ctjet-I never said you were a newbie! Anyway-good to see there are still a few of us with some passion for our teams. Give me the red teams crazy antics anyday. Like I said for me there is something special about the team, factory and Fiorano-there is no doubt that Mclaren havnt got that special feel-there HQ is very efficient and highly technical but lacks soul-thats not to say I dont respect the cars on the track cause they have always been quick /but thats all just quick, not special