warps

Just backing up a bit - why do you want a car that slides well? Do you intend to take it to drift meets etc, or are you of the "quiet industrial area late at night" brigade? See where I'm going with this? If you want to go to drift days, then I guess either of the cars you mentioned will work, as will a cheap S13 - S14 Silvia or R32 GTSt etc. You seem to have the right idea about saving like mad to build up a deposit on a house. That in itself can save you hundreds of $k later in life, and can be the difference between being financially comfortable, and being another joe average complaining that the government isn't doing enough for them. You're young. Even 5 years of sacrifice now will set you up so much better later in life, and you'll still be able to look at interesting, fun cars when you get older. Do you really think that when you're 35 years old you're going to lament not having a S2k in your teens, when there's a brand new Porsche (or your exotic of choice) parked in your driveway? Credit ratings are all fine and that, but if you can show that you've been able to save $100k in 5 years, while paying for food, rent, etc then this is also a very good sign to the banks (even though they'll see you can probably manage your money too well, and they won't make as much out of you in interest payments). When you do buy a house, make do with something modest to start with. Don't go for the McMansion at the beginning. Work you way up, so you're always living within your means, and you will protect yourself against downturns.

The LS into RX7 conversion has a couple of drawbacks. Either the engine sits too high (raising COG and needing a bonnet bulge), or you have to mod the Xmember to lower the engine. This required modded "dropped" tie rod ends which apparently bugger up steering geometry and induce bump steer. Might be able to dry sump the engine to lower its height and alleviate these problems. But yes, LS into anything would be a good conversion (personally I'd like an old Beemer 540i, with 520 badges and a tricked up LS6 under the bonnet.) Could have picked up a 540i for a few grand a year ago, but don't have time for such silly conversions.

WIth the torque of the LS1, I think you will be shredding tyres regardless of what gear you're in. I reckon you'll be doing 2nd gear starts, then dropping it into 4th and leaving it there. Gravel cars are set up softer than tarmac, purely because grip levels aren't as high, and they tend to be set up higher than tarmac cars. It's all about suspension travel (look at how far a WRC car moves on its springs and you get an idea). I'd suggest for a budget kit you could try new inserts (shock absorbers) with your stock springs. You might find you need to go slightly stiffer. Running it through my SWAG software (Sweet Wild Arsed Guess) Id be suggestng 25% stiffer than stock to start with. Coilovers will give you much better choice in springs and easier ride hight adjustment, but will cost more. Just be careful becasue most of the off the shelf coilover kits will have reduced travel, as they are set up for tarmac racing. This is not a good thing for gravel rallying. As has been said before, if your local rally roads are fairly smooth, then you will get away with less suspension travel, and lighter springs. In that case, the stock springs with decent (eg Bilstein) shocks will be the go. If you're starting to bottom out / run out of suspension, then look towards coilovers (either custom made from stock gear, or something off the shelf to suit gravel). One thing to be very aware of is that gravel rally tyres are almost impossible to find in 16" or bigger, so you will need to run 15" rims on your car. AFAIK, 15's won't fit over R33 GTST brakes. You'll need to look at options here and spend some $$. Not an insurmountable problem, but just a spanner in the works.

Agree on all points.

Regardless of what the specs say, Cooper S's are an absolute hoot! I've never has as much fun driving anything else (except on a race track / closed stage). My daily is a 09 WRX and the Cooper S are much more involving and rewarding to drive. They bring back the old school mini feel without sacrificing modern comfort / convenience. the later turbo ones are surprisingly quick, and won't struggle on hills / overtaking etc. I've managed some big overtaking moves on b doubles etc on relatively short straights. I don't own one, but have hired several for drives from Sydney to the hunter valley / Mudgee (always through the twisty back roads of course). They handle extremely well (although torque steer can be violent on uneven roads) I say go for it. They are a fun, all round package, and despite what others might think, are well put together.

Dale I'm not quite sure whether you were agreeing with me or not, so I'll just set the record straight. Yes, gravel cars have high rear brake bias. This is compared to a standard road car, or tarmac race car. They generally won't have the rears locking well before the fronts on gravel, as this makes them too taily. Granted, there are lots of individual preferences, and many have found that something that feels fast (ie gets loose every time you look at the brakes) might actually be slower. You don't want to compromise straight line braking too much though. Pulling up in a straight line from 150+ on gravel can be hairy if the rear is trying to overtake you the whole way. If it gets light and starts dancing around a bit, then you can choose when to hang it out in prepration for the corner. I guess what I'm saying is that "rear brake bias" can mean different things to different people, and most will have their own preferences. Gainsy's 240K is music to the ears, and a ver fast gravel car. I'd hate to think how much money he's spent developing it though. It's hardly what anyone would call a budget rally car.

