hrd-hr30

no shit. but not in the ATCC.

5l V8 category began in 93. 97 was just when CAMS sold it to Cochrane and he remaned it. CAMS publicly stated the plan was to introduce the 5l V8 touring car category to replace GroupA. Keeping the 2L category was just an interim measure. Make no mistake, they got rid of them too. They just kept them around to make up numbers for a year or two. Or are you arguing the semantics of the date it happened?

by that logic they banned the Corollas because they were afraid of them too

RE: Professionalism and depth, you could say the same thing about any other Australian sport back in the mid 80s to early 90s... as for the quality of racing. It wasn't a control category! It was production based cars using production components. Having the whole field qualify within 1 second because the cars are 99.99% the same does not make it "quality" racing, any more than HQ's are the pinnacle of racing. It was such a completely different type of racing, it was almost a different sport. Don't bother comparing it to single make racing like the V8s.

yeah, Procar put the old R33 GTR in with the current model exotics/supercars (Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche etc) in Nation's Cup rather than with the other production cars (WRX, Evo, HSV, RX7, 200SX, and that insanely fast Mustang Bowe drove!) in GT Production. What do you expect? At least it saved the embarrasment of being beaten by Evos...

F1's only control parts are the tyres and the plank under the floor??? I wouldn't call that "alot of control tech". There is a massive difference to having design limitations or a framework to work within and having 'control' parts.

just got a couple of pics of my old GTR at QR... and he even did up a little video of it sliding around on street tyres that day lol I wasn't just hamming it up for the camera - it was just the Federal 595SS tyres, I swear! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d86yNLci2W4

as much as I'm not a McLaren fan (because of Hamilton), I hope it proves to be the fastest car early on and the other teams rush to update their broken noses to something similar. But it sounds like it won't be possible for those broken nosed cars to fit the regs with a McLaren shape nose without a major change to the height of the chassis where the front suspension attaches, so we'll be stuck with them all season. I guess we'll get used to it...

If you want to see track days, no question the best quailty fields of fast cars are in the Time Attack track days. Dates are on the TimeAttack website: http://www.timeattack.com.au/content/view/88/137/

some video from QR yesterday. Clubman and Sprint Tracks. Clubman is a fun little track, but Sprint still bores me to tears... the new surface is really good - no bumps in the turn 1 braking area and that giant bump in the middle of turn 2 is gone too. 9 tenths faster on Clubman than last time I went there a couple of years ago. Might go back in winter with my lower diff gears in to see if it can go a bit faster.

he did get Mercedes best result for the season with a blinder at Canada in the wet where only DRS robbed him of 2nd. Not to mention the many lols he provided for us at Monza mugging the young superstar Hamilton at a restart and screwing with him for the next 20 odd laps... Its not like he's a complete dud or anything. well, except in qualifying! Hope Mercedes is a bit more competitive this year...

if you were only racing yourself, there wouldn't be classes. And they'd only give each person their own times. I only call them 'cheater slicks' because they're pretending to be a grooved tyre or semi when they really aren't. They're 98% of a slick.

I know there's a 1.7 multiplication factor for turbos, but that means very little when the ARC is for 2WD vehicles this year. The turbos and NA's will be going head to head for outright regardless of maths.

I went back there with the first blown tyre but like I said, I'd pretty much convinced myself I'd damaged the sidewall dropping it of the track. So I wasn't really looking for any answers from them. I didn't go back to Kumho the next time. I thought about it, but I just didn't see the point. What could you achieve? You're not going to get a refund, let alone get them to pay for the damage to the wheel and the car. Best you'd be likely to get is a discount on a replacement set of Kumhos - and at the time I wouldn't have had another set of Kumhos if they paid me! Besides, I didn't want to get into an argument with the guy - I've known him for about 10 yrs and he's a nice bloke. And there were other reasons I wasn't happy with Kumho - like that they sold me K50 compound rears and harder K60 compound fronts. So I just put the whole thing down to experience and bought another brand of tyres elsewhere. With your example on the commodores - were the tyres load rated appropriately? If so, weight is hardly a reasonable justification for them blowing out regardless of what profile they are. And if the tyres can only tolerate a certain amount of camber, they should be telling us that when we buy them. But like I said even the cheap-arse 2nd hand Roadstone tyres I use on the street (and at the odd dirt event) have survived on the car for a couple of years with the same camber I use on the track. They aren't even wearing badly on the inside edge from all the camber... If Roadstones can handle it a competition tyre should!

strange regs - a NA 2l would have no hope compared to a decent 1.6turbo! Are they seperate classes or all lumped in together?

size was 215/40x17 I think, not the usual slick sizing like the 240/610 R17 I had on the back. I was running them at about 32-34 hot as recommended by the Kumho distributor. It was always fronts the blew out and they all delaminated on the inner edge and blew out. First one happened on the 3rd track day I'd done on them at Lakeside. Each day was 4 sessions of 5 laps, on a 2.4km track. So each day is 48km at full noise, and 19km for in and out laps. The first one blew in the first session of that 3rd track day. Front left. I had just dropped the wheel off the edge of the track exiting Eastern loop and it blew about 50m later when I turned into Shell Corner onto the front straight. Pulled it up safely before the armco wall on the outside of the track, no big deal, but I was glad it didn't let go in the 170km/h right hand sweeper under the bridge instead! I put it down to maybe hurting it on the edge of the track the corner before. Got a replacement and had a look at the other tyre, which had no apparent damage. Next track day the front right blew out as I turned into Hungry. That sent me off into the paddock smashing my front splitter, bumper and bending the right front gaurd. One of these blowout and resulting offs put a flat spot on one of my Regas as well. Not happy. Anyway, there was a fair bit of smoke coming from the front left after my excursion through the field so I drove it straight to the closest fire marshall, but the smoke turned out to be the front left tyre about to blow - it was blistered all the way around the inner edge. This time it was obvious that the tyres hadn't been cut by the edge of the track and that they were just blowing out - perhaps because they don't like the amount of camber I'm running? but its only about 4 degrees... Which is the same alignment that the R888s had survived for over 2 years, not to mention the quality Roadstone street rubber, and now the FZ201s have been on there for over a year and 6 track days in total. And the only lockup they ever had was after they blew out. Again it was lucky it happened where it did and not at the ~205km/h kink on the front straight! There's not much run-off at Lakeside! But at that point when it was obvious the tyres were not safe (for my car anyway) I ditched them and swore off Kumhos for good. I've since seen another guy with S700s have exactly the same issues with front tyres delaminating and blowing out the inner edge on his e30.

