hrd-hr30

entry costs are normally $66 - its the best value motorsport around. MG Car Club own (and built) the facility themselves so the overheads are very low. they have a class for awd turbos which normally has lots of very fast WRXs, a couple of Evos and the occassional GTR and one GTI-R Pulsar. You need a CAMS L2S licence. Actually, there is a Come and Try Day on February 5 which would be perfect for anyone a bit curious about the place. I think they charge something like $25 for that and no CAMS licence required. They have experienced competitors there as instructors too, who will ride with you in the car to show you the ropes. I'll probably be there for the Test and Tune that afternoon - hopefully it will be dry this time! I'm with SPARC (Surfer's Paradise Auto Racing Club) who aren't very big or active anymore, but have cheap $30 membership.

if anyone is interested in competing in the Hillclimb series at Mt Cotton, registration opens Friday 20th January with the following event dates: Rd1 Mar 26 Rd2 Apr 30 Rd3 Jul 9 Rd4 Aug13 Rd5 Sept 24 Rd6 Dec 3 I saw from the results that a R32 GTR entered the last hillclimb in '05, and won the awd turbo class. Not sure who it was, or if they are on SAU because that was the same weekend I was at Bathurst for the Speed Weekend. Hopefully he'll enter the series for next year. You can do individual events there too if you want, depending on how many series registered entries thay get for the round. Other significant Hillclimb events: QHC QLD Hillclimb Championship Mt Cotton June 3-4 AHC Aust. Hillclimb Championship Bathurst Nov 3-5 I'm definitely entering the Mt Cotton series, and may do the AHC depending on what hillclimb they run (and my finances). I wouldn't bother going for the Esses Hillclimb again, but Mountain Straight Hillclimb is awesome.

that's probably about right. The DR30 is the most significant model in Aus, most performance oreiented, and most desireable because of their Japanese street cred. I think the later is more relevant to most people who buy them in here. I've been trying to sell my HR30 for a little while and had no idea how much to put on it, so I started high at $7000 and dropped it to $5500 the second time I advertised it, and there's still no interest in it. I think I'll just hang onto it. It looks great, drives well, and I've always liked them since I was a kid and saw one parked at the local shopping centre and wondered what it was... So it's probably worth more to me than what I'd get for it (in terms of how much I like it, not how much I've spent). As ghostrider said, they're only really worth anything to an enthusiast who particularly likes/wants a HR30. And despite the rarity of PNV's, they don't seem to be highly sought after mainly because they aren't particularly common knowledge - I've never heard of them before I found this site, and I've always been into Datsuns. Of course, if you can find the right sucker - sorry, buyer - that all changes. Chances are the people who respond to an ad for a HR30 PNV, won't even know what those last initials stand for.

try a motorkhana or two first. They cost a lot less than $140 - in QLD a round of the QLD motorkhana series costs about $20 to enter! and you'll get all the sideways fun you can handle in a very safe envirnoment. It will definitely improve your car control and give you more confidence before you start drifting at higher speeds on the track. And you don't need any mods.

I bought a set of Simex SM8000 225/50*16 for my HR30 recently for $130ea, so it should be somewhere around that.

I definitely agree with the principle. I 'only' run 225/50*16 semi-slicks on my GTR on the standard rims for track days. Sure a set of 245-255 17" race rubber would be a bit better, but I just didn't see it justifying the additional cost. i have to disagree about why people run lower pressures though. in a drag racing situation I guess you mean? They are doing it to increase the size of the contact patch, and more importantly to make the contact patch longer which will help straight line traction. maybe that is what you menat by "make the tyre much softer"? Notice that drag racers tend to fit the tallest tyre they can? That's also because it lengthens the contact patch. don't confuse the rubber compound with sidewall construction. you can have a very soft compound on a very stiff construction, as is the case with most semi-slicks, or very soft compound and soft sidewall as it normally the case on DOT drag tyres. For normal street radials the same is the case, but all sidewalls are at the softer end of the scale, and compounds at the higher end of the scale. For the record, I agree Simex are a pretty good road tyre at a very good price. The bigger name brand tyres street are not much better IMHO, and hurt the hip-pocket alot more. SOme cheap tyres are actually very good. And others are simply rubbish.

at the risk of being accussed of always disagreeing with everyone, more track is not always a good thing. changing track affects your scrub radius. too much and it can make the car darty under brakes and reduce the outright cornering power of the car. Now I haven't had a good look at scrub geometry on the Skylines to say what will be better, but it is likely by going closer to standard scrub geometry you will be improving the situation. Will it be noticeable? hard to say - depends on alot of factors, and like everything some cars are more sensitive to this than others. But I wouldn't expect it to be noticeable on street tyres.

