MerlinTheHapyPig

^ yep. you look at the costs of the motec, ($3k+ for the base M600 unit), then you have to buy a whole heap of sensors to actually use all the features. Sooo expensive!

interesting read paul. good work (where did you get all the data from?) we've talked about MAP verses AFM alot recently though i don't really think the argument of "loose load point resolution when reached target boost" plays that much importance in the scheme of things. For 3 reasons 1- I've noticed when running map traces that the stock ecu is reading more or less from the same load column when at full boost, so just becuase the load *can* show differences in air flow at full boost, it doesn't really need to (because load cell doesn't change with afm reading anyway) 2- Keep in mind at full boost, even if load axis won't change, RPM axis still changes, so the progression in cells across the rev range allows you to make adjustments under these conditions. The only time this would present a problem is when holding a constant RPM and load is changing, I can't really think of a situation where this might matter unless say, you select 5th instead of 3rd and car takes a while to build up revs and lastly 3 - Motec and other top ecu's use MAP as the primary load sensor. Infact Power fc's are the only ecu's i can think of that use afm as standard. So, my belief is that there is nothing wrong with using an ECU that uses a MAP sensor, (mainly due to reason 3, but I have put some thought into this), and whilst the powerfc is probably one of the best value for money ecu's on the market for all-round performance, there are many others to choose from which are better (though mightn't be as easy to install) And on another note, noone has any hard evidence that MAP sensors are bad anyway, it's getting a little annoying seeing all this anti-MAP stuff going around!!!

quality of rose joint.. I'm no expert, but there are several factors, basically the material and casting quality of the ball and housing, some have a race, some are raceless Some wear faster than others, are poorly lubricated and i've seen housings break. Buy ones which are specified for motorsport use and you'll be fine. The cheapo justjap/no name brands are usually fairly crappy, but you get what you pay for. "brand name" jap brands are probably better but who knows! the ones i'm using have a nice solid body construction, if you put a good bearing in them they are great. (even the cheapest replacement rod end you can buy ~$15-20 looks better than some of the jap brands) Infact i broke one myself during a fairly nasty accident which involved hitting a ripplestrip front-on (this is what drove me to replace the bearings with something decent... though probably any rod end would do this after being hit hard enough) In general, the more you pay the better! you can pay over $100 for a rod end.

i find the cheaper / generic castor rods to be better, because usually the rose joints are standard sizes and you can get much better quality bearings for them, ie teflon bearings. (i.e. hit up http://www.linearbearings.com.au/ to find info on better quality rod ends for automotive use) I don't think Tien/cusco have standard sizes, which is why i've avoided them. Bearings are a wear and tear component and should be checked regularly. (the rod ends www.garage-13.com sell as "dmax castor rods" are the ones i'm talking about they use standard 16L metric rod ends 16mm left hand thread)

maybe they haven't connected the lines to the stock BOV properly

^ yeah drift button, fairly simple. you remove the spring that holds the button up. And slip the handbrake button over the original button, so you have a lip to pull up the handbrake to lock it. I don't bother, i just use the handbrake without the cover on, because i find as you pull the handbrake, the cover (the thing you're trying to get off) slips up and locks the handbrake on.. which is very annoying when drifting coz you just do this violent spin and leave nice flat spots on your tyres....

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=122054 ^ have a read of this thread, there is some interesting discussion on aftermarket ECU's and Auto's

ok... ^ this is stock ecu (actually this is rb20det, but they are both similar) with the top board removed. the chip circled in red is the ROM, if the rom is soldered to the board, then it is a stock chip. (mine stock ecu chip has MEC-R126 8RY108 written on a silver sticker on it). If your chip is in a socket, then it is rechipped. Often re-chips will also have a sticker with a tuning shop on them.

see in first pic, bottom left, you can see the edge of a chip underneath that circuit board. That's the rom chip (28 pin rom), if that is soldered onto the board, then it's a stock ecu (well probably), if it's a socket, then it's definantly a remap.

by the sounds of things.... as long as you don't drive an auto. you'll be ok with either ;-)

unlikely to be fuel pump. it sounds afm related, so i'd be finding out what settings were changed on the SAFC that started this happening. Or get the mechanic who changed it to take a look.

getting A/F ratio checked shouldn't be too much trouble. Just go to anywhere with a dyno and ask for a "power run with AFR printout". They will put a wideband o2 sensor in the exhaust and log the AFR while doing the power run. I'd say it's been remapped. If they handn't, you'd probably feel it driving, if the car would even start at all. Maybe ask the previous owner what he did? This is probably good! it means your car probably have a tuned ecu, and rb20det afm's are much better than rb26dett afm's but in any case, unless you can find out from previous owner, go get a dyno run asap.

maybe we should get the mods to make a separate forum for "tuning and electronics" or something? there seems to be a large number of these sorts of threads popping up. Who do we talk to about that idea?

yep, that's an rb20det afm it's not the correct type of afm, to run it properly, the ecu needs to be remapped. If the car runs fine with no noticable problems, then it probably has been remapped or has a piggyback ecu of some description (eg. SAFC, emanage etc.), or full aftermarket computer. get it on the dyno asap to check your AFR's (it's a good idea anyway once you buy a car to check afr's), but if it's running without any noticable problems then you are probably ok. how is it set up with the single afm? are there still 2 intakes and one afm on one of the intakes and no afm on the other? or do you have a single intake system setup? or do you have 2 x rb20det afms? rb20det afm's are better than rb26dett afm, so it's probably been done to allow for better piping.

