HarrisRacing

Sorry I meant to strikethrough the entire thing. ALL of it include disclaimers from auction sites. They are not law enforcement nor are these laws.

You are doing it again. I went ahead and struck through everything that you posed that was posted as basically a disclaimer from an auction site. I left what is US law. Everything you have posted is "to import a car" and the laws for such. "owning a car that..." has not been covered by you whatsoever other than pure speculation.

GSX-R35 - Best of luck with your title process! Sounds like you are close! I hope I have my junk together by December!

EPA doesn't matter ~ 21 years. As long as the car doesn't DRIVE ON THE ROAD PRIOR to DECEMBER I'm good. NHTSA only applies to cars ON PUBLIC ROADS AND HIGHWAYS. I'm sorry I thought I wrote this above.

More, REAL, TRUE, information. http://web01.dps.louisiana.gov/omv1.nsf/58c968bd569b099986256cdc000806eb/a3520038317614518625667f00589f1c

I just told you this was done. But "don't take my word for it..." Do it yourself HINT - you will get two different answers. But both will agree on one thing. Don't waste any more of my time. Try to help the poor soul that has your cherised docs and NO TITLE. I'm good. And I guess through all of the heartache you have caused I need to thank you for bringing all of this up so I could be assured my car is legal.

No sir...ONLY GOVERNMENT APPOINTED OFFICIALS can issue form 97's. Sorry wrong again read the CFR. The form 97 trumps ALL of the documentation you are asking for.

LOL...guess we will see after a few 20 minute sessions on a road course at 650-700HP. And we are all still waiting on you to tell us, what your company is, where you do your importing at, how many cars you have imported, and if it was done on Forza Motorsports or not.

You (and any website you found indicating this) are incorrect. My car is legal. I called today, provided all of my information to "nancy", who informed me of it. My VIN is registered under a 16 digit seizure number and is LEGALIZED under the CBP under form 97. I am here to correct your lack of knowledge. Forms 3520-1 and HS-7 are both US customs forms for when you import a vehicle. No doubt this is required for legal importation of 25 year old cars. Cars that are seized by any means including illegal imporation follow different rules...some of which include exceptions: Example A - they can be sold "for export only" on a 7512 and can ONLY be transported FROM a storage yard (auction site) to an export boat for export within 60 days of sale. Or in other cases cases the car could have been detained or even used by the government and later issued the RARE Form 97. Form 97 is two things: 1) A sales log of a specific car (VIN number, make, model, etc etc) that is owned by the government to a person for use in commerce and use on public highways - Federal Certificate to Obtain A title (good for ALL 50 states). and... 2) CBP certification that the car is legal for road useage. See...the importation process is NORMALLY the method for notifying the CBP of the imporation and legalization of the car. BUT it can also be done by the federal government (super rare) and in these cases "illegally" imported cars are then "legalized" by the government and then sold for use on highways on form 97. Form 97 is one of the only ways to federally legalize a seized illegally imported car. And ONLY appointed gov't officials can do this (again as described previously in the CFR I posted). So...cease and desist. You are wrong...you made me think I may have done something wrong...I dug into it, made my pertinent phone calls and am informing all that my findings are that my car is 100% legal and it's NOT 25 years old yet. Don't beleive me? CALL THE FEDS...NOT AND IMPORTER. An importer can only tell you about IMPORTING a car...they aren't authorized to make any other decisions. That's what I did. I bet the 25 year rollover for 1990 is going to start going away as a flag in your local DMV's soon and if you don't have to deal with emissions certs and CARB to get your legally imported car title i bet you can easily get a title with an HS-7 or 1320-1. So please stop your childish behavior and name-calling. You have been officially proven wrong and have been spreading misinformation.

Do you live in the USA?

