine safe. I have only set done this up using Aquamist systems so I'm not sure if the system you are using has this capability. Cheers.

The slight inconvenience of buying 20L of methanol once every 12 months is well worth the effort when compared to effort, down time and potential system failure, associated with hydrocarbon contamination of the WMI system. In addition, you will make more power with 50:50 water methanol mix than with a 50:50 water e85 mix.

All the seals in the Aquamist WMI system are designed for use with water and methanol and are not suitable for use with hydrocarbon based fuels. E85 contains 15% regular unleaded fuel, making it unsuitable to be used in the system. Methanol is quite cheap these days. Picked up 20L this week for $36 and when mixed 50:50 with distilled/demineralised water, will last 12 months+ in a street car.

G’day guys, Had an enquiry earlier in the week from a member who has been following this post so thought I’d share some updates. In one of my earlier posts, I mentioned that WMI and E85 would be a killer combo. I recently got the opportunity to test this theory after installing water injection in 2 R32GTRs. The first car ran a stock bottom end RB 26 with a big Precision turbo. On 27 psi, it made 800hp. With 500cc of post intercooler WMI it made an 830hp, will power remaining consistent on back to back pulls. At the Cootamundra GTR drag battle, with ambient temps of 30 degrees, the car ran very fast and consistent times, the quickest being a 9.97. The maximum intake air temp logged at the end of a run was 33 degrees. Under the same conditions without the WMI, intake air temps reached in excess of 90 degrees. The second car runs a RB 3.2L stroke bottom end with a 26 head, an 8582 precision turbo and a turbo 400 auto conversion. On 40 psi boost, it made 1078hp. With the WMI activated, 7% fuel trim and 2 more degrees of ignition timing, power increased to 1141hp. This car is yet to be track tested. I’ll post the results once they are in. Cheers

The Aquamist HFS3 and HFS4 units both use constant pump pressure, PWM controlled injection. This ensures correct atomisation is maintained no mater the duty cycle. Here are some videos hi lighting the difference in atomisation between a progressive pump speed (PPS) system and a PWM system:

WoW. That escalated quickly! This thread was just meant to shine some light in the benefits of water and water meth injection, not to bag on e85 or those that chose to use it or to say water injection is shit because you choose to use E85. Each to their own. For those who have readily available pump e85, it's easy to see that the choice is a no brainer. In fact, we would have probably been using e85 from the get go if it was readily available locally. But for us and many others, this is not an option. We live in Cairns for almost 2 year and with no pump e85 available, drum e85 or wmi were the only other real options to run the power levels we wanted. Even now being back in Sydney, E85 isn't available in our local area or on any of our daily routes. So for our application and situation, wmi was the better option. A 20l drum of meth is $89 delivered through VPW. A 5l tank of 50 50 water meth last about 3 months of street driving. A night of roll racing, 12-13 runs, uses about 1.5l. Both systems have their advantages and their disadvantages but are both proven winners in terms of increased performance. In fact, what some are seeing as the biggest winner now is a combination of both e85 and water injection. In these situations, pre turbo and post intercooler water or water meth injection is add to a vehicle already running e85. The e85 takes care of your in cylinder cooling and knock suppression, while the water injection keep IATs low and stable and increases the mass flow of the turbo. This type of set up would work extremely well for those who drift or love doing big burnouts, where a lot of time is spent at wide open throttle at relatively low vehicle speeds. We are happy with the decision to utilise water injection for our specific application. We are always willing to share and compare ideas and results of different systems and technologies as this creates a positive medium for development. Happy boost all, no matter you preferred jungle juice. Cheers

We are confident that the turbo is not being oversped. But just to be sure we will be fitting a turbo speed sensor prior to further tuning early in the New Year.

G’day guys, Thought we’d post a quick update to cover off on all the changes we have made over the past few months. We have now upgraded to gen 2 Garrett gtx3071r, Bosch motorsport 1550cc fuel injectors and an in tank Walbro 460 fuel pump. We also made the switch back to direct port water meth injection, using 4x0.6mm direct port check valve jets, along with 2x0.5mm post intercooler jets and 1x0.4 pre turbo jet. On the Unigroup Engineering dyno last Thursday, with ambient air temps reaching 36+ degrees, the car made 277kw/371hp @22 psi without water meth injection. With the water meth on (using a 80/20 methanol/water mix), it made 352kw/471hp @ 30psi and 388kw/520hp @ 35psi. At this point, we reached the knock limit of the engine due to maxing out the flow of the water meth system. We will upgrade this system early in the New Year in a bid to squeeze a little more from this setup. Cheers

