relicr31act

Looks like he is out!! Don't know what from yet I hope mechanical and not a crash.

On the first stage he said he was taking it "easy" had a half spin and was only 5.5 seconds slower than Solberg!!!

Go you good thing!!! How good is this kid? We might have a World Rally champion before we have a F1 World champion!!

You have to admire T.Cochrane in one respect. He saw an opportunity (not unlike B.Ecclestone) to organise a disorganised rabble into some sort of commercially viable entity. And he has done an admirable job. In a country that really only has one truly great permanent race track (Phillip Island) the concentration on trying to get more temporary circuits as mentioned earlier while they or he pockets millions in revenue is a little sad, predictable, regrettable. The show should not be all about supercabs. I don't even know what the supports for the rounds are this year. I'm guessing Porsches and umm nope no idea. Surely there is room for some other stuff to spice up the show a bit. Nations Cup showed some real potential and I for one quite liked it with the exception of S. Newman trying his hand in a Ferrari! I think with the right promotion GTP or some sort of variant with a few Skylines of course would be good. Leave the big show as supercabs but for ****sake a bit of variety wouldn't go astray. And of course F3 should be given a run even if I am the only one watching rich kiddies racing on daddies coin for one season before they disappear or buy a supercab team for themselves.

When I say F1 drivers I am assuming ppl know that I mean the ones of substance. This does NOT include A. Yoong, A.De Cesaris, Nakajima and any number of other that were there because of reasons other than their driving ability. In V8 supertaxis there has been there share of duds, Thexton rings a bell, Brede another. Any category has its share of pretenders that is unavoidable, it is the nature of the beast. In tennis all you need is decent pair of runners and a decent racket and plenty of TALENT to succeed. Unfortunately in motor sport the tennis racket costs buckets of money and if you have that then talent is of secondary importance. I stand by my comment that V8supershoppingtrolleys are dinosaurs. Live axle, pushrod, 1350kgs! 660hp through a ten inch tyre? what else would you call them? Admittedly the formula has been a success but at some point it will be like one day cricket, stale and predictable. What are they so afraid of that they only want two kids in the sand pit or do Ford and Holden own the rights to building dinosaurs? The racing is OK as it goes but why not have other brand? Group A for a time was the best sedan racing in the world but was doomed by the FIA (now there is a bunch of knuckledraggers that couldn't run a raffle) deciding that the rules wouldn't be f###ed over by one manufacturer or another. Then nissan comes along builds Godzilla and group a is dead in the water. In Oz unfortunately the powers that be thought that the right formula was V8 to sooth all the flanno wearing drunks in Reid park and nothing else. don't bother about all the ppl that thought the sweetest sounding sedan ever built were the Walkinshaw XJS jags!! or 635csi BMW! What we have now is cookie cutter cars with the same six racing for the lead week in week out. It needs fresh blood now or mark my words in five years it will be gone. They need to change the ridiculous name (what is so super about them after all) and allow in other brands using lead trophies for parity and spice it up a bit. Then you really would have a world class sedan series which could be exported without ppl having to be told that a Commodore is GM and a Falcon is a Ford!

Well I will disagree with that statement. 20 years ago or maybe a little longer early 80's anyway, Moffat was sponsored by Peter Stuvysant(spelling?) and he ran Mazda RX7's and had the biggest budget in the paddock. Don't misunderstand me, I have a lot of time for A. Moffatt, he was probably the most professional driver around in Australia at the time. In fact I remember seeing him at a press conference and throughout the interview he had a lit cigarette burning away but doesn't smoke! But go and have a drive in a Rotax go kart and then jump in your road car and tell me which one is harder to drive! The quality of the equipment is irrelevant. In F1 twenty years ago they had 1200hp in qualifying trim and were notoriously difficult to drive. And who became the master of these beasts, a certain A.Senna. But no doubt there would have been sedan drivers around that would have been just as good as him, yeah right.

If you look at my original post I was just trying to make the point that Allan Moffatt giving Mark Webber advice on Grand Prix racing is like a pennant golfer giving advice to Tiger Woods!! The fact remains that F1 is the best and most demanding area of motorsport. It is the most demanding in driving skill required, perseverance, media skills, political skills etc. To succeed in F1 a driver must be the complete package not just good behind the wheel. And to say that I am pushing a particular barrow in regards to Nascar/V8 supertaxis I think you are missing the point. I don't dislike them as much as you may think. I just think that it needs to be pointed out that most of these guys just aren't as good as open wheeler drivers, period. If someone has never had any experience other than driving moderately fast road cars (which are all slow in reality in comparison to racing cars of any persuasion) it may be difficult to comprehend that a V8 supertaxi is a heavy, undertired, technologically backward excuse for a racing car! As for the racing if you like processional, contrived, one dimensional freight trains then maybe that is your thing. I don't think lesser of ppl who do I just know that somethings are better. Some ppl are happy with cask wine, some ppl aren't that is all. I just think it is sad that in this country young kart racers don't dream of winning Monaco anymore they want to win the Clipsal 500/Bathurst. No wonder we are having trouble getting more than guy every twenty years into F1.

