hrd-hr30

it was. my obvious point however, was that nothing in 2014 is a 'done deal' yet. A year is a long time in F1. The teams (and others) are still making noise about the turbo engine regs, and about the only ones who are making positive noises are Mercedes. Presumably in the hope they might come out a bit better off after a fundamental change resets the playing field...

those scrapped aero changes were a done deal till two days ago as well.

turbo engines aren't till 2014, if at all...

Good point. Gets hot up here in QLD too. The track day I did last week was 32degrees at the track. I was doing 2 or 3 cool-down laps to get the engine temps right back down and give the auto a rest. I've been using thermocouple temp gauge/alarms on all my cars for about the last 3 years. Having audible alarms means you don't need to constantly stare at a gauge. Good for everyday cars too - who really looks at their temp gauge constantly on a highway run? You can set the alarm levels to whatever you want. Being thermocouples, they still read a proper temperature if you've lost coolant, whereas normal gauges just don't work if they're not immersed in coolant. Quick and easy to hook up, with no need for those dodgy in-hose temp sensore adapters which add in 3 extra potential points of failure. And can control thermo fans as well, with user defined on and off temps.

that's 3 years ago...

just drive it however it is now, as long as its in good mechanical condition of course. You don't need to complete a list of mods to enter a track day. I've driven my stock auto Soarer at a couple of track days and the only thing done to that is a set of lowered springs. Its just as much fun to punt around the track as my 200rwkw 180SX was with all the mods...

stocko auto Soarer twin turbo with single pegger and cheapo street tyres at Lakeside yesterday - 1:05.9 the only performance mod is Tein Stech lowering springs.

yeah taking out half the top 10, including 2 of the 3 main championship contendors in one fell swoop didn't have a major impact on the championship... because alternator. that's how it goes, yeah?

Momtezemolo was recently quoted as saying something along the lines of Alonso should first win the title if he wants a co-driver not to bother him... I don't think they will be protecting Alonso at Massa's expense at the start of the season. I reckon they'll wait to see who's ahead as they get to the business end of the year.

if he carries over his current form from the last 6 races of this season, he will be a contender. The Ferrari team mate battle is one of the things i am looking forward to next year. They did suggest if Alonso doesn't win the title, its anything goes..

2013 is shaping up alright. Massa in the best form of his career could make life very unpleasant for Alonso if he continues that form through the start of next season... McLarens are fast so it will be interesting to see how Perez stacks up. Hamilton will be throwing toys out of the cot on a regular basis in the Merc. i don't think a car that's hard on rear tyres will suit him at all under the current no refuelling regs. But will be interesting to see how Rosberg fares against his very highly rated new team-mate. He was struggling to match the old man for alot of this season... If Hamilton's not blowing him away, something's wrong... But then people expected that when Button moved to McLaren, hey? Can Lotus find that extra 1% they need to really be a regular contender? how long to we have to wait???

can't belive Koba is out of F1. He deserves a seat!

Definitely. Alonso did just about everything right this year. Vettel was extremely luck in this race, with the lap 1 crash somehow not ending his day, and the pass under yellows being officially pardoned by the stewards... I don't think Vettel was anywhere near as deserving - look at his results in the start of the season when the car wasn't quite the dominant force it usually is. He only came back into contention when Newey & co. got the thing absolutely flying, with 4 consectutive, uncontested, flag to flag victories.

Renault has an impact on every championship. Its hard for one of the manufacturers at the pointy end of the field not to have an impact on the championship. If their car is fast they have an impact, if their car is unreliable that has an impact. That's as it should be. WHat shouldn't happen, and what I can't recall happening ever before is half the top ten getting wiped out in turn 1 due to one guy's ineptitude. Has nothing to do with other teams reliability issues. Saying Vettel may have finished second anyway is a massive leap - if you actually read what your disagreeing with yopu'd know he failled to make the top10 in qualy, and his only podium in the previous 6 races came in the wet. RBR didn't have pace at that time of the season, particularly not at Spa. The cars with straightline speed did - Williams, Sauber, Force India, Ferrari, McLaren... Even Lotus were faster than Red Bull there. Vettel was going to at least have a very tough time making up those positions. In fact with their reknowned lack of top end speed, he'd have been lucky to pass anyone at Spa! Postulate on what might have happened as much as you like, the fact is Vettel's main rivals got taken out and Vettel was gifted a bunch of points while his rivals were deprived a chance of scoring any. That's what happened. Its sad that that incident looks like costing Alonso the championship. Vettel will deserve this one about as much as Hamilton deserved his.

