SKiT_R31

Capslock is cruise control for cool. I have an R31 wagon, relly tidy straight car, RB20DET gearbox, 4.11 diff gears in locked diff, new excedy HD RB25DET clutch, RB30e+t with nistune remap ecu, FMIC, vlt injectors and kkr430 turbo (inc braided oil feed/custon decat dump pipe). Mechanically in good condition (you can compression test it if required) but currently wont start, not sure what the issue is ive already wated too much time fiddling with it and dont have any money to put into it. After $2k firm take it away as is. The parts are worth more than that, either fix the issue (its definitely electrical) or put a RB20/25 in it . This is it;

mistake free bump

What type of controller do you have?

How about an R32 GTR box that you could convert to RWD . $500 would probably work out cheaper for you

It definitely won’t hurt anything... Providing you have healthy coil packs and the appropriate plug gap, the engine should operate as normal. Remember though you are pulling heat out of the cylinder and slowing/cooling combustion so while the engine is safer you will lose some burn efficiency which may impact light throttle economy/power and idle quality. Generally though you won’t notice the difference until you get to 8's & 9's....

Pics?

Stock unopened RB30e Bottom end? What km's? R33 RB25DET head with VCT removed? Reason for sale?

I have a wideband 02 sensor & EGT datalogger as well as electronic knock detection (tapping into the knock sensors) and a pretty good ear . I self tuned my car a long time ago and have never had an issue; I'm just making some changes with my water+meth setup and boost delivery so i want some light ignition adjustment so I can keep low rpm economy and response. I have quite lean AFR's (13:1), high compression (10:1), 20degree's timing running stock boost (6.5psi) before 4500rpm, where I wish to richen the mixture to 12:1 (currently at 12.5:1) I then wish to retard the timing ~ 5 degree's, up the boost to 10-12psi and run water+meth injection (boost activated at 7.5psi). Currently I have 2 tunes, my econo-daily tune, and my power tune with high boost (which i have to retard the base timing) that utilises the water+meth injection. All I am trying to do is incorporate both into the one usable tune (as its a paint in the ass to change and test every time) a compromise of having the power >4500rpm with the economy and response below it (without wasting the water+meth in daily driving). My EGT's are loving it, I have no issues with detonation, relax kids it's not that high strung, I know what I’m doing, done it all too many times. These piggy backs take basic rpm points to make adjustments with, quite easy to do on the street. Aftermarket management has multiple load points and variations which would make it a nightmare to tune on the street. It would be a headache to have to tune it on the track and I don’t want to pay for it to be left it in the hands of a Dyno tuner. And after all, it is just my daily which I’m only trying to get a bit more out of - I’m not building a ball breaking monster.

I do agree that nistune is a great option, especially for a budget, but it’s just not what I'm after for this car. I'm happy with the stock tune; I just want to make mild adjustments here and there. This is still more cost effective than a nistune, without having to wire in a Z32 ECU (to keep VCT) and make other modifications for my Active LSD/AWD. Plus, simple fuel and ignition adjustments for correct mixtures are fine and easy to do myself, but a full tune with aftermarket management isn’t something that I’d want to tackle my self as it really requires a Dyno. A nistune is definitely going to be my choice for my RB30DET (with RB20 ecu) build, as it has different cams, injectors, ecu, compression and capacity. But my R33 is a daily and has all standard running gear (turbo/injectors/afm etc) and perfect drivability, I’m just after some mild adjustment to give it a bit more response down low and allow me to run a bit more boost and drop the ignition timing up top.

Why if you have an Auto skyline? PFC's for RB25's are well over $1k, I've already got an AFC Neo (cost $250) which I fitted my self, and i can get an S-ITC for $150 locally which i can also fit myself. This looks like it should do what I need it to do, cheers though.

Sorry, answered my own question, kept googling and found an english manual. Its +/- 15 DEGREE's, and it blends like the SAFC.

Just bumping an old thread here (sorry about that) but what is the adjustment on an S-ITC? I'm looking at getting one to increase my timing before boost and drop it a bit in the top end. I googled them, and here http://www.ca.dsm.org/ARB/apexi_sitc.html it says + or - 15%, now 15% is SFA (on 15 degree base timing I’ll only get another couple degrees) is that correct? Or is it + or - 15 degrees (which would make more sense)? Also, is it a blanket increase over the range (between rpms) then a spike to the next setting, or does it smooth and blend like an SAFC?