Granted there are some very commercially strong sedan series in other countries, catering for the lowest common denominator will always attract a strong following. Nascar has to be the most pointless and uninteresting form of racing there is and is commercially the biggest series on earth! Go figure.

Knock yourself out!

In Australia ( a microscopic arena of motorsport) it is the reverse to most of the rest of the world where for whatever reason open wheelers (read FFord) is treated as a stepping stone to V8 supertaxis. This is an anomaly that I and many others don't quite understand. It was not always the case as once upon a time the likes of Geoghan, Brabham, Gardiner, Matich, Stilwell, Harvey, Perkins, Jones, Schuppan just to name a few were considered great Grand Prix and open wheeler drivers who just happened to drive sedans for something to do when the Tasman series wasn't running. They all learnt in the lesser formulas and just about all had a crack at the Grand Prix scene with varying degrees of success. Unfortunately ppl of the younger generation have been brought up on a diet of sedan racing and bugger all else. To say that most open wheeler drivers in this country are one season wonders is a bit rich. How did Greg Murphy, Garth Tander, Craig Lowndes, Mark Webber, James Courtney, Ryan Briscoe, Marcus Ambrose, Greg Ritter, Rick Kelly, Todd Kelly, Russell Ingall, Steven Richards, Will Davidson, Alex Davidson, Simon Wills, David Besnard and many others get their start? Go karts (open wheeler) then Formula Ford (open wheeler) and in most cases Formula Holden or Formula Three long before most took the commercially sound but easier route of the V8 supertaxi. This is the main reason why it has taken over twenty years for someone (David Brabham's stint with Simtek doesn't really count) like Mark Webber to make it to the forefront of F1. The point is that good open wheeler drivers make great sedan drivers (it is easier) The reverse is never true! I might be mistaken but I can't think of one sedan driver that has gone to openwheelers and done a great job but I can certainly of plenty that have gone the other way. Point proven! I would be interested to know if any of the participants in this thread have actually ever driven anything other than sedans to base their opinions on, other than relying on conjecture and hearsay.

Just another "Schuweave". The guy is a master at it, ask Damon Hill!!

yawn

f1 is as much about money and politics as it is racing, dont forget that, it has been since the early 80's when big money came into it. in the world of business sometimes whats best for your wallet is more important then your on track performance. If you have a seat that everybody wants to sit in doesn't that give you the opportunity to maximise it's commercial potential? Michael Schumacher had to come up with $10 million from Bitburger for his first drive in F1. Does that mean he bought his way in and doesn't really have the talent to be SEVEN time world champion? The fact is that in any top league form of motorsport money is required. That is why you end up fields full of rich people whether that be V8 supertaxis or F1. There are exceptions, Greg Ritter after years of working six days a week as a plasterer for two drives a year has finally got a gig because of determination and talent. Mark Webber has got into F1 on a huge talent and 400,000 from David Campese to finish F3. This lead to his gig with Mercedes and the rest is history. But if this guy was no good do you think Frank Williams would be paying him $6m a year to turn up and toodle around? JPM who was Craig Lowndes teammate at Supernova in F3000 a few years ago is now with Mclaren. Why? Because he is good! Craig is in V8 supertaxis because JPM belted him stupid to the point where Craig got the sooks and wanted to come home! I know from personal experience that money will get you some of the way but at some point you need talent. Someone who I worked with (name removed to protect the untalented) stumped up 400,000 for a drive in V8 supertaxis last year and was lapped at every meeting where he didn't crash! He thought that he was the next big thing but can't drive. Daddy would have happily paid for him again but nobody wants HIS money because he is very average! To discount everyone in F1 as being put there for some sort of hidden commercial agenda is ridiculous. Like it or not most (not all) of the current crop of drivers are there because they had the money and the talent to back it up.

Look ummm I don't mean to be offensive but that is just drivel. With the exception of a couple of real race car drivers that I can think of that drove sedans as a hobby and were straight away the best at it (Jim Clark and Frank Gardiner) the vast majority of sedan drivers are there because they weren't good enough in the real ones. For someone to say that a sedan driver could drive F1 if they chose to is a joke. Ppl like Allan Moffat should take a reality check and realise that they were moderately successful in a VERY small pond. Moffat had some talent that is for sure but to criticize someone for wanting to win in the biggest motorsport show on earth is a joke and Mark Webber had every right to put him back in his box!! The difference in performance of the two types of machine and just the physical demands on the body should be enough for most ppl to realise how much higher the demands are in F1 than V8 superbullshit. 0-200 in five seconds, 3.5 g's around corners, 5g under brakes come on if you think that Marcos Ambrose could compete you are on drugs. And to suggest that the likes of M.Schumacher and M. Webber are there because of money is ignorant in the extreme!!