You are sounding like a broken record and that broken record is a song of pure ignorance. I have made the appropriate phone calls, have the appropriate documentation, etc. You have provided no credentials to who you are, current US regulations, nor have you even acknowledged the power of the Form 97 and from the sounds of it...haven't even read it. Do you even live in the US? Have you ever imported a car? Read some articles on Jalopnik, added some links to people who do this for a living? come on man. Give some real credentials. Read the copy of the form 97. You have drastically misinterpreted what it says -- It quite plainly states that the car is transferred for commerce in the US and then read the CFR that I posted regarding the form 97 where it states SOLD FOR USE ON PUBLIC HIGHWAYS. THEN...call ICE, CBP, FBI or whoever you want and ask them about this form and what it does for legal ownership. My car is serialized AND REGISTERED with the CPB as that is what the form 97 has done and I HAVE CONFIRMED THIS (CLEARLY HOLE PUNCHED WITH CPB CERT - how are you denying this?!). Cars auctioned on EXPORT ONLY are issued form 7512 and will ship STRAIGHT from the auction storage to the port of shipping. Under this process, the cars are NOT to be sold in the US for commerce and anyone removing one is considered SMUGGLING. Again, I shouldn't have to tell you this...you should know it already since you are an expert. Be careful what you read on the internet or get a law degree and charge for your advice. I am simply done teaching class on this now. Your fear tactics and misinformation are in attempt to hurt the resale of these cars in the USA (or out of sheer jealousy) and that is clear to me now. I have NO AGENDA for spreading rumors and have followed the letter of the law as it applies to my car...It is not my job to make you understand that. Patrick

Patrick Cajun country, Louisiana Professional Mechanical engineer by day, car enthusiast by night. Also federal firearms licensed dealer and manufacturer. 1990 R32 GTR 1990 MR2 turbo road race car 1977 Porsche 911 road race project I build everything myself

coup de grâce (ko͞o′ də gräs′) n. pl. coups de grâce (ko͞o′) 1. A deathblow delivered to end the misery of a mortally wounded victim. 2. A finishing stroke or decisive event. ************* I made contact with the federal auction holder and they pulled my records based on my Form 97 information. The form 97 is all I needed. It is the CBP clearing and contains the information on it, so my car is completely legal for road use and resale in the US. I should have noticed that the CPB Date and Number was HOLE PUNCHED INTO THE RAISED LETTER SERIALIZED DOCUMENT. You are...in fact, wrong and I am absoutely DONE hearing you spread your internet misinformation. I hope this adds to your EXTENSIVE KNOWLEDGE that there are exceptions to the importation process. Here is a pictured of my redacted form...I hope it makes your day because it makes mine! Patrick

I am agreeing with you 100% about how to legally import a 25 year old car. BUT I am not able to agree or disagree as to how MY car was imported...hell it may be an old motorex car for all you and I know. I am disagreeing with the enforcement side. The enforcement side has focused on people who have INTENTIONALLY imported vehicles illegally. Particularly in bulk for profit with exception of one S15 idiot, who did something totally illegal - AND I highly doubt that he received even a fraction of the maximum punishment - AND HE DID SOMETHING ILLEGAL INTENTIONALLY! The big wig lobbyist are trying to shut the importation of cars that DO NOT pass EPA, NHTSA, and CARB compliance down. I read your examples and found the following: MOTOREX and KAIZO both imported with intent of doing things illegally and skirting existing law and let me explain all of them... MOTOREX - Did extensive pushing and at first was able to add the R33 to the list of importable cars, but then started (illegally) badging EVERY GT-R (R32 and R34) as being an R33. HUGE no-no as they did not fall under "similarity" rules. The owners of these cars were sent letters and grandfathered in...DESPITE the fact that they were not 25 years old! So yes...they WERE ilegally imported with INTENT of breaking law and still these cars were made an exception and exist in the states. KAIZO - Took shells and engines and imported them separately. They "reassembled" the cars into NEW VIN number "kit" cars. This broke all kinds of rules and the judgement states this plainly. The OTHER thing is that even if you get a 25-year-old R32 GTR in California to this day, California (and perhaps other states) requires MORE than the HS-7 and NHTSA documentation...they also require CARB certification - NONE of which these kit cars had because they had engines that were not ever built to meet CARB requirements. IN the kit car world, this is already a hurdle. In both cases you are seeing again AN IMPORTER (trying to exploit "illegal" cars for money) and VERY CLOSELY HELD CLIENTS who knew that not driving a CARB exempted car was going to get them in trouble. And even then, did the cars get crushed or exported or the guys thrown in prison for 20? Find me a judgement and I'll start believeing the internet horror stories. How did that Paul Walker car stay in the states so long then? In my opinion, you are taking advice from a person who worked closely with known crooks in the past. And I'm willing to bet that all of these cases are fueled by lobbyist who's job is to create fear of buying "ILLEGAL" cars (not very unlike what you are doing here). The JUDGEMENT I found online (here) does NOT have my car's VIN number on it. It is one digit off..it REALLY could NOT be my car and technically in a court of law it ISN'T! It just so happens to be in the same state that my car went to auction (according to some web forums) around the same time. It is still PURELY SPECULATION in my mind and as an end user I never would have known whatsoever had some "importer" on the internet started trying to scare me (by posting in my TURBO SELECTION THREAD!). I do not know AT ALL if the car was listed for export, but if you read the judgement and associated fines for doing some "super-illegal importing" you will find that he didn't get 20 and he was in the business of smuggling multiple cars! I'll tell you what if it SMELLS illegal I ain't doing it! But again, I have a document that says the GOVERNMENT ISSUED THIS CAR FOR USE ON A PUBLIC ROAD FOR A TITLE, the Code of Federal Regulations that backs this up, it was purchased from a licensed dealer, and the DMV approved my transaction. I AM GOOD WITH THAT. You continue to spread your E-FEAR and half-truths and I'll enjoy my GTR or have my day in court if the Feds decide one day they made a mistake. You said it...someone in the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT screwed up with my car (maybe?!), but that doesn't mean what I'm doing is illegal. It really means that I can't import my car until it is 25 years old. That means when they come for it, they REALLY are going to have to explain themselves...OR they could go after the Land Rover guys.