But where's the fun in that! Seriously though, it really is the best option. The car will be much more reliable, already setup with drivetrain/suspension/brakes and can make the power you’re probably after with only basic mods, all day everyday (and you won’t have to think about it again).

The easier the engine can breathe the better. You want the ideal air speed at your peak power (too big will lose power and will bog the car down somewhat at lower rpm, just like an oversize exhaust), but just because it’s not hitting mach 5, doesn’t mean the engine isn’t working harder than it has to fill the cylinders. I would assume he meant a wide band for monitoring, not for the engine. I.e. either a datalogger or just a simple gauge. While 'knock ears' are a good idea, they are not required, you can simply monitor EGT's (And tune against them) as reliably (whilst listening for audible pinging). Makes the engine rev quicker (less VALVEtrain loss) the BMW M5 for example, has hollow cam shafts Engines don’t rev by magic, they have to breathe. Have you ever driven a carby car? Hold it flat to the floor and it will top out (wont just rev until it pops) and that’s without a limiter. Fitting a larger carby will push the revs further until the choking point is the cam. EFI cars don’t have this problem as they generally have much larger TB's (than the same in a carby would have, among other things) therefore cut revs with a limiter.

While some of MAD-MAX's methods may be un-orthodox and quite old school backyarder, it doesn’t mean he is wrong. And I do believe he has a lot more hands on experience than most of the people posting in this thread. Doesn’t mean his info is suitable for the OP, but it is interesting to hear and once you sift through there might be 1 or 2 things you can take from it. I’ve learnt a lot from old school backyarders, stuff that people just learn is best from 50 years tinkering, not from reading dribble on the internet. That said, you need to be able to filter information into relevance and accuracy, just because it was the best option then doesn’t mean it’s the best option now. But other things, things that had to be done to make shitty old engines make big numbers, a lot of the time are still applicable today, and can be put into modern builds, just most people don’t bother as it’s just easier to fit a bigger turbo or boost it. I’ve seen people make a lot more power with L28’s and 202’s than what we seem to be able to make with RB30DE’s which are a far superior starting point. The Shits and giggles reasoning is the best, it’s why I do most of my stuff I do, that’s what it’s all about imo. Just want to clear some stuff up at risk of flamage, Carb's (while they are definitely old tech) are cheap/easy to come by and are easy to tune if you know what you’re doing. And I agree that they would be an excellent budget way to fuel a car with a massive cam over injection. The reason is, all the air being breathed by the engine is pre mixed with fuel, so regardless of how much of it end up going out the exhaust (ignoring emissions, let’s say for track) you are always going to have the correct air fuel ratio. Whereas injection, especially shithouse multipoint like our RB's have, fill the intake runners (when the valves are closed) with fuel, then when it opens it all blows straight out the exhaust on an overlap stroke, leaving only the fuel still being injected once the exhaust valve closes remaining in the cyl (i.e. excessively lean). Ways around this are with sequential injection (or of course if your engine is direct injection) management with massive injectors, then adjusting the injector timing so that it only sprays when the intake valve is open and the exhaust valve is closed. While of course possible, the management and injectors cost a fair bit of cash, plus it needs a lot of dyno time to tune (can't just be done on the street with a wideband). For those who don’t know, an injector at 100% duty cycle isn’t an injector open for the entire intake stroke; it is an injector that is simply open the entire time. Of course the solution is to just not run a massive cam, but the point is if you want to run a massive cam "for shits and giggle" on the cheap, this is probably a good option. Sifting through, another thing is fuel pressure for fuel adjustment. Of course you can’t adjust it at specific revs, it’s a blanket change over the whole range - but that’s not a bad thing. I've got -30% taken off the entire rev range on my SAFC, increasing to about 35% up top. If I was to blanket drop just 30%, I’m still a lot better off than where I was before. Lowering the fuel pressure does complicate things, it effects spray pattern among other things, but raising it a couple on a lean motor (maybe when running high oxygen fuel), or dropping it <5psi on a rich motor (monitoring fuel mixtures at light-mid and full throttle on a data logger) is a cheap and easy way to blanket change your mixtures over the whole rev range. I've done it multiple times before with no problems, I've run higher pressure and tuned an ecu leaner to get more flow out of injectors, and I’ve wound the pressure back to get a turbo car (RB30ET) into more reasonable fuel mixtures (since there is no cheap add on like SAFC available). While they're not the most ideal solutions, if it works and it’s your best option (cost/availability etc) then why the f**k not imo.

