GeeTR

By all means, light hearted pot stirring is wot the best discussions are all about! LoL No place though, for the 30, as in head flow. I was more comparing the classic stroke'y nature of the SR with the iron block / 6 / cam on shim RB. Combining attributes. These discussions always get me thinking bout actually making my dream engine. A custom I6 block, CNC cut from chunk of $5000 alloy. Design your own water jackets, use a head similar to the 2JZ though with conventional intake on drivers side, exhaust on passenger, with a way under square billet crank, though closer to 3L capacity. Magine then bolting that to one of the best production car 4WD around... ATTESA... If only the $$$ arrgh, zzZzzZ time - M

Owdy I’m super glad this thread didn’t dissolve into everyone grading RB’s as the wholly more superior option on the basis of its classic straight 6 trumpet note Lifters and rockers are good examples of issues in the low to medium power levels I feel, only in the upper echelons does crank tunnel trueness and cylinder sleeve rigidity crop up. I love the SR as a motor, as I love the 350z… that is I don’t, but I respect the fact it fiscally brought Nissan back from the brink of bankruptcy, loosing light RWD cars like the Silvia’s were unfortunate causalities. The SR20DET wore many hats and allowed many interesting cars to be created, GTiR, Bluebird and some 4WD thing in Japland I forget the name of. What I’m slowly trying to get at though, is that in the long run, and long receipt world, pouring cash into a SR doesn’t haven’t have a high rate of return when your talking serious power. Saying the SR is a better motor as it makes more power for less $$ in the initial stages, is like rocking up to the Iron Chief, loosing, and proclaiming with a frothy scream that the Chicken flavored Magi Noodles was the ace choice due to prep time  I’m not so sure bout those that say the HLA and rockers are fine for sub 9K red line limits. I agree, you can get away with running much deeper lift (oxy-moron) cams without head mods; I think this is a downfall as iv heard of many people bending, fracturing rockers with 270 / 11mm cams. I haven’t done myself, though I’m lead to believe that little relief of the RB head is required to fit 10.5mm+ lift cams, surely not an issue when you take into consideration all the work that people doing to even $6K rebuilds. SR’s never win over the RB in my books, in terms of medium to higher power ( with reliability in mind) What it does do, is produce a lot of bang for your “initial” buck ( refer to previous thread comment on being able to spool turbos that a RB20 would have issues with) and is available in many exciting chassis’s. At the expense of another awful analogy, and or coming across like im a “know it all auto engineer / street racer twat” I rest my case. Two VERY different motors with clear boundary’s of capability and automotive social inequity. … *ponders* “What swarf I can come up with, Feeck, Id stand up for that sweet harmonic 1/3 360o trumpet note any day…” *cough - shuffle* -Michael

I was talking about the square bore x stroke at 86mm in I6 configurations; meaning a 25/26 head on 30 block. Sorry if confusing, obviousally the 30 head has no place in this discussion - Was in no way comparing a RB to a 2JZ M

What an expansive question you’ve posted  I believe most of the attributes to each motor are fairly obvious and it clearly depends on preference in driving style, power delivery and use for the platform. You ask what makes the SR a contender against a RB and I think it’s the weight and bore x stroke. The SR is quiet lopey, and square with a 86x86 bore x stroke. This long stroke gives them the ability to pull around heavier then std host chassis’s like R32’s Ceffys and the like. The amount of air they move at low RPM’s means also, you can get away with putting some fairly large frame and wheeled turbos on them. People assume the alloy block of the SR is significantly lighter, though in reality it needs a thicker casting to increase strength, and a crank girdle; im told the weight difference is 40kg. Its real benefit is that its weight is further back, closer to the firewall. The torque they deliver for drifting and spooling turbos, combined with their weight distribution makes them a mighty good package. Both 20 and 25 have a close stroke length of 69.7mm and 71.7mm, their respective capacities come from their differing bore width of 78mm and 86mm. Naturally with less distance to cover, piston speeds are down, with the 20 having substantially less weight which is going to decrease tension loads on the rods. This plus the fact the RB has a “real” valve train system of cam on shim means they will always take to higher / sustained revs better then the rockers of a SR. Physically being able to spread the output power / combustion pressures over more metal and componentry it think adds to their ability to stay in a higher state of tune a lot longer then a SR. Cleary each motor has its own niche. Due to the RB length and way it distributes its weight, putting one into a chassis like Silvia its always going to slightly upsets its handling; turn in response etc, though this might not concern many drivers. If one has the money though, I think its hard to beat a SR in a high state of tune with GT35, massive cams, maybe a stroke increase. Is the SR20 the best 4cyl? Not a chance. I still hold the 4G63 and 3SGTE in high regard. Iv read about dozens of near 1000hp 4G’s in the states. Nissan made some sacrifices using the alloy block ( weight and block temperature control. Read: emissions) and rockers ( upper engine head dimensions, so as to fit into a larger variety of cars) Treading a little out of the scope of this discussion comes the question. What if the RB had the bore & stroke of a SR? Enter the RB30 and 2JZ. Unfortunately at this type of crank load I believe the 2JZ a better engine, what with tougher crank journals and a superior stock head design, enter common streetcar combo’s like 3.4L stroker + GT47-88@40psi + 100shot for 1440hp@treads.... >> http://wotm.com/videos.html Weight characteristics aside, I believe a RB is truly a superior motor and fits my idea of what a high performance engine is about, revs and more revs  - M