You can't discount my form 97! Not a single example of the federal government selling a car to the public for use on public highways and issuing a form 97. Perhaps it was impounded then they wanted some money back so they sold it for use? Either way I DO have supporting documentation of the car being cleared (in some way) by the federal government. Which under no terms states "for export only". There simply must be exceptions. In your world of absolutes, where do the motorex cars that are not 25 years old fall?

Imo, your "should never have issued form 97 and was used to launder the car" comment is speaking your opinion of it and I have not found a single seized example of a car that had this documentation. The very simple fact is that the government issued this documentation at some point, which specifically allows the car to be sold for use on public roads, and tells me it was a legal process whether you agree with (in our speculation) how it was imported. You keep comparing my car's acquisition to several examples which are CLEARLY linked to intentionally smuggling cars (through various forms) to direct clients. I'm not in this case whatsoever and the other thing you must realize is the intent of persons involved in these cases and the high profile nature of such. Keep in mind this was not a bonded title. It was a federal certificate to receive a title which IMO (and the DMV manager that I showed the documentation to) trumps any past importation issues (assuming there were any). So I am sticking to my story but I would appreciate if you would drop the "your car is here illegally" because the honest answer is you do not know how it was imported. All you can logically deduce is that "the process was not typical" in the importing procedure. And likely difficult to replicate. That, I do think, is the final answer I am staying with.

No dereg...no clue what you are talking about. Purchased on a louisiana title and went to a louisiana title. That's it. Thought I was 100% legal. I really had to dig (per your input) to find out otherwise. And IMO I'm still not liable. The money is on the engine stand anyway! I'll read up on kaizo

Mine, and the one before mine, were both registered Louisiana titles. The picture of the form 97 is a picture the previous owner sent me. He needed that to get the title. He was also once removed from his acquisition from previous owner. There is no engine in the car currently and has likely not been driven since 2007. Original was trashed (mega rod knock), new one is 100% new parts including block. I have everything but it's not going back together...I would need a complete longblock likely. I think for some reason ICE would be much more reasonable than requiring import/export. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems like someone should have caught this car and forced exportation LOOOONG ago. And this is all IF my process wasn't legal. I can tell yoh without a doubt everything I have done has been 100% legal.

And also. No one has clarified where the form 97 fits in my story or how. What role would this have played? Is it actually the same thing as a federally bonded title? I thought those were different?

Oh boy...read my build thread. We may be going backwards on my build should I need to redo all of this paperwork. Car wasn't running when I got it. I'd have to install twins? Will a single cut it? Damn...install a cat? Mega-effing-pita if I decide to go through with this. Also on the export/import, what exactly would be required? I still feel like I have a case for "this was acquired legally" but you guys have lots of questions I can't answer. Good news is it's never been on the road yet.

