Sathanas

Few things to clear up here. For starters there was no VZ GTS. You probably mean the Clubsport, and the LS2 sounds a whole lot sweeter then the LS1 i agree. The 6 speed auto isnt a ZF its a GM unit, the 6L60E, which although isnt quite as good as the ZF is still a mean gearbox. Im sure it isnt the "technology" thats preventing Holden from putting out 350 kw. I mean they could do a simple edit, but thenn theyd have emission problems etc, plus there wouldnt be a lot of headroom for a future power path. Holden also doesnt use SOHC, they use OHV (over head valve), the SOHC Ford is the 220kw version in the ghias, and theyre pretty crappy. The DOHC engine is used in the XR8 (not FPV) and the GT and GT-P

The Typhoon is capable of a 12.9 pass. Check this out: http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=53510 If you people count an air filter as a massive mod, then you're clutching at straws

I meant the skylines were built to be sporty etc. Not the Commodores

Yes i agree with the build quality. My dash is falling apart..... But I had $5000 to spend on a car 3 years ago, it was fast, it was in good condition, so i thought it was a good deal. Given the oppurtunity again I probably wouldn't have bought it again, maybe saving a little more for a R32 GTSt or something. Which is what im saving for atm. These days the build quality of cars such as Land Rovers (I worked at a Land Rover servicing place for a while) is decreasing, almost to coincide with warranty running out. (A new mirror and servo's costs about $1600 for a Discovery 3). Thats how they're making their money unfortunately. But yes i agree on the Skylines being better built cars. Although it wasn't particularly fast, the NA R33 i was in was solidly built, and looked great! Hence the reason I want one.

You must be the brains of the outfit. Cars are cars. Each with their own different qualities. Skylines are fast and nimble, Commodores are more practical and cheap. Maybe not that fast anymore. Damn clutch has ruined thrush bearings. New brakes today though But i think it would still crack a 15.6 at least. Note to kids: Do not attack your own heads with a dremel, it can lead to unpredictable results..... Like saving nearly a second off your ET.

Mmmm despite the claimed power outputs of the VZ, the 175 kw version is very doughy, although the 190 kw version is very very quick. Dont know why but there seems to be more then a 15 kw difference between the two..... As to the NA 3.8's verses GTSs, well my VP must be a freak, or the previous owner cammed it without telling me (15.4 1/4), but I know without a doubt there would be no comparison between the two. The massive torque available from down low in the range is enough to get the jump, and the GTS just doesnt have the top end to catch it. But in the looks stakes......Vp Wagons unfortunately dont go down well with the fairer sex....

Man, sounded like something really went pear shaped... The real question is, why did you give it to it when lining up against the HQ? Can't believe what a massive failure that was though. Ahh well, at the moment i'm seriously open minded about what car to get next.....about 15k budget.

What Skyline do you own? And to all those ex Commodore owners saying "i blew 7 diffs and 4 gearboxes in my first month of owning one" seriously what do you do to these family cars that destroys them so quickly? I give my VP an absolute hammering most of the time, it still goes hard and the only thing that has gone wrong was the clutch (after 230,000 k). No blown head gaskets, diffs falling out, gearboxes exploding into the cabin or whatever catastrophic accidents that seem to happen to all of you.... I'm confident in its mechanical shape enough that i'm selling it to a best mate who lives about 8 ks from me. Next car will hopefully be a Mark IV Supra, you can pick them up for around the 16k mark if you know where to look. Failing that, yes probably something like a R32 GTR or something. Or a VS SS, but that wont be left stock for too long. They arent all that exciting performance wise, I mean my wagon can usually beat them......nuff said. But the V8 has so much more potential then the V6

I hope you're referring to the RB30 engine ie from R31 days. Because i know stroker kits for the RB26 engines are amazingly expensive.... (think $28000+) 2JZ's are better engines then the RB26, but probably not good enough to warrant an entire engine swap. Better off going for the 1JZ, which are around half the cost, and of similiar potential. 1JZs are a LOT better then the RB25s

Heh, you come on a Skylines forum asking a serious question about a VT (the slowest of all the V6 Commodores) vs an Auto NA Skyline? The Skyline would get chopped, simple. I've been in a manual one with really bad mags and a ridiculous sized cannon (which were the only two standout features of it, the acceleration certainatly wasnt) and i know that it would get hammered by anything this side of a VN. In fact except probably for the Starfire 4 Commodore (what were Holden thinking?) no commodore should lose to a NA Auto Skyline. And also to you people out there commenting on cost vs performance...... A Commodore is a family car. The V8 is there for people who dont want a bog stock V6. They are not, nor will they ever be, designed to be a sports car, hence why your GTST's will beat them, with the exception of most of the HSV's. They were built to be fast, sporty cars with great handling.....

Hmm, a 160 kw Skyline beat down a VY Senator?? Quit amazing. Senators are farkin heavy, but I guess a Clubsport would give you a little more of a go

There are good an bad drivers, no matter what car they drive. I DO see a lot of tosser commodore owners, but i also see wankers in their lancers and skylines, hell i even saw some guy in a black supra in ballarat who thought it was the fastest thing on wheels. NA Manual..... Calder Park seperates them all. No loser flybuys, everyones nice, andbest of all, no cops

VN V8's arent quick. At all. I saw one at Calder Park, and it was going around the carpark revving, and he had his "burnout" steelies on the back, had one headlight out for "extra air", then he ran a 16.1 Thats obviously a slow one, but even still, noise doesnt equal speed. Just look at the 400,000 lancers civics pulsars etc with 6" tips Btw for the record, my VP V6 wagon with no mods except for some headwork by me with a dremel ran a 15.4. Wierd eh?