Bump Bump Bump Reduced Prices

Hey Sayajin, Would suggest a diagram of what your describing. A thread on setting up a system to run duel fuels and maps would be interesting. Having to wait for the surge to empty would be a pain though. Might have a think about it tonight Good luck! M

Man, i there with you. Mines been off the road for.. *gulp* 12 months. Have a mass of power steering lines to re-route, 12v feeds to run through the cabin, engine oil cooler to finish lining up... all waiting till i can get my tahbin and m.fold - i LONG for the sound of the RB again It can often be hard to get under the gurl in the ever colder nations capital, to be covered in PS fluid. At the moment im on a raising rate dose of HiOctane / JDM vids, plus 80's Rally docos' and rides in mates fast rides Almost there, have faith man M

Hey Michael, Sure do. Came off the boat with a rusted out 3.5", that was almost falling off = 112dB Put a PEII on tried again, and was much better at 98dB, which they "were" going to pass me for, but then i backed off, anit popped a 107dB on the overrun If the PFC was in it then, i could just tweak the fuel at those values, or decel settings. Alas, I then gota rear section made up that proved legal at 76dB or something ridiculous. Conclusion: They are louder then you are allowed, but once past rego i think your fine, as they ARE a v.quiet system. I would suggest theres no way you would get pulled over due to noise. A point to note as well, i have two turbos and more twist and turns in the (stock) front section then those running a GTST. I actually think its too quiet I think most RBs have a resonance tone at 2800-3200rpm ( about where Dickson ask you to rev it to) so this isn't really as loud as other setups that would register 98dB When i get the 4" from turbo to cat, I might think bout making up a 4" rear section too. Will let you know if your keen on grabbing a 2nd hand system at some stage. Sorry for long reply ( I thought there was to be no chit chat in this thread? - hope it helps - M

Hey there, I think you'll find that sensor in the cat temp sensor is only hooked up to the dash light, its not fed into any system meaning it being on or off would have no impact on the engines running. I think somethings creating the heat in the cat, like over fueling, which will turn the light on, Maybe the hot, melted cat is causing the missing. Maybe check the ECU for error codes. Cheers

!! Hahah, same here hahah

Hey All, Getting rid of some gear to make room for new parts. Dont live in Canberra? Inquire All parts from a BNR32 - 440cc injectors X6 [cleaned and flow tested only 2000km's ago] = $400 - Rail and FPR [fine working order] = $150 $100 - BNR32 turbos (98km's) <-- ( shown in avatar) [blown a turbo?, wanna save $ for N1's but need car back on road ASAP?] x2 = $350 $250 each $400 for both - Exhaust manifolds x2 = $200 $100 each - Exhaust from turbos > CAT = $100 $50 - All intake piping, AFM > turbo > inter cooler = $250 $175 $120 - EVERYTHING in a R32 HICAS setup, lines, solenoids, rack EVERYTHING = $300 $200 Negotiable, PM me - Michael

BNR32 Dead stock bar, - PFC - Nismo AFM's - K&N's (dirty) - Trust PEII cat back (80mm) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bits - GT35 Hybrid, - 6boost manifold, 60mm gate - Blitz ID III - 4" zhaust from turbo to cat (then PEII) - 044 in tank, dedicated +12v feed, twin feed rail, 700cc SARD's, SARD FPR - Relocate battery to boot, full +12v feed to 044 - JUN 260 cams - Ogura twin plate - HICAS lock bar, cooler loop, all lines removed - Battery relocate to boot - Coilovers - Defi's - Billet oil filer remount & cooler

How many KM's? or am i blind? My lil bro needs a first car! hrrm......

