HarrisRacing

Actually I'm reading the opposite of this from the manufacturers. I'm running 6x 850cc Bosch EV14 injectors. They run very well. Seeing about 85% duty at 8k rpms and 18 psi boost. Also I'm at 19.9 deg of timing and no knock up there. I'm at about 24 deg timing at 7k rpms and it slowly dives down from there to the almost 20 deg. 1) a single injector in the post-intercooler stream will reduce intake temperatures which can help REDUCE power LOSS from heatsoak, but only makes more power IF: the AFR is adjusted on engine, the boost is raised, or the timing is bumped. If none of these are changed the engine will be likely more reliable, yet make less power. 2) They are saying that meth/water injection makes the mixture richer and reduces power initially if no other changes are made. Makes sense because methanol is a fuel after all and water is reducing the combustion temps in the cylinder which effectively should be robbing some amount of heat energy that normally turns into POWER. That being said, I think the additional ACTUAL octane of the methanol is marginal and is not what is making then engine safer to run higher boost and more advanced ignition timing... Using the SNOW performance table here where I'm at currently (18 psi boost about 600 HP) they suggest a 624 cc/min (or mL/min same units) of injection rate. This means that really I could use an extra fuel injector (IF they atomized as well as water injection nozzles - which they don't) to inject the water/meth. Given a 50/50 mix the additional fuel is still around 310cc/min of extra raw methanol. Granted, methanol is supposed to run SIGNIFICANTLY RICHER than Gasoline so this amount of actual added octane due to the additional methanol is negligible IMO. The benefit of a single fogger nozzle is that it cools the intake charge and having this upstream of my IAT sensor (which is smack in the middle of my manifold) would allow me to compensate for the decreased IATs. The benefit of the multiple nozzles would be the ensure that I am getting the same amount of actual fluid injected to each cylinder as opposed to relying on the single fogger to distribute to all cylinders equally. I would say that this is the real purpose of the methanol as it would evaporate significantly quicker into the airstream and keep the vapor more evenly distributed in the air stream through the runners. My goals would be to: 1) Leave the low end power level where it is at about 16 psi or so. Perhaps only inject on top end or at boost onset to keep the max torque from causing detonation. Stretch my boost out to 20 psi and see what it can do with WMI and more timing. Since the injectors could be leaned out (and I'm currently at 85% at 8k rpms at 18 psi) I think the meth/water will allow me to stretch these 850cc's out a bit more and the timing advance is simply easy free'd up horsepower at this point. This will max out my 850cc injectors I'm sure. Then once I get comfortable with this... 2) Change fuel injectors to 1,000cc see if I could support 24-25 psi reliably on the water injection and 93 pumpgas. I doubt I would want more than this amount of horsepower at that point because I would be worried the trans would totally grenade.

Benefits of multiport are the same as same for nitrous. Ensuring the same amount of protection goes to all cylinders. I would also add a 7th larger nozzle post-intercooler to reduce overall temp as well

Did a search and came up EMPTY in this category which surprised me actually. I have the Hypertune V2 manifold which has 12 bosses for fuel injectors and I'm thinking of using the other 6 (currently not drilled through) injector ports for water injection nozzles. I have seen where water/methanol injection consistently beats 116 octane fuel when used on top of 93 octane and I'm thinking this may be perfect for my streetcar. Does anyone here have any experience with this setup? I am at the limit of 93 octane at about 20 psi boost on my 850cc injectors currently and have a pretty good fuel pump for it (AEM 380 LPH pump) so I'd like to keep from changing over to an E85 system for now (which would require another fuel pump, bigger injectors (1300cc), lowered fuel mileage, etc). The Haltech has extra PWM ouptus and I have a couple of digital relays here, so I'm thinking of installing a water/methanol system which will be controlled VIA Haltech. I'm not sure what it does to the wideband reading, and I'd like to see if anyone has a "go-by" of sorts for setup (nozzle sizes, AFR targets, etc). EDIT- I think I have calculated for 25 psi boost and 50/50 mix of water/methanol I would need about 800-1,000 mL/min of total injection rate. I'd likely start with 30% duty cycle and ramp this up with my power levels from 15 psi up (probably some ratio of fuel injector rate) up to 25 psi. So I'm planning on using (6x) 1.9 GPH nozzles and building a kit. I'll likely get the snow box to ensure flow during running as well (assuming this can be read by the Haltech).

Should be awesome!!! I'll be moving to E85 in the next couple of months as well. Done with this pumpgas! I am just leaving too much power on the table.