Hmm, as a Commodore owner, i see it the other way. Im driving around, and its as if "p plates + commodore = race". Every wanker in their VN V8 Exec wants a go. As if theyre original. I mean they sound good, but they're probably the worst capacity to power engines ever made, at least EFI ones anyway. And it does work the other way. I cant remember the amount of guys in their (usually) NA R33 wanting a race because they think they are some kind of import champion. And NA Skylines arent all that fast... But i think that WRX owners are the wort. They must think they are some kind of WRC champ, because they spool their engines and tear off, whilst i leave the lights in 1st, changing at about 2.5k

Mmm centrifugal chargers are wanna be superchargers. But roots style blowers are still expensive. You seen that double charged LS1 with a centrifugal pumping air into an Eaton? Now thats an engine! I'd wonder how horsepower heros will go this year? Will it be taken out by Eddie Tassone's boost spiking cheat machine, or will an LS1 stand up and finally kick the ancient Holden 5 litre off the podium?

True that. What other car can get another 40-50 rwkw with a $1000 tune? Cam, springs, exhaust and you're looking at 300 rwkw for about 4 grand. And with awesome economy still because of the tune. I'm talking 10 litres/100 km. And the aftermarket support is massive and growing. Twin turbo kits, 427 strokers, the list goes on. I mean CAPA sell a 4 grand supercharging kit. What other engine boasts that? (And dont bother talking about the CRS kits for the holden V6, they arent worth a pinch of shit)

I still think the Torana is a pipe dream. Holden has done it before (Monaro 427....) And if it comes out looking like the retard Astra it was, I wont be happy. The TT Alloytech was impressive however, but i just can't see a hero Holden without a thumping V8 in it. I know most of the Skyline community have some form of unnatural hatred for these engine configurations......but thats just because of all the VN V8 P Platers that think they are the fastest thing on 4 wheels. Nothing better then winning a traffic light duel with a V8 and using 1/2 the fuel he did.

Heh yeah. What program does the LS2 use to change the ECU? You only going for NA power? the Twin Turbo kits for the LS2 are incredible for their worth. I got to love the way people say that their car is a freak as an excuse of why they mysteriously beat other cars that they shouldnt. Bit like a guy from back in Ballarat who thought their NA VL automatic could beat my VP, both pretty much stock. (Mine had its head attacked with a dremel by myself. Man it chewed through bits, lucky it wasnt mine.) Now for comparisons sake, a NA VL auto could barely take a tram.

Cubes, SV8's still use the LS1. LS2's are HSV only atm. Maybe a change in the VE. In fact with this new emission laws coming in, I think they may have to use the LS2. Its a bit unfortunate because the LS2 is far superior. If i had a Skyline and i had to get something else...... I'd get (with unlimited budget) an RS6, or if i had 15k id get a VS Calais with a Super6.

Yeah true about the APS kits. They are meant for people who dont really want to research their upgrades, just wanna throw some money at a company to do it all for them. And APS get a lot of business. And for Boostn6Potter beating an XR6 in his RB20, i cant believe that. He musnt of being going for it, unless you got it second hand, and the previous owner fiddled with the boost . And as for the Typhoon vs the GTR, well its no contest. 4 wheel traction just obliterates whatever power advantage the Typhoon has. All this talk makes me want to get a Skyline. I'd love an XR6, but finances sort of kills me. But once im rid of my VP, a new car it is.

All good points. But seriously, the XR6-T weighs 1690 kilos. Not sure how much the Skyline weighs, but taking its power to be 186 vs 240. The power-weight ration of the XR6-T is about 7.4:1. For the skyline to haave the same it would have to weigh 1376 kilos. And the the torque comes in. 296 vs 450. Quite a difference. And everyone knows that torque wins duels, not outright power. And mumbo #5, i didnt quite get all that you said. Something about Bathurst and 135%. And Nizpro had to limit the torque output of their engine because it DID keep blowing gearboxes.

"I beat an xr6 turbo in my r32 gts t easily. What do you guys say about that? Oh and the limits to modifying an xr6 is so tight " Ok i joined this forum just to say something about this quote. I'm a devout Holden man myself, through and through, but i must say i respect the Ford 4 litre six. With the POSSIBLE exception of the 2JZ, i have to say the Ford 4 litre has the highest potential for power of any straight six in the world. This, my skyline loving friends includes the almighty RB26. I'm sure most of you have heard of a little performance company called "Nismo". Well they managed, with little trouble, to evoke 1000 hp out of a 4 litre. They stopped there because the torque kept demolishing any gearbox they could throw at it. And they sell this 1000 hp engine in a package for about 40 grand. Not sure if these plans are still going ahead, but it was to be installed into a drag chassis capable of low 7's/high 6's. Oh and as for a R33 gts-t vs a xr6-t, well i myself have bourne witness to this event, and trust me, the R33 stands no chance