SAU Nickname: hrd-hr30 Car Make and Model: Datsun 1200 coupe Circuit Name: QR Sprint Circuit Lap time: 1:04.00 Modifications Engine: L18 1770cc, twin 40 Dellorto, SSS head, 76 works cam, Stanza 5spd Power: 116bhp at wheels Suspension: Stanza struts, Gemini coils, 120Y F sway bar, Whiteline R bar 4.1 open diff, approx 2.5 deg camber Tyres: 185/60*14 Hankook Z2000S Brakes: Stanza front, corolla rear Body weight: est 785kg (uncaged) Comment: This was in a SPARC Sprint event 17/11/2001 when I first started competing. The car got alot faster over the years with alot of development and different engines, gearbox, suspension setup and much better A032R tyres, but I never went back to QR. still, its a reasonable time. -------------------------------------------- SAU Nickname: hrd-hr30 Car Make and Model: Datsun 1200 coupe Circuit Name: Morgan Park Short Circuit A Lap time: 44.8sec Modifications Engine: L18 1770cc, twin 40 Dellorto, SSS head, 76 works cam, Stanza 5spd Power: 116bhp at wheels Suspension: Stanza struts, Gemini coils, 120Y F sway bar, Whiteline R bar 4.1 open diff, approx 2.5 deg camber Tyres: 205/60*13 Hankook Z2000S Brakes: Stanza front, corolla rear Body weight: 785kg (uncaged) Comment: 2002 QLD Super Sprint Series ---------------------------------------------- SAU Nickname: hrd-hr30 Car Make and Model: Datsun 1200 coupe Circuit Name: Morgan Park Full circuit Lap time: 1:13.8 Modifications Engine: L18 1770cc, twin 40 Dellorto, SSS head, 76 works cam, Stanza 5spd Power: 116bhp at wheels Suspension: Stanza struts, Gemini coils, 120Y F sway bar, Whiteline R bar, 4.3 locked diff, approx 4 deg camber Tyres: 205/60*13 Hankook Z2000S Brakes: Stanza F, Corolla R Body weight: 851kg (rollcaged) Comment: 2003 practice day, hand timed ------------------------------------------------- SAU Nickname: hrd-hr30 Car Make and Model: Datsun 1200 coupe Circuit Name: Mt Cotton Hillclimb Lap time: 48.37 Modifications Engine: L18 1995cc, Stewart Wilkins engine with the lot, R30 5spd with 240Z 1,2,3 gears Power: 146bhp at the wheels Suspension: Stanza struts, Gemini coils, 120Y F sway bar, Whiteline R bar, 4.3 locked diff, approx 4.5 deg camber Tyres: Yokohama A032R 195/60*14 Brakes: Stanza F, Corolla R Body weight: 851kg (rollcaged) Comment: Sept 2004. the one and only attempt at the Hill with the good engine I borrowed for 2004 ----------------------------------------------- SAU Nickname: hrd-hr30 Car Make and Model: R32 GTR Circuit Name: Mt Cotton Hillclimb Lap time: 50.6 (torrential rain) Modifications Engine: std turbos and dump pipes, std boost, HKS exhaust, Mines ECU Power: est 160rwkw Suspension: Buddy Club coilover, adj castor rods Tyres: Bridgestone RE55s 225/50*16 Brakes: standard - unknown race pads Body weight: 1430kg (std '89 R32 GTR) Comment: practice day at MtCotton. Torrential rain! Pools of water on some corners, running water everywhere! ----------------------------------------------- SAU Nickname: hrd-hr30 Car Make and Model: Datsun 1200 coupe Circuit Name: Bathurst Conrod SuperSprint Lap time: 56.73 Modifications Engine: L18 1770cc, twin 40 Dellorto, SSS head, 76 works cam, Stanza 5spd Power: 116bhp at wheels Suspension: Stanza struts, Gemini coils, 120Y F sway bar, Whiteline R bar 4.3 locked diff, approx 4 deg camber Tyres: 205/60 Hankook race tyres - hard compound Brakes: Stanza front, corolla rear Body weight: 851kg (rollcaged) Comment: ----------------------------------------------- SAU Nickname: hrd-hr30 Car Make and Model: R32 GTR Circuit Name: Bathurst Conrod SuperSprint Lap time: 52.12 Modifications Engine: std turbos and dump pipes, std boost, HKS exhaust, Mines ECU Power: est 160rwkw Suspension: Buddy Club coilover, adj castor rods Tyres: Bridgestone RE55S 225/50*16 Brakes: standard - unknown race pads Body weight: 1430kg (std '89 R32 GTR) Comment: ----------------------------------------------- SAU Nickname: hrd-hr30 Car Make and Model: R32 GTR Circuit Name: Bathurst Mountain Straight Hillclimb Lap time: 52.00 Modifications Engine: std turbos and dump pipes, std boost, HKS exhaust, Mines ECU Power: est 160rwkw Suspension: Buddy Club coilover, adj castor rods Tyres: Bridgestone RE55s Brakes: standard - unknown race pads Body weight: 1430kg (std '89 R32 GTR) -------------------------------------------- SAU Nickname: hrd-hr30 Car Make and Model: R32 GTR Circuit Name: Bathurst Esses Hillclimb Lap time: 32.51 Modifications Engine: L18 1770cc, twin 40 Dellorto, SSS head, 76 works cam, Stanza 5spd Power: 116bhp at wheels Suspension: Stanza struts, Gemini coils, 120Y F sway bar, Whiteline R bar 4.3 locked diff, approx 4 deg camber Tyres: 205/60 Hankook race tyres - hard compound Brakes: Stanza front, corolla rear Body weight: 851kg (rollcaged) -------------------------------------------- thats all for now I have more, but they are from morwell, some road rallies and the ipswich autocross. things that I doubt anyone here will ever go to. I included my 1200's times for comparison because the GTR will go to all those places next year