That didn’t really have much to do with the current topic (gearboxes). But, <200kW treat it with respect - the gearbox will handle without any problems. To get more than 200kW out of a factory N/A your going to want to spend big bicky's on a decent turbo, aftermarket management, FMIC, a clutch to suit, etc - so investing in a turbo gbox shouldn’t really be much of a concern (just like the RB20DET boys looking to make big figures)

Cost me easy under $1500 total to turbo my R33. Inc injectors, ecu, R33 cooler piping & crossover pipe, R34 SMIC, R34 turbo, R33 factory dump pipe, braided oil feed line, custom drain, inc misc fittings/nuts/bolts/gaskets. Did all the work my self piece of piss over a weekend. Ran fine on stock ignition timing on stock boost, with more power than a factory RB25DET and spooling at <2000rpm. Only issue was I couldn’t really up the boost without winding the timing back, but I like my response so that wasn’t an option. 98ron is a must have, engine coolant temperatures are fine (with N/A single core radiator) with water lined hooked up on turbo (MUST). Oil does get quite hot and mineral oil thins out fast, so I recommend a good quality fully synthetic. I also changed my spark plugs to a colder heat rating and stock turbo gap (BCPR7ES), and i already had both splitfires and a HD GTR clutch (which you may have to factor into price). For more power i added pre throttle body water + meth injection (50/50), cost $300 for everything, this allowed to safely up my boost up to around 9-10psi (I didn’t want an FMIC, with one you could run the same boost without the meth) and made 164kW at all four wheels on 9psi (10psi or higher was giving me boost spikes, not pinging but causing R&R after spike). As per any stock RB25, above 5000rpm was excessively rich, in the high 10's low 11's A/F ratio (not a problem) But or some reason between ~ 3000 and 3500rpm i had a massive lean spike (~15:1), as if the car was rpm/tps mapped and not airflow mapped. As the more boost it ran, the leaner, the less - the richer. Stock boost had a perfect 12.5:1 AF/R. $250 later i fitted an SAFC (AFC neo) but no matter how much fuel i tried to give it, at WOT between those rpm's, fuel mixtures didn’t change (but did on light throttle). After that, using my own wideband data logger I tuned the rest of the WOT maps to ~13:1 down low, 12.5:1 mid trailing to 12:1 in the top end and returned the car to stock boost (makes a lot more power than it did previously on stock boost, just from fuel adjustment). A normal person would probably go after market management at this point, another option would be an electronic boost controller like an AVCR to increase boost after the lean spike (i think this lean spike is isolated to my car, nfi why). My next plan is to get the water+meth on again, this time pre-turbo, using multiple ultra fine mist/fog spray's (to avoid damaging the turbo), along with a dual stage boost controller activating high boost (9-10psi) at the 4500rpm using the ecu's factory earth switch (normally used for the factory boost controller) with the water+meth injection starting just above stock boost (stock boost is ~ 6.5psi, so I’d set it to 7.5psi). The trick with using water spray pre-turbo, is it is much more efficient at cooling as it cools during compression (when the boost pressure it much hotter and higher than what hits the pipes) which increases turbo efficiency and as air cools as it decompresses, is much more efficient at cooling (with the high humidity boost then being more knock resistant within the engine). This plus my tune (Fuel maps, plus i have raised ign timing to 20 degree's), I am hoping for >180kW atw (250whp is my goal). Sorry for rambling slightly off topic, but it might be interesting for N/A+T goer's.

Nice car man, that would be a good weapon for a P plater. I really wouldnt go any lower, some times opeople are wary of cheap cars too, could scare them off - better to have a higher price but be flexible (opeople are always happier thinking they've saved money by knocking you down). You just have to be patient, advertise elsewhere etc. The problem is, that car is most suited for P platers, and due to the type of car its probably out of budget for the P plater crowd. Some cashed up youth will see this and be all over it like a fat kid on a cupcake, just have to wait for him/her.

