BATMBL

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sydneykid, PM me about when you are able to go exactly, i''ll see if i can make it there etc, i would like to check this out for myself also. not sure about why the kwrw was at 148 on standard, but i wasnt there doing the testing, it was done by someone neutral to every reason i got the dyno's done. i just dropped off the car, and when i came back after a few days, i got the dyno sheets. i just told them what i wanted done, thats it. also, regardless of the fact that coating can cost $10 or $100, it doesnt mean that every cat manufactured in the world has it, or should i say has the right amount of the different catalysts in the coat to pass emissions in here in aus or let alone california. if they all did or if it was that easy, then every brand of cat and its series would have EPA & CARB approvals, every cat would be suitable to be used for compliance, and this discussion wouldnt have started. anyways, speak to you soon.

RB30 power, the discussion is not whether catco has the epa and carbs approvals, everyone knows they do......and yes its also on the packaging. however the thread is about magic not complying with either of the two, nor having any paperwork to prove it. im not sure about the packaging, though i would imagine it wont say anything about epa and carb approvals. msg_chris, the cfm is actually more than that, but that is beside the point of the discussion in this thread...

you may as well buy the magic cat through the group buy here to get it at that cheap price, then do your test, it will save you some $$$.

done. when do you want to do the test? btw, i have already run a dyno test with a r32gtst that had a standard cat and then changed it this new catco cat - a 10KWRW GAIN, from 148kwrw to 158kwrw. stock boost, stock everything else, except for a 3.5" catback which was on there for both tests. sydneykid, with regards to the prices, again, you are speaking USA, not AUS. if you can quote me a price from a retailer here for a catco 3" cat for those prices, i would be completely shocked....and yes catco passes these californian emissions, which are stircter than ours here anyway. this new catco cat will not be found on the list in the catco catalog or distributed in USA, as the insides are only bought from the manufacturer and the body is made here in aus. this was only possible due to the close links between the manufacturer in USA and Catco here.

hi sydneykid the cats you are refering to are not the same cats that are for sale here, by both magic and catco. the cats biscuits are not ceramic, like the ones priced on that list, they are stainless steel, with coating. also the cats we are refering to are at 200 cells per sq inch not (again i cant remember the holes per sq in ch on the ceramic, i know there is a lot more though) but they are quite different, especially in price. the one in the price list you are refering to is the one i sell for $190, the small body 3" cat. the difference is i make mine bolt on, so i eliminate the customer having to go to the exhaust shop and get charged $50-$80 to get the flanges welded on and the cat to be fitted, people can do this at home. also you are buying from aus, so any issues, then its very easy to sort things out. do you see how fairly & close to cost i charge for these products? i know before i started 2.5yrs ago, exhaust shops were selling 3" cats for over $300-$350 easy. if you consider the high flow apexi or nismo cats having similar (maybe same, cant confirm) stainless steel mesh inside and stainless steel bodies outside charging at just under $1000, the cat im sure wouldnt only cost them $100 or so, i mean could they be ripping the public off that much, making 1000%+ profits?? also the body of the cat is made of 304sus surgical grade stainless steel on the cats im talking about, not (cant remember which number) stainless steel, which is just the ordinary dull one. the difference between a non coated biscuit and a coated stainless steel biscuit can be about let say for arguements sake US$30. if you are buying in bulk, say about 200 a month for a small business or over 1000+ for a larger business, that extra money adds up like you dont believe. he thought he was getting a good deal, not realising what he was buying was just the mesh at that pricem not incl coating, thats the issue. i dont think he even knew the stainless steel biscuits needed a coating....also im quite sure that those prices are non existant here in aus, no retailer will be selling a 3" cat for $130 or so, not unless its made in china and it also doesnt have any approval papers for passing emissions.!