that's not why i dismissed your opinions. I got alot of "this is what I think HICAS does", this is what I feel HICAS doing on the racetrack", and 2 pictures as the only technical evidence - one of which clearly shows that HICAS does not always counter-steer on turn in as everyone always says it does. Considering that the journos (or the Aust media rep, before explaining it to the journos) probably got it from Japanese engineers, I think there is a high chance that the explanation was misunderstood/misinterpreted. hardly a conspiracy theory. jokes are supposed to show some sort of humour - ie to be amusing... I suppose the meaning of this comment of your changes like your car's handling, because today it doesn't seem intended to get a laugh...

FFS, the lawn bowls comment was clearly a joke, and I never said you were an inexperienced driver. but really, there are not many drivers at club level who can actually drive their cars 10/10ths. And even fewer who understand what is going on with their car at the limit! And fewer again who would know how to improve the car. conspiracy theory? sorry, you lost me... It seems to me that you're the one who doesn't like being disagreed with. I'm over this thread - I got little to no sensible discussion about HICAS, after asking if anyone had any tech info on the system, all that came up was one or two photos, and I really don't care about your thoughts on handling and car setup enough to continue reading or discussing it with you. You believe your car's handling is totally different wet to dry, track to track, and even day to day, and no-one is going to convince you otherwise. That's fine, continue believing that. i really don't care - its just another car/driver on the track I'll never have to worry about. so enjoy your motorsport, and i hope next time you take the car out, its handling hasn't changed too much

key comment being "reasonably setup GTR on race rubber" - not a terminally understeering GTR that compromises corner entry speeds so drastically. In my years of racing supersprints and hillclimbs, I've never had a car be good at one circuit and rubbish at the next. I disagree about the handling characteristics changing on surfaces with different grip levels. its just that the threshold of grip is lower, and any handling characterisics present in the car are exasperbated. ie, it will be easier to exceed the grip of the fronts on turn-in, it will be easier to exceed the grip of the rears powering out of the exit. the surface doesn't actually change the balance of the car. It may make it feel like the car is behaving differently to an inexperienced driver (especially if he doesn't really challenge the limits of the car in the dry on grippy surfaces/days), because the car is doing different things, but that's a perception rather than reality. Yes soft setups work better in wet or lower grip conditions, and on slower circuits. Partly because it dulls the response of the chassis and partly because more weight trasfer can help in particular areas like traction out of corners in the wet. But even this is a bit misleading because you are really just compensating for the lost weight transfer that you get in those conditions due to the lower speeds and G forces. But even at State Champ level, there aren't too many teams that make setup changes from one track to another.

not a problem in 2nd gear corners? make up your mind. It hard having a sensible dicussion about something when one minute your complaining about the "plethora of second gear corners (My local circuit at Collie has two, the short course at Wanneroo has one, hillclimb courses usually have a couple) & slower speed third gear corners..." But I guess since your car handles differently everyday, it must be hard to figure out where the bloody problem is next you'll be telling us leaning in your seat helps you go around corners...

well, if you can't deal with a little bit of squirming from the back of the car in 2nd gear corners, maybe you should consider something along the lines of lawn bowls to pass your time. I'll take that over plough understeer on entry everytime! no way in hell that's going to help your laptimes! btw, you should have been goign the other way with your pressures.