what colour is the sticker? edit... that is a rb20det afm / rb25det afm (it will have green sticker) i'd say your ecu is remapped or tuned for the afm if it's running ok.

i always though rising rate fpr's made it easier to tune. oh well go carby, pretty simple tuning. 1 screw for rich/lean one screw for idle..... then you just wind the dizzy out to advance the timing (joking) load points aren't everyhing, as long as there are enough to tune the car then you should be alright. I mean, motec have 40x21 maps, wolf have larger maps, doesn't mean it's a better ecu.... (well wolf have more rpm points, slightly less load points, but you get the idea) 16x16 minimum (as long as you can extend the maps, change rpm and load points etc.) is plenty of resolution to tune with. I mean nissan engineers obviously thought that it was enough....

edited... i take that back. you're right, the fcon v pro is the standalone version of the fcon.... car i was using had the standard fcon. In any case, reverting to stock ecu is fairly straight forward if you run into trouble...

sk, you make a good point about only one tuner i've driven a car with an fcon, but being in melbourne, we took it out and replaced it with a powerfc. the fcon retains the stock ecu, perhaps it still retains the stock ecu's control over the auto transmission. if you get stranded in melbourne, if you have an afm and stock injectors, it's relatively simple to swap it back to standard (all you do is unplug the fcon, change injectors, plug afm back in and she's ready to go -- though rb injectors are bitches to get too compared with SR20). If you had the parts, the cost of getting a workshop to do it would be similar to the cost of getting a tuning shop to work out the problem. - having said all that... i'd be very sceptical about using ANY ecu where i don't have the cable/software to tune it myself!!! I think fcon's are a viable option for someone living in sydney, they have very nice feature set and people who use them in japan love them. however i'd never ever use one myself (living in melbourne) unless i can get my hands on the software/hardware to tune them somehow

bd4s' in sydney don't charge that much for a tune. in fact their tuning prices are comparable to most workshops tuning wolf/powerfc etc. I think it was around the $5-600 for full tune with aftermarket turbo, aftermarket injectors etc. on sr20det from memory when i spoke to them a couple of months ago (of course you would have to talk to them yourself to get a quote...) motec m600 is around $3,500 for the base unit.... Then pay for tuning, and any sensors or setup etc. I don't think it's gonna be cheaper!!!!!

i found this comparision between apexi powerfc and hks fcon pro from http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthre...?t=37497&page=2 worth a read, Just keep in mind in most states, you can't get them tuned... sorry if this is a bit off-topic... and the big post... i'd also like to add, that with hks pro dealers who tune fcon's, they have to go through a very vigerous process to get the software, which i think involves going to japan and being taught how to tune from the experts. So you are pretty much gauranteed that your tuner will be very capable if they are a hks pro dealer. Unlike some tuning shops i've seen who tune powerfc's, and they really don't know what they are doing.

speak to bd4s in sydney. They are basically the only workshop that has the software and hardware to tune FCon's in Australia, and i've spoken to them on the phone about tuning, and I got a very good impression from the conversation I had (they were able to answer all my questions and were very helpful). They should be able to tell you how they run on automatics. I assume you've already spoken to them though! Apart from limited availability, they are fantastic ecu's. Much better than powerfc, wolf3d. They have a really cool feature which automatically set's AFR's (it reads wideband o2 sensor input and automatically adjust fuel map to get a specific afr), 32x32 maps and a crapload of other features. In Japan they are very highly regarded. The main disadvantage is the software and hardware to tune is only available to certified hks dealers, so you can't tune them yourselves!

^ yes you can use consult i have an interface that i use for exactly that. I was just being general! i don't think that really changes the argument in any case. One of the features that is very useful on powerfc's are the knock sensor. I have pondered if there is a way to build something similar using the stock knock sensor... wolf3d has some pretty neat closed loop control options actually. I was just reading through the manual the other day. I'm not sure if powerfc has this, but i know it does use closed loop for fuel economy when cruising. wolf3d also has a builtin turbo timer, can support different load sensors (eg. afm/map/tps etc.) and support for a secondary load sensor. The idle control settings has more stuff on wolf by the looks of things they have similar features, but the wolf unit seems to have more settings for each thing (eg. idle control, boost control, closed loop etc.), and if you're like me and like to tweak things i'd find it an advantage. But it also would mean they are harder to setup. ------- IF you are getting a workshop to tune it for you, find a workshop you are comfortable with, and see what ECU's they tune, and recommend. There is no point going Wolf3d v4 if there are no good workshops nearby that tune them. There are enough bad tuning workshops I know of, that would make me very particular when choosing a tuner that I can trust.

^ yes, look at the picture in the link above to the offset calculator. This explains all!

who did the rebuild? take it back and ask them...

main differences: -Wolf3d uses a MAP sensor, Powerfc Uses the car's AFM (some argument over which is better, however wolf can be setup to use AFM. Powerfc can't use MAP unless you get djetro version) -Wolf3d maps have 16 load axis and rpm points every 125 rpm (so between 0 and 8000rpm, it's 16x64) -PowerFC maps are 20x20 -wolf has wideband o2 sensor built in which is very handy for data logging and tuning (you still have to buy the sensor itself, but not the interface etc.) Both have similar features... Look, with aftermarket ecu's, as long as you can change fuel and timing, they all more or less do the same thing. In a lot of cases, performance from and aftermarket ecu is more dependant on the tuner. It's hard to really say one is better than the other. To put it in perspective, anything you can do with a powerfc, you can do by remapping the stock ecu (with the exception of data logging, hand controller readouts, aux out's of course...)