shaun, certainly havent made enemies with me, im not offended at all, just trying to share info with you guys which can be very helpful. i mean how is it any different than a bunch of guys talking about this at a meet or something. the difference is i have proof. read below. shif tea, of course most poeple are cynical in this world we live in, so they got to ask whats in it for him, theres got to be something etc. well, what is the purpose of these forums? to sell things and buy things, thats it? no, its to share information about topics related to our cars etc the fact that i have said magics cats are useless and a waste of money... is yes ....my opinion, but unfortunately the truth also. ...evidence you say? there is all the evidence you need, and it doesnt have to be provided by myself. i'll tell you why. i have just been advised that you can call the EPA directly and they can tell you whether the 'magic cat' passes emissions, as they have a database of all approved cats, catco and supercat(carsound) of which are the main ones in the list(why do you think these are the most common brands used in compliance?). ofcourse your call would have to be something like 'i have a skyline with a standard cat, looking at buying this cat called magic cat'. i assure you that if you call them and ask them whether the magic cat has an approval that they have passed emissions, they will look it up, and find that the magic cat doesnt exist..why? because only approved cats and their series are on that list, simple. this way no one has to get cars tested because it may just be too hard (of course if you can, go for your life!), just like with the small drama sydneykid has gone through...they have obviously given him the bs 'we dont have time for that' treatment. i have a good reputation on the forums and there is no way i would wreck it just because there a group buy going around for the magic cat...thats quite pathetic. i would not be saying what i am saying unless i knew 100% that its true. for those that want to remain ignorant, you should probably close the thread and forget about it, just keep thinking what you thought before about this cat, hopefully the epa wont have to tell you what i have been trying to tell you. for those that want to know what they are paying for is not a cat, then keep yourself posted on the thread. i will get the number for those who want to ring within the next few days and post it, as tomorrow is a wknd so im sure i wont get too far. that should rest the case. i also saw the documents needed today (U.S docs) at catco which state their cat 'so and so' has been approved by the epa and passes emissions. its there in black and white for catco, and that is what magic mufflers cant provide for their magic cat, as his supplier has screwed him with the substrates(biscuits). i saw the difference between the mesh being only stainless steel with no coat and then with the coat. you can actually tell the difference, as the coating is a light pastel green colour, and it should have a 2000 series stamp on it, this being anthything from 2000-2900 for that type of biscuit that both catco and magic use. you would be suprised how very small the cat industry is and how quickly things can be discovered, as there are only a few manufacturers and a few major brands being supplied by them. the owner of catco here is blood relatives with the owner of the manufacturer in USA...so, nothing gets past him. the unfortunate thing is catco told the owner at magic exhaust about his problem right at the beginning, as he didnt realise what he bought wasnt right, but of course what is he going to do...recall them all now that he has sold an x amount? obviously he should have..but being a small business, that would probably kill you. so he has to maintain that its all good, by word obviously. i did notice also about the fact that magic shouldnt sell the cats if they are illegal etc...well i ask you, how many of us buy atmospheric blow off valves, pod filters, >90db exhausts etc...they are all illegal, but you can still buy them. the onus is up to you. the fact that you may have a receipt which says cat converter is great, but if your car doesnt pass emissions at an EPA, dont think that by showing that receipt everything is going to go away. prob going to have to go to court etc and waste time prooving its not your fault. its a shame that magic got rooted with the cats by his supplier, but anything a lot cheaper than its counterparts has got to have some big downside, thats just how it goes, i guess thats what can happen when you put profit first....think about it..$700 or so when they first came out?? now at about $200 or so? hmmm..

sydneykid, i have always respected your posts and continue to do so, as it can clearly be seen you know what you are talking about and have logical thinking. i see how your testing can lead you to this conclusion. the EPA however wont be tesing emissions with their noses or a lambda sensor(no pun intended there!). whether it smells different or not may be due to the mesh, i mean afterall the heat from this mesh may certainly burn up some of the gasses that cause certain smells from the exhaust. the problem is, its most likely not the gasses you can smell that the EPA test for, or the readings picked up by a lambda sensor, but by some special equipment/sensors which are mounted at the back of the exhaust. im quite sure that all compliance centres need to have this equipment under the new RAWS in order to perform their own testing on every car after the compliance cat has been put on, so im sure they wont be charging $2k for a 5min test if you ask them to do one for you. i remember when i was working at the compliance centre and the equipment was being ordered prior to the new RAWS rules taking effect. also, i have just been informed of some new things which i was not aware of. magic mufflers is the importer of these cats. they are not made by magic himself, he has just branded them magic cat (obviously due to their muffler shop name). magic mufflers is obviously not a cat manufacturer, its a small muffler shop in castle hill i think catco said, and magic stores only a small amount of them at a time, making about 30 sales a month. the cats are made overseas and he apparently because of not knowing too much about all the rules and emissions requirements of cats here in aus (about 3000 pages worth of docs) has imported them in quite cheap, not thinking that he would have this problem and that there is more to importing/selling cats than just the look of the product itself. they basically dont have the catalyst in them. when a cat gets registered after it gets an approval, it is given a number. e.g catco may have 30 different types of cats, and each would get an approval number for passing emissions. apparently he thought he can still sell the cats here in aus anyway, since in some states these emissions rules apparently dont apply. to cut a long story short, the magic cat is just an imported product from overseas which unfortunately due to our strict emmissions rules will not in any way pass here, and this is also why you will not notice the reputable exhaust shops stocking this product through magic being the 'distributer'. e.g liverpool exhaust, hi-tech mufflers and so on. he would have made good money this way if they were designed with passing emissions in mind, since it is a great idea to bring them in since there was nothing like it here, but unfortunately its not suitable in 'most parts of aus' due no catalyst being evident in the cat. i actually feel kind of sorry for him, as it really was a good idea, but unfortunately not thought out too much,as he didnt know all the rules and must have rushed it for sales. i also found out there is actually no feud or history between catco and magic mufflers, as magic is not a competitor with catco, one is a catalytic converter manufacturer and the other is a small exhaust shop, which catco actually had/has supplied to before and has also spoken to him on many occasions. so again, this is not a thread to bag out magic's cats, but an informative thread, especially for those who live in qld, nsw and vic (not sure about w.a or the rest), where the EPA is not very kind to exhausts with bad emissions/no cats. keep in mind also that by magic actually selling these cats, he can get fined as he sells them in nsw, not in a state with little or no emissions policies. unfortunately the loophole he was looking for is closed in that respect.