you obviously missed this: you're right, that's not what makes one less valid than the other. But Renault's reliability has nothing to do with the championship being altered at Spa. Its not rationale or reasoning to your argument, Its just a diversion. yet he'd still be leading the championship if not for the aberration of Spa caused by factors outside anyone's control. Except Grosjean, of course. The fact that Nando has driven that rubbish car into so many points throughout the year is why he deserves better than the title being handed to Vettel by default due to the unnatural result at Spa. difference between tagging a person's back tyre giving them a puncture and wiping out half the top 10 in one fell swoop. That doesn't gift the other driver an extra 6 free, uncontested positions and a heap more points, does it? You may not have noticed that team orders are legal. You may also not have noticed that the rules permit what Ferrari did in Austin. You may also not have noticed that taking advantage of the rules is the name of the game in F1. And competitive sport worlwide for that matter. You may also not have noticed that in any team sport, the team does what is best for the team at the expense of individuals. In this case, its obviously its best for the team to try and keep their driver in the title hunt than for Massa to collect a few more points just for the sake of it. but the thing you took umbridge to was the comment that "If your car is unreliable, that's points you deserve to loose IMO" Your response was simply "What!?". When I asked what part you didn't understand and you replied "Every part". No rationale to that at all, you just went off on some unrelated tangent about alternators. You're the one letting your butthurt get the better of you. You dislike Ferrari and are obviously butthurt about their gearbox seal trick to help Alonso, so you're arguing against them for the sake of it. But at least you admit Grosjean cost people points. Its only a small step from there to admit he's changed the course of the championship which, after all, is decided on those points he cost people. The points he cost Alonso, Hamilton et al at Spa and the same points he gifted to Vettel has made a big difference to the championship. That's undeniable. Comparing the obliteration of the top 10 at Spa to analternators is the spurious argument.

what part of that don't you understand? Ever heard the old adage; "to finish first, first you must finish"? If the car is unreliable, you won't win every race. And you don't deserve to. Simple. Same goes for if your car doesn't make good downforce - you won't win and don't deserve to. Reliability is a characteristic of the car every bit as much as downforce is, or any other aspect of a car's performance. that's not the same reasoning. the driver generally does have some input over where he qualifies. But yes, if you qualify down in the midfield, there is always going to be greater risk of first lap incidents. That's a well known issue. That's part of what make qualifying as high as you can important. Has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about though... lol that is saying the very least! Feel free to ellaborabate... You offer absolutely no rationale, so it's impossible to tell what you mean. As impressive as your big word is, it does not in itself prove me wrong.

That's entirely different as well. If your car is unreliable, that's points you deserve to loose IMO. Sure, its outside of the driver's control, but its a characteristic of the car he's in, just like its awesome downforce, or any other characteristic of the car the driver has no control over. But I have no problem with Renault being the deciding factor in the championship. If their shit is too unreliable to win races, that's a fair deciding factor! And loosing an alternator and retiring doesn't gift your rival another 6 places, and the bagfull of points that goes along with it. Those points Vettel was gifted and Alonso lost by being skittled are the reason Vettel leads Alonso in the Championship. That's why its the deciding factor at the moment.

I can say it, and I am saying it. Its undeniable that Grosjean at Spa changed the course of the championship. Vettel who couldn't even make Q3 ends up finishing 2nd because 6 of the top 10 in front of him were effectively removed from the race in the first corner, including Alonso. Alonso scores 0 because of Grosjean and Vettel gets gifted 6 spots. That is what happened. Saying it doesn't count because something entirely different could have happened is insane. The way it stands, its the deciding factor of the championship.

that same logic applied to Renault would say most of their advantage was in the Michelins... besides, the argument that Bridgestone designed their tyres for Ferrari is a bit silly. The other options were to design them for Minardi or Jordan - they're not going to get you wins or a championship. and wasn't it Michelin that got busted cheating with wider front tyres?

I think Renault putting an abrupt end to Ferrari's domination had more to do with the regulation change that you had to use one set of tyres for Qualy and the race. No tyre changes/strategy.

just because you didn't like it, doesn't make it cheating. Rules don't have a 'spirit'. They have wording. You use them to your advantage whenever you can. RBR have been pushing the boundaries of the rules in their car development all year, forcing wording changes to the rules to stop them avoiding the intention of the rules. How is what Ferrari did any different? My point about Spa was that Grosjean took Alonso out of effectively 3rd place and gifted Vettel 6 of the 8 spots he made up from his starting position. Vettel had no speed at Spa - failed to make Q3 and his only podium in the previous 6 races came in the wet at Silverstone. He got a bagful of points and Alonso missed out on his because of that incident. If not for that, Alonso would still lead Vettel in the Championship. Grosjean is the deciding factor at the moment.

They've sucked since Silverstone where the tyre variability dissapeared. The car is far too hard on its rear tyres, just like it has been for the previous 2 years. The fall apart tyres we had at the start of the season actually suited Mercedes because the tyres didn't last for anyone. But a slippery dry track is very different to a wet track - track temp is still up, as is abrasion, so tyre wear is still there. Perhaps even more so than normal because turning the tyres out of the slow corners on the slippy track will hurt them more than normal. In qualy tyre wear doesn't come into it and Schuey once again hustled the car into a position it had no business being, just like he's done in the wet all season. But in the race, the tyres just got torn up. They were the only ones who had to stop twice. Conserving tyres has never been one of Schuey's strengths either, so it hurt him more than Rosberg.

Grosjean needs to take out Vettel, and 5 other people who qualify ahead of Alonso in Brazil to level the ledger and make it a fair championship battle!

Looks like RBR designed that place! They (well, Vettel) will be untouchable.

yes - IF they are on the inside and half way alongside, it is their corner. The guy on the outside is the one who should be rolling off the throttle. All I can say is you guys would be singing a different tune if it were Maldonardo on the outside and Webber or Hamilton on the inside... but I probably would too