"ease up"? if someone's getting worked up here, it isn't me. I edited that post to clarify what I was saying a good 2hrs before you quoted it just now without that edit, and even bolding it, to suit your purpose. I never meant to give the impression that HICAS absolutely never counter steers - I was talking about it counter steering yesterday and again earlier today if you care to look. But I freely admit, that post of mine you quoted was not clear, and still kinda reads that way. Frame of reference is racetrack handling problems with HICAS though... And I said "could" make the car unstable "in certain conditions", not " that it would make the car nervous and unpredictable" as you claimed, but don't let the facts get in the way of your story... And you have said before that HICAS makes the rear end unpredictable - sounds like a value judgement to me, which is fine. I've made my personal opinions on the feel of the system, but then I never said I didn't like you just did. The issue is that it seems to be commonly held opinion here that HICAS is crap because it always countersteers on turn-in and that makes the handling unpredictable, and should be immediately scrapped as soon as you as much as think about a track day. I'm saying it doesn't always countersteer on turn in, and I doubt that it ever would on a racetrack, and that it doesn't seem to make the handling of my GTR unpredictable or unsettled at all either on the reacetrack or off it for that matter. what are you so worked up about Beer Baron?

oh, just saw the pics you added. that's an awful lot of lock on the first shot! here's a pic of mine mid corner in the cutting at Bathurst (if it works )

I find mine a bit unresponsive at 4000-4500 in 3rd. And since 2nd can easily hit 120kph at a conservative 8000rpm, that's the gear I generally use for those kind of speeds. Yes, its inside the HICAS working range, but it would pretty certainly be in the high speed end of the HICAS operation without the phase reversal and the supposed unpredictability everyone complains about. There wouldn't be too many corners on Australian racetracks where entry speed would be below about 80-90kph for any reasonably setup GTR on race rubber. You'd pretty much need hillclimbs for lower speed corners, and MtCotton is about as tight as they come. I did a practice day there in the pouring rain and didn't notice the unpredictable HICAS trait. But then, I'm not afraid of a bit of sideways action.

this is a far cry from what everyone always says about HICAS always countersteering then changing to on phase steering when cornering, and using that as a reason to disable it on the racetrack because they say it gives unpredictable response. which is what we're talking about. I think that comes from a misunderstanding or oversimplification of the system - exactly like you've done with those photos - using it as concrete proof when you don't even know what the text says... At least it corroborates what the SAE paper says that it does not counter phase rear steering at 'high' speeds. One photo here and there does not mean that is all HICAS ever does... The system is only operative up to 120kph, so the fact that it counter steers at "low speeds" - whatever that is according to HICAS, but you would imagine its well below 120kph where it stops working - is pretty irrelevant to race track handling. I didn't notice any inconsistent handling at Mt Cotton which has corners from tight 1st gear hairpins to ~90-100kph sweepers around the top of the hills with a sharp crest and the odd bump thrown in for good measure. Or at Bathurst on the Conrod Supersprint entering Caltex Chase at ~220kph with a couple of ~100kph entry LH corners, or even on the Mountain straight hillclimb, with everything from a ~150-160kph sweeper to 90-100kph tigh, banked bumpy turn at the cutting and then alot of fast 3rd gear turns with crests hiding apexes and stuff. I never once felt anything but confident fromt the suspension/steering response. So I've seen a fairly wide range of corners on the limit, and I've never seen the 'problem' everyone always blames on HICAS. That's why I started looking for real info on how it works rather than rely on general opinion here. My GTR handles absolutely awesome for such a heavy car, and I can't see any reason to remove the HICAS - yet anyway. There's a couple of other things I want to do with the suspension before I'll worry about HICAS. I don't think it should be scrapped immediately you start even thinking about track days as everyone recommends. There are other areas that will give greater benefits first. Super HICAS is on Stageas too, at least - it may be on other models as well. And so far we've been talking about R32 mainly (ie what RellikZephyr drives, and what those motoring journos were reffering to), not the later electric system. I haven't read anything on that to know if it differs in its operation from the early electro-hydraulic HICAS.