shaun, im not sure why you are so passionate about Magic cats and why you would be so piss.ed off at my thread, i really didnt expect this of you. posts like this only show your immaturity, ignorance and desparation. if you read my first post, i have clearly stated my intentions for this thread. i have this feeling that if i get these papers anyway, and show them here, you will still not be convinced of the results (due to ignorance) and then would show them to magic and he will just deny everything, obviously by word, not papers, since he would have dismissed the claims straight away by showing you the papers etc... so what have we accomplished? back to square one. as for me, playing a certain part in this industry, i dont see how its very hard to provide evidence of your products working the way you claim them to be working. why the big dramas in providing this evidence, evidence that he needs to have on hand at any time if he gets a knock on the door and gets questioned? afterall, you need to be able to show evidence of what YOU claim YOUR product does. why should it be up to others to show evidence of what your product does or doesnt do? i can say my cats flow twice as much as magics, but how will i proove it? hard evidence is what i need. so when you claim your cat passes emmissions, show the evidence and its done, all settled. im sure a potential customer of a companys product has the right to check things through if they believe that something may not be right with the product, by looking at certain paperwork etc. the way to do this with a catalytic converter is to show the emissions approval papers for it. i have never met nor have any intention to 'defamate' magic. i personally think that yes, they may be some 'history' behind catco and magic, but i dont care about that, i dont work for catco, i just sell their products, just like advan sells trust products. i have just been informed and thought id share it with fellow enthusiast vehicle owners, the people most likely to buy this product... i know his product doesnt work, and have posted it on this public forum so people can voice their opinions and concerns about it, things that many people are interested in due to recent/heavy advertising, on whether it actually is worth buying. just because you have organised the magic cat group buy, i dont see the need to get so offended by this thread, as im sure its not any of your fault and no one would think that of you. i can see how it can be hard for you to ask him to proove that they do, as you have organised this with him and have formed a good relationship etc. so maybe the key is to get someone else that is keen to know the answer and ask for them himself. i am not in a court case to provide all the evidence there is to prove the cats dont work to a jury. simply as the post above says, go get a test done once you have bought the cat and see for yourself, then you can share with all of us your experience, and that way there is no arguements when the results come out. since you are so convinced and ignorant that they work because you read some article about a product you dont know much about. when you get the results, please post them here if you get the chance to before i try to. there is not much more for me to say, and believe me, im not having a 'laugh' about this or doing it because im bored, i really just dont have the time for it.