Unless you are doing regular track days they expensive rice but having said that I can get you some reconditioned for about $2500

Sawa great grab on the news. Some journo asking Mark Webber about Allan Moffat saying that he should stop whingeing about finishing fifth. Webber looks at the journo and says, "How may Grand Prixs has Allan Moffat driven in?" Top points. When will ppl in this country realise that sedan drivers are considered one step above cab drivers in the real world of motorsport. I heard a rumour and that is all it is, that about three years ago HRT offered him a drive at Bathurst and he told them to ring back when he was about forty and had nothing better to do!!!

Nascar drivers are the most highly paid and in general lowly skilled drivers in the world. If Ambrose can't teach those "good ol boys" a thing or two I would be amazed. I remember when they took Nascars to something other than an oval about half the field had to have lessons in heal and toe and threshold braking! But lets face it, sedan drivers are really just rejects from real race cars anyway (the ones that don't have doors). So he is a two time champion in V8 supertaxis who cares?

Congrats Channel Ten!! That has to be the worst telecast I have had to endure since Murray walker retired. Leigh Diffey should just piss off!! Why don't we get the ITV team of Martin Brundle and Jonathan Palmer? Hey Leigh here is a tip. When the brain dead director puts on the in car stuff, shut the ***c up!!! 18000rpm V10 or Leigh Diffey? Duhh. That director must be fresh from lawn bowls or something equally exciting. What was so ***cing exciting about Villeneuve and Alonso that we had to watch it for nine laps? Admittedly they were fighting over 10 and 11th spot! And while I'm venting my splean how is it that we went to an ad break after 3 laps? Roll on Malaysia where we will have the ITV crew back and fingers crossed a director who knows something about racing. Montoya ran off somewhere and lost second place did we see it? No. Coulthard gave Webber the biggest don't argue running him onto the grass after he was baulked by a ***cing Minardi. Did we see it? No. Once again Channel Ten thanks for ***cing nothin.

Couldn't you jus go on a 4wd dyno?

I hate to say it but I think that Ferrari will be right up there again. The F2005 is belting around Fiorano as we speak probably making sure that nothing falls off it and that it is close to being as fast as last year. If that is the case then the other guys are going to be looking at the back of two red cars again. Pre season testing means nothing except to those that have the data from full race distance simulations and the ability to determine the real situation from that data. I predict that it is unlikely to be a walk over for who ever ends up winning and hope that there is a five second gap between first and second with the whoever is running second closing at over a second a lap! If Michelin have got their shit together as far as graining goes then I think that Williams, Mclaren and Renault will be a lot closer at the end of the race than they have been for some time. Now all they have to do is get rid of those bullshit fuel stops and make the suckers run the whole race distance on one tank of fuel and one set of tyres and we might see who really is the best Grand Prix driver and is in the last five years who is the best at ringing the crap out of a car for twenty laps!!!

Question of the week! Why are most drag cars automatic? Mmmm I wonder!!

It would have been his own stupid fcukin fault!! What do the cops do let em go because they drive too fast? I hope the dickhead gets a good stint in a cell with bubba frankly. If you met the guy he would be a prize idiot too I'm guessing. Should have his car crushed in front of him and his licence CANCELLED.

Put someone in the car that doesn't granny shift and see what the difference is. Sometimes the culprit is the nut behind the wheel.

Um your left foot is controlling the clutch! It is possible to shift without the clutch if necessary on the track of course doubt you would bother in everyday driving but sometimes it livens up an otherwise boring drive!!

I think that Petter and his competitors ARE trying to go flat out everywhere!! The nature of the beast is that with only a couple of runs over any course and there being a degree of the "unknown" it simply isn't possible given the severe repercussions, namely hitting trees at 200km/h!! In F1 the speeds and G's etc are definitely higher but the safety level is so much higher it is not funny. They have ppl on every corner with fire extinguishers etc. In rally you f*** up big time you are on your own!! Admittedly in circuit racing you have to contend with other cars which in rally you don't, but in rally you have water splashes, jumps, snow, sand, dust, trees, kangaroos, big rocks, spectators, ruts, banks, mud etc etc etc!!! I think that Sarrizen who is driving for Subaru this year is a case in point. He did nothing in F1 admittedly but he did well in Corsica (I think) last year finishing third outright. This was tarmac and what he knows. But in Sweden a couple of weeks ago Chris Atkinson (Aussie rookie to WRC) kicked his arse in the snow even though neither had never driven on snow or studs. Chris's extensive experience in rallying has shone through and in my opinion will continue to do so. Every other form of motorsport is to a more or less degree fairly contrived and for that reason does not demand as complete as set of driving skills as rally, no question.