G’day guy, For this instalment, the aim was to optimise the tune in the lower RPM range and increase the total power output by increasing the water meth flow to around 50% of total fuel flow. This equated to roughly 1250cc/min. The system was set up to use a total of 4 jets, 3 in the charge pipe post intercooler and 1 pre turbo. Tuning saw us achieve some great gains in the lower and mid range RPM, as you can see from the before and after dyno pictures below. But with the water meth activated, we soon realized that this configuration was not yielding the results we were after, with a 16kw decrease over our last peak numbers. At this point, we took a set back and sat down with the Unigroup Engineering crew to investigate the possible causes of the drop in power and a way ahead. In the end it came down to the fact the we were injecting too much water meth in a localised area, as we had over 1100cc/min being injected at one area post intercooler. This caused the air to reached and exceeded 100% saturation point, meaning the amount of air entering the engine could no longer suspend the liquid being injected in an atomised form. This causes overcooling of the combustion process due to poor atomisation, leading to a loss in power, which is exactly what we were experiencing. It was decided that we would remove one of the three charge pipe jets which would reduce the post intercooler injection to around 800cc/min. This resulted in an 11kw in in power and a much nicer power curve right through the rev range. That said, we were still 5kw off our previous peak of 336kw. We decided to leave it there for now, as we will be making some changes in the near future, which we will expand on shortly. During the tuning process, we paid close attention to the EGTs, via the thermocouples fitted to the exhaust manifold. A significant temperature drop in EGTs was noticed when water meth was activated, as was the fact that cylinder number 2 was running quite a bit hotter than the rest. Some individual cylinder fuel adjustment was used to quickly solve this issue. During a recent outing to Sydney’s roll racing, we did some data logging. The ambient temp on the day was up around the 38-degree mark. In the waiting lanes, air intake temp reached 50+ degrees. At the end of each run, air intake temps were down to 40 degrees. In the next instalment, we will be maintaining the current flow rate but making the switch back to direct port water meth injection. This will be done using 1x140cc/min jet in each inlet runner, 1x250cc/min jet post intercooler piping and 1x150cc/min jet pre turbo. The reason for making the switch is for better atomisation, less chance of saturation and a more equal distribution of the water meth. We are hopeful that with this change and some more fine tuning, we will be able to achieve 350rwkw. Only time will tell so stay tuned. Please feel free to add to the discussion by leaving any questions or feedback you may have. Cheers 54.png.html][/URL] (Hub dyno figures.) (Most recent chassis dyno figures.)

Thats interesting. I will keep a closer eye on this from now on. Cheers mate I haven't heard of anyone using both e85 and water injection. I think the best scenario for this would be one where no intercooler is used (for whatever reason) and pre and/or post turbo water injection is used instead. Anyway, I look forward to seeing your results. Nothing like real world testing to put the myths to bed.

Cheers Shoota_77. What sort of power figures are you after?

G'day gouys, Here is the link to a thread I started last year on my testing and results from using water and water meth injection on my FJ20 turbo. Two weeks ago after a few more tweaks, I made 455hp with water meth injection. In the mid range, i saw gains of up to 125hp and 85hp at peak power. Cheers.

G'day guy, Just thought I'd post a quick update. I recently installed a new LINK G4+ extreme ECU and had to have to car retuned. While setting up and testing the testing the WMI system, I realised that two of the direct port nozzles had a non uniform spray pattern. The car hadn’t been used in over 12 months so I decided to pull the jets apart and give them a clean. This did not go as planned and I ended up causing further degradation to the spray pattern, making the jets unserviceable. As this was the morning of the dyno, had to come up with a new plan because I had lost two of the direct port jets. Going through my spare parts pox, I found the jets from my previous HFS3 kit. So I plumbed a 1mm and a 0.8mm jet post intercooler and a 0.4mm jet pre turbo and plugged the direct port holes. Total flow capacity at the 30 psi boost I intended on running was now 830cc. On the dyno, the car made 370hp @ 24psi without WMI and 455hp @ 31psi and 6 degrees extra timing with WMI. That is a peak difference of 85hp but at 5000rpm, the difference is 125hp. It should be noted that the latest dyno tuning was conducted on a hub dyno, while the ones previous were done on a chassis dyno. So what does the future hold? Well my plan is to get some new, larger direct port and post intercooler jets to increase to the water meth to 50% of fuel. I am currently running 750cc injectors with a max duty cycle of 80%, 2400cc. So I’ll be looking at 1200cc of water meth in hope of squeezing another 30+hp from this set up. I'll also be setting up closed loop boost control as it is very lazy coming on boost with the current open loop set up. Thanks for reading and please feel free to add any advice or criticism. Kind regards, Orlando

The torque increase mentioned above makes for a very noticeable difference in the aggressiveness and rate of acceleration of the vehicle. Many smiles will indeed be had, provided your drive line is up to the task!! The debate on whether or not WI can match the performance of e85 is a highly contentious one. I believe that WI is not only capably of matching the performance of e85, it can exceed it. The key to building a WI system that can out perform e85 lies with the combination of pre and post turbo WI. Properly set up and calibrated post turbo WI provides additional cooling both in the intake track and inside the cylinder (even more so if port injection is used), yielding similar results to using e85. Pre turbo WI cools the air as it is being compressed. As such, the work that would have been wasted as heat, now goes into creating more air flow from the turbo. Therefore a properly set up pre and post turbo WI system has the potential to achieve superior results to e85 due to its ability to provide cooler, denser intake air, inter cylinder cooling and an increased mass air flow from the turbo charger. http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced Engine Tuning/Pre Turbo Injection.html

My bad. I miss the PowerFC part. That being the case, like Dose Pipe Sutututu said, cutting the EBC on fail safe activation is the best option.