hi guys i the end, im not the one that needs to come up with the proof, even though i would am working on getting papers with the proof. as an e.g. if someone has made a claim against me and i know its false, i will provide the evidence needed to put the matter to rest. the fact that the evidence isnt provided, and as 'grandmasterb' has also pointed out after calling magic himself, he keeps avoiding and turns around the and doesnt answer the question for the main reason he called... another way of putting it is if someone claims that my name isnt michael (which it is!), but they say, no its john. how can i put this matter to rest? its up to me to prove that my name is michael by showing a birth cert or whatever is needed... not having the other party to search for records etc to show that my name is john and not Michael... i mean if you are innocent, prove it? its much easier to end the issue... this may have confused some people, but i think you get my drift.. it would be great if i can get a hold of these papers (working on it) for proof, but there really is no need to if he has his approvals, it would really be something that Magic can settle quickly if they were in the right instead of beating around the bush not being straight with answers and just talking crap about a 'feud', when all he needs to do is go to you guys that call, yes come around or yes i'll fax you the papers, here is the proof that my cats pass, end of story...", these docs arent top secret and can be made available to anyone at request. obviously no one would ever ask for them because they expect that what they are buying is what it is claimed it is.. people can be ignorant. i noticed a previous post about 'why a company would be stupid to attempt a thing like this', but if you really think about it, it happens all the time...what would make you so suprised that a small company in the auto indusrty is never likely to rip people off? afterall, how many people do you think know how cats work and what is needed on them in order to work properly? also with regards to the 'how can you tell by looking at the cat', there is a way, not by looking for the coating, but by the 'stamp' of a number which indicates the caoting performed..these cats with these biscuits start with a 9(i think) and by the top of my head, the catco cat has a 4 or 5 digit number which indicates the coating used. the above statement is maybe not that useful, but any 'stamp' on the biscuit should indicate some sort of coating, but it doesnt mean it contains the right coating, as there are different specs for different cats, thus different numbers. hmmm, maybe the way the magic cat actually passes emissions is ...by magic? lol

sydneykid, right on the ball there. those materials (which cost $$$ e.g. platinum) need to be coated on the steel mesh. ceramic honeycombs are composed of this already, not coated. anyways, i know that he would have said something like that to you Shaun, as if he would say anything else to a customer. it also wasnt me, as i havent met him or spoken to him.. i will find out whether i can get a hold of these failed test papers of the magic cat and will post on this thread. im quite sure there was testing done with these cats (along with others) recently, and it failed miserably. i sell catco products because i believe they are excellent in quality, design and pass emissions test. the new catco cat, which has the exact same insides (but coated mesh) and an even bigger body (5" not 4") would flow even better than the magic cat. so you will notice the same or even better flow characteristics on the dyno as the magic cat. its quite simple anyways, it can all be quickly resolved if he can provide evidence of the emissions passing on that specific cat and the appropriate papers. we have got a third party to request them on our behalf and have been waiting for them for a few months now....even after several calls from the third party...we know we wont get to see them because they dont exist. why? because you cant get approval papers for a cat that fails...!

thanks skyl9 grandmasterb, yes i will be talking with CATCO and ask them for a group buy price. im assuming if we can get 10 ppl, then it will drop nicely. thanks for being first in line bobjones, well the mesh is fine, as the catco cat uses the exact same stainless steel mesh in its new cat, BUT its mesh with coatings on it specifically made to decrease the pollutant levels, and therefore your emissions will pass within the criteria set out by the epa. this coating is the main part of the cat, and what makes it a cat, not the body or the bare mesh itself. the mesh plays the part in flow, but doesnt burn the pollutants out, unless it has a coating with the right materials over it. cheers

hi guys i have noticed a few threads regarding this 'magic cat'. first off, the main reason everyone knows about it is because it was shown in Zoom. Now im going to let in on some important inforamtion that Zoom left out (because they werent told) and what the Magic cat manufacturer doesnt want you to know...(also, many of the numbers regarding the fines etc in the article are wrong or mixed up...which is not Zooms fault but Magic's fault for not providing correct information). The stainless steel 'biscuits' used in these Magic CATs dont have ANY COATING on them. For those that dont know what im talking about, in simple terms, you are paying for a metal mesh and a pipe, not a CAT. to actually pass any emissions tests, the steel biscuit needs to be coated with the right materials so when the exhaust gas flows through it, they 'get rid off' the majority of the hazardous gases and you get a good reading on the meter and the EPA is happy. how do i know this about Magic's cats? well, first of all, Magic use the same biscuits as CATCO in their NEW cat, so CATCO knows the inside info and has passed it on to me. However the MAJOR difference is that CATCO gets these same biscuits coated (extra $$$). you will notice that there are no numbers on the magic cats biscuits. there is a number (cant think of it at the top of my head) which is supposed to be 'stamped' on the stainless steel biscuit to indicate the coating performed on the biscuit. if you are pesimistic about my thread, then ask Magic for the certification papers to verfy that the cats he is selling pass emissions...the short answer from him may be 'i dont have them' if he is feeling honest, or the long answer will be, i have them somewhere here..blabla..i'll fax them to you..and then a few months later, still no documents...or who told you this? why? because i know for a fact he doesnt have them. the NEW CATCO cat has these same biscuits, but are actually coated to pass emissions.the body on the CATCO cat is 5" not 4" like the Magic cat, so expect even better flow. therefore, if you want to buy a pipe with a metal mesh inside for $200 or so, then throw your money and buy a Magic 'cat' and when you get EPA tested ,EXPECT to FAIL. ((personally id rather buy a stainless steel racing pipe for around $100, as you'll get the same reading at the EPA but more flow than the magic cat! lol)) CATCO is a catalytic converter manufacturer, Magic isnt, they just buy the cats off a catalytic converter manufacturer, after stating their specifications and then 'stamp' their company logo on the final product. i know the price is double on the CATCO cats then these Magic 'cats' with the current magic cat group buy, but afterall you are paying for the best, highest flowing quality CAT, not an overpriced pipe with a steel mesh. also the CATCO cats come with bolt on 3" piping. I know this may look like a 'my product is better' thread and 'buy from me', but those of you that actually care about wnat your hard earned money is spent on (and the environment), you will find this to be very useful information, which can only come from the inside. If people want a group buy organised, then let me know and i'll work out the best possible price for you guys. f.y.i. there was recent dyno testing done on this new cat, and the stock r32 gtst made an extra 10kwrw with just the cat changed to this one from the standard nissan cat! as cars run even more hp from standard, expect even more kwrw increase over the standard cat! well ..that is all, Michael