Yeah, R33 GTS4 boxes are the same as the R32 GTR box but with slightly different gear ratio's. N/A boxes are more like RB20DET spec, they'l cope fine with gentle shifts and limited clutch drops (pending grip) but the power will eventually wear them out and make them sing. Hard shifting is likely to smash a selector and damage teeth, and high power high grip/load clutch drops will just shatter the box into multiple peices. I've gone through one in my R31 (RB30e+t), the synchro's were always knackered and it started to sing badly after a couple years - boosted it in reverse once and chipped a tooth off (so reverse used to click) once i got a replacement box (reco RB20DET) took a couple clutch drops and flatshifts before i smashed the box to peices. I've been much gentler on the new box and have had no issues.

Oh really? Interesting, thanks.

The jarcar one sounds interesting, i'll look into it. Cant use the factory boost controller as I dont have one, as the car was originally N/A and runs the N/A loom. Cheers

I'm after an electronic boost controller, but want to run close to stock boost until around 3500-4000rpm at which point i want to hit high boost & water spray (water spray is boost activated set for high boost). Dont really want any other features, so cheaper the better... Any reccomendations?

It’s obviously not going to gain big numbers but there is a gain, some engines benefit more than others - some like the plug facing other directions as well. The idea is also that you start the burn on the intake for it to burn across in the direction of the exhaust, intake side is also generally the most fuel saturated and colder side so any help to even the burn is good. As long as you have the right sized copper washer it can’t go down the hole (as it has to fit around the plug thread) and once squished is going to take sfa of the plug out of the cyl, you are not going to lose power from any change in compression, that’s like saying multi-ground electrodes make more power because they take up more space (but they lose power as they cover the spark). I'm also a big fan of having all cylinders symmetrical, if all your plugs are matched, your cyl's have equal compression and your injecting the same amount of air (and most ideal if your intake runners and exhaust primary's flow equally) you can usually get that extra couple degree's timing or slightly leaner mixtures to produce more power before you start to get detonation (whereas normally the lean hot cyl will ping earlier than the rest making you lax the tune early). But yeah, it’s just one of those basic efficiency's, it doesn’t hurt you to do it and nets a kw or 2, if your chasing power that’s hard to get (like in an N/A) every kW counts.

The dyno will give the torque reading at the wheels, so if you did it in each gear you could find the ideal shift point which includes both engine output and gearing. My factory N/A does ~ 53kmph in first and ~88kmph in second, 140kmph in 3rd and 180kmph in fourth, 4.36:1 Final Drive Ratio with R32 GTR gearbox (a couple kph taller than the stock N/A box) RB25DE's run similar gbox ratio's to RB20DET gearboxes, so longer first, not sure about second.

There are zillions of these threads atm... Legal mods? There aren’t many... When my car was N/A the first thing I did to it was fit an ultra lightweight flywheel (like 4kg), if you can find one second hand its not too pricey and it made my car a lot zippier (great improvement for off the line acceleration in a low powered car). Next would be an LSD for better launches (factory turbo would be fine, just get an auto diff so you don’t lose your short gearing), then light weight rims. Make sure your car is in good service shape, run decent low viscosity synthetic oil, fresh spark plugs and good coil packs, using copper washers to index the plugs to face the intake will give you a small gain as well. Clean the AFM, professionally clean and flow match the injectors (to factory specs, if not possible buy new ones), high flow non oiled panel filter, check your thermo fan is loose to spin, when they get old they will tighten which over spins them and saps power (and makes your car sound like a falcon). Personally I prefer electronic thermo's (I've had a bad run, lost 1 water pump and 2 radiators to these bastards) but each to their own, just make sure its in good shape - if not then replace. Turn off your A/C!!! Run ethanol blend fuel like E10 98ron this is just my opinion, not all share it (imo N/A RB's run better on ~ E10, leans out the richer mixes and cleans all the carbon and shit out of them, plus bonus is its cheaper) replace your fuel lines if you are concerned about them (I have never had a problem but its cheap and easy to do). Advance your ignition timing to match the fuel, 20degree's is usually recommended but I was able to go a considerable amount further without any detonation issues with performance gains. Weight reduction never hurts, chuck out your sub or any other crap in your car, keep less fuel in your car and just top it up more often (i.e. live on 1/4 and just put $20 in it every time you pass the servo), in some states its legal to ditch the spare wheel/jack/tools and just have that tyre fix in a can. Thats pretty much all you can get away with doing to your car, it should make it quite snappy and run smooth as well as net you excellent economy.