Doesn't it need to appear "relatively stock?" You need to read my build thread Also does it need the original block? Ok this is what I gathered thus far: 1) EPA exemption is 21 years...and a required 3520-1. But that form is only required FOR legal importation. Can the EPA even do anything now (assuming this wasn't filed)? How would I (or any other buyer down the line) know this? 2) NHTSA is 25 years from DATE of manufacture with associated HS-7 form. Again how do I know this was done? Can they even enforce after the 25 years? 3) If items 1 and 2 above are done in order to receive a title and registration, then after 25 years is up and you have a title...what's the worry? Are you sure I still have to import export just because I don't know the history. Keep in mind EVERYTHING we are talking about is about legal importation. I didn't have ANYTHING to do with the importation and I'm pretty sure someone paid this penalty (asshole A) previously. I have no clue who or how asshole B did what he did. Again the judgement I found online didn't have my exact VIN...so this is literally purely speculation. So...in all, what do you "get" when you LEGALLY import a car? I've never been involved in this. Again thanks for the fair conversation.

Also I'm still standing by my claim that my car is legal. Honestly it may have been legally imported. I did some more research on my car: Looks like it could have been seized. Maybe even judgement against it (my car's VIN would be 1 digit off on an EPA judgement - and an easy typo if so - HOW STUPID!?) and labelled for exportation or destruction in early 2007. They had 30 days to destroy or export the the lot of cars and it would be witnessed by the EPA. Then I see that it came up for dealer auction in 5-2007?! Perfectly fine condition and NOT destroyed?! Then I see that the government released the car in 10-2007 on a FORM 97 "United States Government Certificate to Obtain Title to a Vehicle" from a (I assume government-funded?) corporation that clearly had possession of the vehicle. This form (according to CFR-1998-title41-vol2 sec101-38.701 - attached) is used when the government owns a vehicle and is selling to the public FOR HIGHWAY USE. Excerpt below: § 101–38.701 Transfer of title for Government-owned motor vehicles. (a) When disposing of a Government owned vehicle, all executive agencies shall comply with the provisions listed below for transfer of ownership: (1) All Government-owned motor vehicles to be titled by State motor vehicle activities shall be transferred by executing Standard Form (SF) 97, The United States Government Certificate to Obtain Title to a Vehicle. The use of this form in foreign countries is optional. (2) SF 97 will be used only when motor vehicles owned by the Government are sold to parties who intend to title the vehicle for operation on highways. Vehicles that are either not designed to operate on highways or are deemed as not legal for operation on highways will be conveyed using an appropriate bill of sale or award document, such as Optional Form 16, Sales Slip-Sale of Government Personal Property, or SF 114, Sale of Government Property-Bid and Award. Vehicles commonly included in this category include construction equipment, farm machinery, and certain military design vehicles. So according to your logic the government issues this Form 97 upon release from their possession post government seizure? But that doesn't make sense to me because the Form 97 transfers vehicles from government ownership specifically for highway use... Is it possible that the government kept the car and used it for something? Perhaps they found that they could make more money certifying them for public use and issuing them for sale at auction? Again, I can't see them selling something at auction with a certificate to obtain title (specifically to operate on highways) and not allowing someone to do so. ALSO form 97 says NOTHING about "for export or destruction only". So I think my chain is: Car imported late 2006 Car intercepted and seized January 2007 - settlement issued to destroy all cars or export within 30 days. Car auctioned 5-2007?? Not sure if this happened but I read it online Car is transferred from a government-ish corpopration on Form 97 in 10-2007 My local dealer gets car and registers to them I get car from dealership and it HAS a title in my state I register car in my state (which they would ONLY do with the certificate to issue title). Perhaps there are exceptions? Perhaps someone exported and RE-IMPORTED the car in that year time frame?! Why would the gov't be involved with the Form 97? (I highly doubt this is part of the typical "smuggling" process.) Also I researched and I totally agree about the date...month being extremely important. So no...my car isn't 25 years old yet...but it definitely wasn't in 2007 when the form 97 was issued. And yes it was likely seized at some time...but doesn't appear to have been "for exportation or destruction". Patrick CFR-1998-title41-vol2-sec101-38-701.pdf