hi guys if anyone has a R32 GTR front grill (preferably in black), i need one! please post price here. thanks

the testing has been done! CAR: 1990 R32 GTST Type M Specs: 3.5" cat-back exhaust, everything else STOCK (even stock air filter and boost!) Plugs were changed to NGK coppers (heat range 6). Results: 148kwrw - standard dump/front pipe and standard CAT (not compliance CAT, the factory nissan CAT) standard dump/front pipe and the new Hi-flow CAT with stainless steel inside - 158kwrw. INCREASE of 10rwkw!! ...as the hp would increase on a car, so would an even bigger increase in hp compared to standard CAT and this new CAT. split dump/front pipe and standard CAT - 164kwrw. INCREASE of 16kwrw! open/bell mouth dump/front pipe and standard CAT - 156kwrw. INCREASE of 8kwrw! new split dump front pipe and the new Hi-flow CAT with stainless steel inside - 175rwkw. INCREASE of 27kwrw!!! thats more increase than a 3" CAT back exhaust- usually about 20rwkw. hope this clears a few things up about the need for a 3" hi-flow CAT and the difference between bell/open mouth and split dumps. dont have a scanner yet, but when i can post the sheets up, i will! cheers, Michael

Hi guys, A new CATCO CAT is out in the market, and this one is 304SUS (surgical stainless steel) outside, and unlike the other high flow CATs which have a ceramic honeycomb inside, this has a stainless steel honeycomb which has 200 holes per sq inch instead of 400 holes per sq inch, which basically means the holes are twice the size of the other Hi-flow CATs. It is now the highest flowing CAT on the market, which would cost in excess of $600-800 at exhaust shops. The CAT is available in 3", 3.5" or 4" piping. The actual round body of the CAT is 5". The CAT has been conveniently made as a 3" bolt on for R32 & R33 GTST/GTR, 180SX, Pulsar GTiR, R34 GTT & S14/S15 200SX) = $440 $410 for 3" Universal $470 for 3.5" Universal $480 for 4" Universal cheers, Michael

NOWHERE ELSE! They are the ONLY ones in Aus to have R32 GTR compliance. If you want to comply an R32 GTR, you have to pay up, or wait even more, and who knows when that will be... I paid $5500 for R34 compliance when it first came out through someone else, as they were the only ones doing it at the time, in the end you have to weigh things up and see whether you would rather wait for an unknown amount of time or pay extra and bring the car in asap. ...so you have 2 options, wait more months for someone else, AND most likely pay a similar price (afterall, it will still pretty much be a monopoly until there are MANY RAWS with R32 GTR compliance), or stop being a tight a.ss, pay up and bring your car over to comply it its really not that hard...

I have 3 words for all, supply and demand.

i think Hornsby Nissan is not that far from Waitara Maccas, its on the same road just a little further up. I'll be there with my brother and his Black R32 GTST, so add me to the list also!

does someone have a link to dl this software? or can someone who has it put a link up so we can dl it?

bump!

check pm chef

bump!

hi If anyone has the rear seat (bottom part and back part) for a R32 GTST, and wants to sell it, please let me know either by posting here or PM. Also tell me your price! cheers

yeh like lwells said, the owner would have taken the nice big wheels off and put the stockies back on.. Is BN the actual brand name or is that short for something??