Adding fuel DEFINITELY helped...I had a lean spot. I've been playing with cams and all but vacation took some days out of my tuning schedule . Advancing cams 2 deg in and 2 deg ex didn't really help. I think the Tomei's like 0 and 0 to be honest. It was my best overall powerband. I'll pull timing on boost onset for you today and get back to back logs at same temps, etc. Also I want to note that the car is extremely responsive and drivable. in 3rd it's full boost almost exactly at 4k and I'm very happy with that. I have compared my powerband to lots of others and it's extremely acceptable so far. Top end is ridiculous.

Welcome to the club! I would really like to see how mine compares boost threshold etc on pumpgas if you can get some data. Thanks!

Not sure if the RB25 shares parts with the 26, but my car showed up with 5 destroyed main bearings from what was no doubt oil starvation. BUT the thing I want to add here is that mine also had 2 cracked valve guides. They are brittle and crack. I would change them for bronze and get the head overhauled in a heartbeat if you are pulling the head off. If speaking of reliability.

Heck mine with stroker and the small Tomei cams kind of lopes, but that one above is MUCH AWESOMER. Check the 35 sec mark.

I saw your dyno. I'm on Tomei Poncam A's with the 260 duration intake and 252 duration exhaust on a stroker motor with divided exhaust housing on BW 8374 EFR IWG .92 housing and I am seeing full boost in 4th gear around 3600 rpms, but full boost in 3rd right at 4k. I'm spinning to 8k rpms and 17 psi is 464 whp and 371 ft-lbs toqrue.If you look at Tomei's website about their stroker kit, my horsepower numbers follow their dyno almost exactly with a 20% addition in power (converting to flywheel from wheel HP). If you notice, there appears to be about a 400 rpm shift to the left from going to a stroker with a bit more top end due to increased displacement. I'd say your numbers are on target to be honest. We both need to apply more boost and/or move to E85 (which will definitely be my next step - give me a couple of months). I'm still trying for 500 whp on pump gas which should be possible up around 19-20 psi and I would bet it would hit 400 wtq there as well. Also it should be noted that if I were to go for total streetable HP ON 93 PUMPGAS on a RB26 with stock cams, I would go smaller than 62mm turbo chargers - I would pick something in the high 50mm...like BW 7670 or in your case 5862. These will all have a better powerband and will make the car more usable on the street if less than 20 psi boost. The 7670 would be insanely fast and responsive. I was going to go there, but when the stroker decision was made, i scrapped it for 8374. Again, you'll be limited to 8k or less rpms and likely 20 psi or less, but you'll have better powerband for sure. I have attached my graph, I'd like to compare the two if you have a printout of yours (or could put it in the attached excel spreadsheet). dyno converted.xlsx

AWESOME thanks!

Does anyone else with an aftermarket ECU see a difference in TACHO readout on the gauge VS. the ECU? I'm running Haltech PnP and my tach is reading high about 500 rpms at 8k and scaled down accordingly (250 rpms off at 4k, etc). It doesn't bother me as the ECU is definitely the driving factor and is doing the hard math, but I set my redline at 8k but my tach clearly looks like 8500 in videos.

WHOA! This in-tank setup is specific to the R32 I take it?! I like that. Had I seen it I would have done that. EDIT - found their facebook page.

no sweat on butting in. I'm saving this for later. Totally reflects what I found. http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/342963-camshaft-for-rb26-with-good-response-and-idle/?p=5531968

I will try them. Videos of how the car drives. Also added a screenshot of a log of a street pull I just did on my 255/40/17 hankook RS3's. 1st through 3rd to redline in 3rd (8k) from dead stop is 9.0 seconds. a little first gear punch from low rpms and roll through a couple gears 3rd gear pull 3rd gear threshold test.

Stock knock sensors...great is there more I don't know? I'm trying to tune for zero knock and have been pretty successful so far. Cam changes are changing what timing I can run fyi. Just ran another log. 5th gear easily hits 17.1 psi at 3500 rpms (almost exactly). Just hard to make it hit the numbers in 3rd gear...it's around 4k every time. I'll post some videos in a bit.

About 30 deg at 7 psi - look at the pictures above. Forget the dip in that chart there was a touch of knock at 4200.