no, that could probably make the car unstable in certain conditions - not a goal most production car engineers would be looking for. especially if as widely held opinion goes, HICAS is designed to produce understeer... Yes, I will take the technical paper written for the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and written by the Nissan Engineers that developed Super HICAS system over what a couple of motoring journos wrote in a car mag, and repeated as chinese whispers for 15 years. Obviously, if the system steers counter phase at lower speeds, its needs phase reversal control to handle situations that are borderline or where that speed is transgressed mid corner. That was easily explained... And the system is apperently only operative between those speeds, as I said in the last post. So at speeds over 120kph (approx) HICAS is inactive - ie no rear steer. I believe the motoring journos could easily have misunderstood the explanation given to them by Nissan.

and I wouldn't expect them to. I kinda expected this explanation of HICAS wasn't from any sort of technical source. I think I'll stick with this explanation: HICAS uses steering angle and road speed to determine what to do at what time. it has a maximum of 1 degree movement, and operates between roughly 20 and 120kph. I very much doubt it ever countersteers first before settling into same phase steering (edit: on the racetrack, which is what we're talking about...) I've never seen any credible information to suggest this is the case, and from an engineering point of view, it's difficult to see why they would design it that way.

are you saying that HICAS steers opposite to the front initally and then with it? where did you get that explanation of the HICAS system? any more details like how long it holds the counter phase steering before changing, or under what conditions it does this, or is it simply all the time?

I reckon you've got it about right. Anything you're willing to do to help the oil system, do it. I'll be fitting an oil cooler before I do any multi-lap supersprints next year. I don't know why everyone says to remove the HICAS, mine is fine on the track with HICAS connected. The only arguments I've heard against it are that it makes the car unpredictable, which is utter rubbish. And that it causes understeer, which in my experience is also BS. The reasons a serious race car would do away with it are: 1) weight saving 2) reduced complexity (one thing less to go wrong) 3) its an unnecesary system, and everything unnecesary goes in a race car (where rules allow). for a street car with the odd track day, I wouldn't worry about it. I'm not saying it doesn't have any benefits to handling, but there are certainly other areas in the suspension that will make huge improvements to lap times before worrying about the HICAS.

before you go and get longer springs, measure the length of the shock installed and at full extension. You may very well run out of droop in the shock if you fit significantly longer springs as suggested, and end up with a car that lifts the inside front are the merest suggestion of a corner, or decent bumps...

not all jap coilovers will make your car into a drift machine. believe it or not, some of them are actually setup to make your car handle really well. I just got 3rd outright in last weekend's mountain straight hillclimb at Bathurst, and there's nothing done to my suspension except BuddyClub coilovers and adj castor rods. The bump rate (not the springs) is far too high for them to be comfortable on the road though, and infortunately the fronts are not adjustable... trying to make your car handle well on the road and be setup for drift on the track at the same time is a big ask. They really are opposite goals. I'd say just set the suspension up to handle, and get another set of wheels for drift days, with normal road tyres on the back and semi slicks for the front. That will mess up the balance enough to turn it into a tail happy piece of crap!

thanks mate. I'll have to wait till after xmas before I can afford to spend more on the car, but I'll be in touch. Harry

I'm glad I made the trip down from Brissy. That was an awesome weekend of racing around parts of Mt Panorama! And good to meet a couple of guys from SAU. The PowerPlay guys had some really nice cars, and I'm sure they'll get quicker as they get some more comps under their belts. And that Stagea looked so tuff! We actually got 5 runs on Saturday's Supersprint and 4 runs on Sunday's Hillclimb. That was just an amazing piece of road! Boosted Zed, if you're thinking about entering next year, I'd definitely recommend it - the grin factor of running flat out around the mountain is unbeatable! There were some quick Skylines down there! Bruce's Black 32 GTR (#111) and Greg's white 32 GTR (#696) were simply ballistic! Nice guys too. They completely outgunned me on Conrod, but I managed to even it out with a class win and 3rd outright on Sunday's Hillclimb It came as a pretty big surprise as I wasn't even top 10 on Saturday! Hey SW20-GT, did you happen to get any pics of my car (#32) ? Supersprint Results Hillclimb Results