Since you are clearly knowledgable of the laws...what are the repurcussions of such against me or the original seller/purchaser? Furthermore, how would ANYONE know how a car is/was legally imported in the chain after me? Is EVERYONE involved in violation? This simple fact could seemingly crush the entire importation of vehicles altogether. You just stated that this car (to our limited knowledge of it's existence here) is in a state of total limbo as far as being able to register it legally (seemingly forever), and that I am in some way in violation of federal laws, but how was I supposed to know all of this? Furthermore, should I decide to SELL the car, how would anyone else be liable for it? So now I could either file suit against the line of people before me who bought/sold the car (which will surely get this car removed forever), or I can keep driving it and take my chances that one day I will have to explain that I bought it at a dealership. What are the statute of limitations on illegally importing a vehicle and on ownership? This is still all assuming that some guy on the internet (no offense, you seem very knowledgeable) is actually correct in his facts about stateside ownership of these vehicles. Thanks.

Hi. I'll go ahead and put this out there...taking a risk per se, but I was sure that I had done all of my previous research for the car that I bought. I did NOT import my car, nor did the car dealer that I bought it from. My car had a FEDERAL BONDED title. I think this is a different scenario than just "someone snuck this car into the US and hid it in a barn for 25 years". It was apparently sold at federal auction by a company that handles the sales of federally owned (maybe even confiscated) property. The car was sold at auction in 2007. I purchased the car late in 2014, but before I did I took copies of all documentation to my DMV and was told directly that a FEDERAL BONDED title trumps everything in the USA. This title was issued by the corporation that sold this car at auction initially. How to get one, however, I can't help you with as I wasn't involved in that. Like I said, the government at one point owned this car and then sold it to a car dealer at auction, so I HIGHLY doubt there is a legal standpoint for the government to confiscate my car and to pursue criminal charges as it would technically be considered ENTRAPMENT. I got insurance, applied for title, and received my plate. It is currently still under the knife since I got the car with a rod knock and it has never been driven on a public road yet. I start a build thread here, ask a few questions...then get attacked for owning the car which IS by technical definition 25 years old now. My car is a December of 1990 car...and in the USA the build MONTH has nothing to do with car's age as it is not on any title or registration that I'm aware of. They are all universally year of manufacture with a birth date of Jan 1. I don't import cars, but SURELY this is a case for argument in the court of law with car dating/model/year etc. So I have car that was here prior to the 25 year importation rule...but it's not a BARN HIDE car...it has a solid paper trail. So, the recommendation came to EXPORT, then REIMPORT my car since it was suggested to be government-issued 'contraband' (which I do not agree with). You tell me what's going to draw more red flags...exporting contraband, or driving it fully registered, insured and licensed car that has a crystal clear federal paper trail? Really the problem is that there is no grandfather clause to the 25-year rule. If they add that, it will clear up a LOT of issues with my situation although it doesn't change anything with the standard importation process.

Added a comparison of the following: 2.75L engine 8375 cast compressor w/ .91 AR T4 housing (76mm turbine, 60mm compressor) 8374 EFR w/ .92 IWG (74mm turbine, 61.4 billet compressor) 7670 EFR w/ .92 IWG (70mm turbine, 57mm billet compressor) One graph at 19 psi the other at 21. Both the 8375 and the 7670 EFR are out of breath on this motor at high rpms and cannot sustain the boost. Still for a $600 turbo, the 8375 is really showing how nice it is, but the 8374 EFR is still the king of the powerband on this setup. One thing to note...I also compared the new FMW (billet) compressors in the Airwerks turbo with these and found exterme similarities between them. I'm SURE the EFR's are better and spool better and transient response is better, but the compressor and turbine maps plot extermely similar to the following: 7670 EFR .92 IWG = S200SX 57mm FMW w/ 1.00 (or maybe .88) housing 8374 EFR .92 IWG = S300SX 62mm FMW w/ .91 AR Basically there are your journal bearing comparisons. But after you add the Wastegate and recirc valve, you are getting back up in the ballpark of EFR's and might as well get the technology. So the comparison is starting to show for me: 8374 EFR .92 IWG ~ $2300 S300SX FMW 62 w/ .91 EWG ~ $1150 + $400 wg + $150 BOV = 1700 S300SX cast 60mm w/ .91 EWG ~$600 + $400 wg + $150 BOV = 1150