I've seen and heard all the stuff about their aero before - its no secret. Its just that they keep the car looking like a car. Not adding 2 feet of strange platypus bill out the front or wings off the sides or a couple of feet of the world's biggest diffuser on the back up to the height of the taillights. I've got no doubt all that stuff that fella designed works, but it looks crap, and Cyber shows you don't need all that outrageous stuff to be fast.

funny thing is the fastest car, Cyber Evo, wouldn't look out of place in Open Class. Its just nowhere near as radical as some of the things with bullshit crazy aero that still can't match it. No doubt it has very good well developed aero, but its not the 'out-there' stuff we're seeing from some of the locals. Hopefully they ban front wings before someone goes all 'Rado' on us over here... As much as I really don't like Evos, I can't help but like the Cyber car.

yep, everytime I rocked up, bolted the slicks on and hit the track with 99% of other people on semis, I felt like I was cheating even though I was running in the race car class. But full slicks at least aren't pretending to be something they're not - its those 2 groover cheater slicks I really hate...

I've bought cheap new slicks from Kumho and had 3 of them blow out within 3 track days. Would not recommend Kumho!

whaddaya mean NOW??? This thread was been talking about Touregs (and all the other tow cars we're still talking about) two and a half years ago!

I take it all back Matt - falcodores are clearly the best tow cars. god only knows what their engineers were thinking when they limited them to just 1600kg without load stabilisers and 80km/h at their max tow rating. While the big 4WDs get much higher tow ratings without any caveats. falcodores tow better, stop better and crash 4 times less often than 4WDs! lol

don't agree. 1. most heavy duty ladder chassis 4WDs have load sensing brake proportioning valves which change braking bias with rear axle load. That means less deterioration of their normal braking performance compared to the passenger car. 2. And an extra 30% or more mass in front of the trailer - eg my GQ weighs 2350kg. They only get heavier as you get more modern and comfortable. So their naturally less affected by the load behind them. 3. And the ladder chassis that carries and distributes the forces of the trailer more effectively. Hence the 3500kg towing capacity, which is over 50% more than the Falcon's. With none of the caveats. There's alot more capability in reserve with a 4WD than something that's rated to more than 1600kg only with load stabilisers at a max ~80km/h. ie the 4WDs braking and handling will not be as adversely affected as the passenger cars' will be with a heavy load behind it. 4. Anyone who thinks 4WDs are as affected by the wet as a passenger car simply hasn't driven one in those conditions. Standing water on the highway no longer pulls your car around with ATs or MTs. HTs I can't speak for because I've never used them, but the fact they're turning so much slower than a tiny passenger car tyre gives them far more time to clear water. That mean less deterioration of their normal grip levels. And more stability. Driving to the conditions? If your Falcon is rated to tow at 80km/h max (ie in good conditions), what do you do when conditions deteriorate? 60km/h? 70 maybe? You'd be a hazard to everyone else on the highway! I can't cop the argument that 4WDs won't be better tow vehicles than passenger cars.

good tow cars... people with Falcons, go out and try an emergency brake from 110kph with 2000kg behind you. If you're game... how about in the wet? or downhill. how long do your brakes hold up going down a range? etc. They might be cheap to buy. 2008 onwards models might be uber cheap on fuel (at least when not towing). They might be comfy to drive everyday, but none of those things makes them good tow cars. Not sure how up to date this info is from a caravanning site (but I found a similar thing on Ausfish posted this year), but its a good example of just how good passenger vehicles are for towing: "Ford only permits 100km/h if the load is less than 1200 kg. At 1600 kg this drops to 90km/h. The speed further reduces until at 2300 kg, 80km/h is the maximum. Holden takes a similar approach but also ties the vehicle speed to the type of towing equipment fitted. Spending a few minutes reading the trailer towing section in the owners manual is highly recommended."

going alone on 22's is a bit brave. But as long as you stick to this side of Middle Rock there'll always be someone around before too long. I've taken the old GQ up to Sandy Cape solo with a trailer full of water and camping gear a couple of times. I wouldn't even contemplate doing that with anything less than lives axles and coils. oh, and a winch! Last time we didn't see another vehicle north of Ocean Lake all week. And on the way up there the trailer got us hung up coming off one of the rocks last time. There was a big step down caused by a water running out right beside the rock. Drawbar hit the rock before the rear wheels hit the sand. And the running water quickly buried the fronts... Had to get the spare off the back and bury it to winch off. We should really have shoveled a ramp out of the coffee rock before driving off it I guess... Simpson isn't that kind of isolation anymore and there's no time pressure because of tides... the issue out there is reliability. Something goes wrong with a Toureg out there, its an expensive recovery and tow back to somewhere who can diagnose the thing. Not a risk I'd take.