I added 3 turns to it...it did help a tad for sure but still starting at 2k rpms in 3rd gear equates to 17 psi at 4,200 rpms with the cams set like they are still. I added 2 logs of the same pull - Yes I see it's rich on spoolup just wanted to make sure to include throttle position, rpms, boost, ignition advance and boost control output. Also note it just "touched" my knock limit at around 4200 rpms and ended up pulling timing (pulled 4.5 deg is what I have it set to) because I have it pulling at anything over a knock count of 100. It was 104 and then it pulled so the timing map is usually set at the difference between the ignition advance and the amount pulled (4.5 deg) - hence the dip in my timing after 4200 rpms. Even though idle was a bit rougher with the cams the other way, the car was faster for sure on bottom and mid-range. I'll get some more logs tonight to compare. What I think I may end up with is cams at base separation but both cams advanced (maybe 3-4 deg advanced each cam) Also I definitely will do a boost leak test this week. And one more thing, I'm only on 3" exhaust...but it's pretty well made 3" with minimal bends and is all mandrel throughout. I'll be going to 3.5" later, but didn't think that would be a big restriction to spoolup at this point. Also note I am on PUMPGAS. I know E85 is much better, but I don't have access to it here so I hope you guys aren't comparing my numbers to E85 spoolup times.

4th gear will spool considerable earlier FYI. 3700 rpms is 15.1 psi...easily would see 20 by 4k in 4th just ramping it up. My cold compression numbers from a couple weeks ago. I think I'm around factory CR...didn't honestly finish the calculations, but with the decking and valve relieving in the head and the squish pads gone it seems about right with the pistons I ordered. 1 - 165 2 - 170 3 - 165 4 - 172 5 - 170 6 - 170 Just went and set cams backwards a bit by lengthening LSA... Exhaust 2 deg advanced, Intake 2 deg ret. Car definitely idles better and drives smoother, but again seems noticeably weaker in the mid range but very strong on top. Boost threshold is about the same...no real changes otherwise. But sticking to the thread my 3rd gear time while rolling in from low rpms (like 3k) and timing from 4500 rpm to 8k rpms is 5.184 seconds if anyone can get data at 16.5-17 psi (waves a little) from some logs I would appreciate it.

Correct. With cams set to '0' and '0' In 3rd gear from about a 25 mph punch (1,900 rpms) I will have the following with the electronic EFR wastegate solenoid bleeding boost: 3 psi = 2684 rpm 5 psi = 3046 rpm 10 psi = 3566 rpm 12 = 3713 rpm 13 = 3827 rpm (at this point my closed loop boost is activated and starts dropping duty to anticipate the "spike") 16 = 4030 rpm (duty is down to 14.5% bleed) Time to go from 2500 rpms to 4000 rpms = 3.415 sec (for whatever this is worth). With cams set to IN+2 and EX-4 In 3rd gear from about a 25 mph punch (1,900 rpms) I will have the following with the electronic EFR wastegate solenoid bleeding boost: 3 psi = 2689 rpm 5 psi = 3076 rpm 10 psi = 3636 rpm (new boost settings duty cycle starts dropping here to control spike better). 12 = 3785 rpm (boost duty dropped to 27.6% bleed here) 13 = 3883 rpm (at this point my closed loop boost is activated and starts dropping duty to anticipate the "spike") 16 = 4137 rpm (duty is down to 17.8% bleed) Time to go from 2500 rpms to 4000 rpms = 3.152 sec (even though slower boost, the car is quicker by a marginal 1/4 of a sec) From what is a pretty extreme change in cam positions, I didn't gain on boost threshold (even though I shortened the Lobe Separation Angle by 6 degrees!) but the car was a bit quicker. Now at these low rpms I'm sure this data isn't 100% perfect data, but you get the point that a pretty extreme cam changed (+2 intake and -4 exhaust) didn't bring down my boost threshold. Later I will try a different method by going back stock on the LSA, but moving both cams slightly advanced to see if it will spool quicker. I'm also on 93 octane pumpgas and low compression ratio. Also on the Hpertune V2 90mm TB and ported head. I also have the squish pads removed so perhaps I'm just going to wrong way with my build and should start aiming for increasing top end power. The 4k is totally livable...and transient response from this turbo is absolutely incredible, but yes, I did expect more bottom end. Perhaps I have an engine issue, but CR and valve clearances came back good on tests. Car seems to be very fast.

Started experimenting with cam timing this weekend. I have the Tomei Poncam A's (small exhaust duration), and decided to try the arbitrary 2 deg advance on Intake and 4 deg retard on exhaust (basically closing the Lobe-separation angle) - NOTE these are CRANKSHAFT advance retard numbers. Upon startup the car wouldn't idle and was clear that just these small changes made very large changes to the way the car ran. I had to crack the throttle body a good bit just to get my idle valve to be able to control the idle. It's also a lumpier / gurlglier idle than before. Makes sense as I moved my total LSA 6 degree closer. After resetting my base time I noticed the car was a bit snappier on extreme bottom end. Seems to make boost quicker and has a flatter powerband. Bad news is the STRONG topend pull I had from 6500 to 8k is gone...seems to have flattened that out because I lost my "VTEC YO!" feel. Not saying the car is slower on a pull, but it definitely made a difference on overall powerband. I believe I may have gone a bit past where I want to be. I will reset the intake cam back to 0 today and see if just 4 deg retard on the exhaust cam helps. I will also try leaving the LSA around 4 deg and moving both cams the same amount one direction (advanced for more bottom end) and the other (retard for more top). Also it should be noted that I saw more knock with cams set on a tightened LSA! interesting it followed most of the theories I've read about pretty much spot on. On my setup, I wouldn't be surprised to see it like being advanced on both cams the same amount (stroker may like the valves to open sooner). I need to schedule dyno time, but the idea is that I will have a fuel map made for each setting and I should be able to just swap maps on the dyno as we change the cam settings.