Big Ass diesels huh? Maybe you accidentally used the same torque’ing figures? Just kidding - You were all thinking it M

Farrk me, thats incredible!! Theres a fair deal of webbed alloy meat in the snout. Condolences M

Clearly i was feeling a little "special" last night, and looking through the site, not the FAQ. Well Paul's example is about as clear cut as they get. That, along with the old RX7 manual, plus comments from others... to me thats definitive! Time to kick some tuner ass Thanks as always for all thoughts and help!! M

Whoah, i watched 30 views on this thread in 24 hours, then check it now, and 100+ and 10 responses THANKS! Let me pull the reigns in a little. Im not so much talking about the precise setting of injector correction nor latency, its if larger injectors generally need a Positive or a Minus latency setting. In the example i gave, a mates SR20 with double sized injectors, the tuner used a minus value, whereas if i read the manual, it should be a positive number made up from the new injector time - stock injector time.. giving a POSITIVE number ( me would have thought) Thats my question. Thanks DivHunter, i didn't know one could get a definitive answer of inj lag from a injector flow bench setup ( as i also don't know the exact latency of the SARDs i have) As for if the latency is more in a larger injector... well i would have thought it was clear that a higher flowing unit, would need a larger hole, and a higher spring pressure keeping the pintle seated, therefore causing more "Injector Latency" Flame away As for the injector scaling debate, I think I'll scale it as close as I can, to keep close loop on cruise, and then just tune the higher values. PaulR33, i searched your site solid, though cant find the "advanced tuning" manual Although Microtech's and other don't have the setting, Haltech and Motecs do, which leads me to believe theres some importance in setting it correctly... even if most multi point / sequential injecton setups go batch fire after 4000rpm. Please keeps the thoughts comming!! Q: "Is the setting the Positive delta between the new and stock injector latency times??? M

Hey Friends, I posted this in the NS.com forums, but thought this is totally aplicable here, as said, this effects my setup too. Please see attached which is from the Apexi PFC RX7 online guide that everyones seen (Bottom right hand corner) I have a mate, who's tuner used minus numbers (-0.04) i believe, when using SARD 740cc's on a SR20. Now from all the literature iv found, plus reading around on forums like these http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=50277 It seems pretty clear that going injectors double the size, would need settings like 50% for the size and PLUS (+0.04) numbers for the lag time. Seriousally, any help would of massive help!! Im 99% of the A:, would just like some HC acknowledgment of the setting. THANKS!!! Michael

Noone, Slotting --> Fairly self explanatory, tis when you need it to fit, but cant be F'd or don't need to make a new bracket... so you drill / file out to fit Scuze paintshop work

Go biggest you can. Considering your current mild setup, keep the 4" cat back, grab a 3.5" Turbo > Cat section. If your planning big numbers later on, then a diff m.fold / turbo will require new front section anyway. - M

It in itself doesn't do harm, but has a few spin off effects. The faster ramp increases your chances of a spike past your desired boost threshold, which is going to hurt if youv tuned it on the limit, and another 3 psi at 7k rpm is going to detonate. Also it can be hard to tune the point where it does ramp quickly and cause undesired fueling situations; though i think this is more of an issue for much larger then stock setups So to A: as long as your AF ratios are cool in this new condition, you'll be ok - M

Your crazy! Jokes Bout the temp thing. I too initially thought it would be an issue, though the stock setup does fine on both a 40 degree day / 3 degree day. Although i haven't yet taken steps to stick the AFM in the IC piping, i would rather that way, then trying to make distance between AFM and turbo mouth.

Your kidding?? Zeh f*k - it was hardly even open yah? ... damm cbr M

Groper, What RPM are these laggy WOT gear changes occurring at ?