Thanks Spring is the high boost cannister on 3 turns. In 3rd and 4th it will come on around 3700 etc. My car is a stroker, but stock bores so I'm bit gaining much displacement. Low compression, ported head, big valves, Tomei poncam A (small ones) not indexed yet (0 and 0 settings), also my squish pads are removed. I'll check those hopefully this weekend and let you know what I find. I'm sure the cam changes will help.

I am also on 6 boost. Lots of pictures in build thread. Raw brokerage won't work, Full-Race won't work with r32 ps and ac.I'll get some more videos but I have some on my build thread. I need to get a driving video of the car soon.

After having numerous fueling issues associated with high temperature fuel on highway driving (45 min +) I decided to cut voltage going to the pump on cruise and it helped immensely. My setup is a DW300 in tank (lift pump) feeding a small Integrated Engineering sump with a single AEM 380 lph pump going to the Hypertune fuel rail setup (V2 complete intake) and an aeromotive regulator. The lift pump flows into the sump and returns back to the tank (keeping it full) and runs on battery voltage on a relay (switched on with computer fuel pump out). The AEM380 lph is wired such that I am running battery voltage to/from the pump back into a 5 pin 30 amp relay. On the NC leg of the relay I'm going to the factory voltage controller and letting that reduce voltage by limiting the grounding of this leg of the pump. The switched leg (NO) goes straight to ground and is controlled by my Haltech at 3k rpms and 0 psi boost. This way when I'm cruising and the pump is at low voltage and is quiet...Then pretty much anytime I am in boost I am getting full battery voltage through the pump. It helped ALOT. This pump would be extremely noisy after the fuel was overheated and would sound like fuel cavitation after 45 or so minutes especially at 1/3 or less fuel. IMO if you have multiple pumps, you should be running some sort of fuel pump control in order to reduce added heat. It's also silly IMO to just blast your FPR all day long with more flow than it should be seeing. In the next week or so I will be dumping the factory voltage controller and going to complete PWM fuel pump control for both pumps on Solid State Relays. This way I can get nice smooth fuel controls for both pumps and can forget the factory setup altogether.

First tune, ran out of dyno time. Boost on graph is PSI * 10 (for scaling purposes) and is straight from the log. It literally rained while we dyno'd so 100% humidity and 83 deg F ambient. This is STOCK Haltech timing advance (untouched). Only would knock at 20 psi at 4400 rpms during spike. I'm DEFINITELY losing boost response on this because the logs with the wastegate hose pulled are showing 21 psi at 4100 rpms (as opposed to my lazy 4400 that was kinda of spiking at first). This was on the MEDIUM EFR wastegate cannister - now I have the high on and boost onsets even faster. Pumpgas 93 (with the 10% ethanol they have in my area). 2.75L BC stroker New N1 block 86mm bores tomei poncam A 6boost manifold - divided for IWG EFR 8374 EFR .92 IWG divided ported head SS +.5mm valves squish pads removed Hypertune V2 90mm single TB stock intercooler 800cc injectors (at the time, now 850cc) DW 300 pump (at the time...running out of pump on dyno...now as sump and AEM380) Haltech PnP Platinum Pro Fluidampr harmonic balancer Nismo Super coppermix twin clutch Cam gears are '0' '0' (didn't have time to change them yet) Boost 18 dropping to 16-17 on top. Basically this is my "baseline" dyno, but I wanted to share since it's data. Car is very quick on the street and super responsive. I LOVE the turbo! I think with the added timing that I have done street tuning since this the car HAS to be making 500 or more whp.

FYI. Now that my car is on the road and I have about 1000 miles on it, I'll comment on the Nismo Diff. I LOVE IT! Super quiet, after about 500 miles of street driving any noticeable chatter has gone away. There is a slight drag when pulling into driveways or at low speeds and extreme steering angles, but that thing grabs like a cat on carpet on throttle. You'd better have the wheel pointed where you want the car to go on throttle because it almost pulls the car in the direction when it hooks. Incredible unit for the money.