Just be mindful that it will go wherever the car is pointing, and apparently it can be fairly violent. If the car already has a viscous LSD, then try that first. Otherwise, give the locker a go. As I said, some love it, some hate it. It's good to have a car that gets light under brakes on gravel, to allow you to point the car into a corner. The rule of thumb is that if the rears lock up just before the fronts on tarmac, then the balance should be pretty close for gravel (less weight transfer). This still gives good straight line braking, but will let you steer under brakes and move the rear around to set it up for a corner. I find with good brake balance, you almost never need the handbrake. Yeh it's more important to have a laugh than go for outright championships, so then it probably doesn't matter what you're driving as long as it's fun. I had seriously thouhgt about a R32 GTSt in PRC, but realised for the cost of building it properly, I could buy a well sorted State winning EVO and have change left over to learn to drive it. In fact, I know for a fact that the $10k Honda I bought will hose the GTSt at the gravel events I've attended so far.

Never driven with a locker in a RWD on dirt, but there are 2 camps. Some, like Dale, hate them, others love them. The general consensus is that you have to attack with them, as they'll push through corners off throttle. They can be fast if you know how to drive them, apparently. The TX3 isn't a bad choice - there are a couple of fairly quick gravel spec TX3's around, and I'm pretty sure that LSD's and CR gear sets are available for them, but I don't know too much more than that (Mazda running gear I believe). There's a guy in a fairly stock 1.8 TX3 who runs at willowbank autocross and he usually beats most of the RWD guys. The R33 should be fun on the dirt, and on stock springs with decent inserts the suspension will be ok for most of the smooth stuff but might struggle in rough / jumps. However, your shocks will have a much bigger impact performance than springs will. Don't expect to win too many championships, but it might surprise you. My personal opnion is that a well balanced car can be quicker overall than something much faster but not as well behaved. If you have confidence in your car you can drive it at the limit, whereas something twitchy might want to throw you off the road at the next corner, so you'll never be confident to drive at its limit. That's what my RX2 was like - lots of power and potentially very fast, but fought you every step of the way. As far as geometry goes, couple of degrees camber and 3-4 degrees caster is pretty standard for gravel RWD's, but everyone has their preference. Again, I personally like to keep the settings a bit more neutral to maintain straight line stability, without sacrificing too much corner grip. I like to choose when the car will be sideways, and when it will be straight.

The Charades are OK but a bit fragile for gravel duties. Applause or Detom are the go with the "big block" 1.6 (just don't fall for the hype and pay for a Detom when it has vbery little to offer over a standard G20X 1.6 engine). Gearboxes and diffs are made from cheese, although Albins do a gearset (and CW&P I believe). Structurally they are ok, but again a bit fragile. My first rally in the (G102) charade proved it didnt like jumps as much as the old datto used to (well, duh!!). Mine was fully seam welded and comprehensive cage, which is probably all that held it together. Good choices for FWD rally cars are 4age corollas, EG onwards Civics (b16a or better), Mivec mirages, Suzi swifts and some of the hotter pulsars. There are probably other good choices, but these seem to be doing the best in local events. Oh, and of course the motorsport bargain of the century - an Excel series car. Don't ever under estimate them.

Not as much as you think. Any car will need decent suspension on gravel. FWD / RWD - makes no difference. LSD and CR box in a FWD will make a difference, but the same goes for RWD too. Contrary to the uneducated opinions, FWD's do go sideways, just in a different way to RWD. A FWD is more sensitive to geometries than a RWD, so that's what I meant about well set up. Mine has Bilstein coilovers, stock engine, CR box and LSD (and the usual rally car bits that are essential for any gravel car). It's hardly a big dollar machine Many of the excels out there have been built on a shoe string budget, and go very well. Have a go with the Cordia at a khanacross and see how you go. I'd say the limiting factor will be whether you can cope with the FWd driving style (much more attack needed than RWD). You need big balls to drive them really fast (which is why mine is not really fast) If you do get an R31, don't waste time with the RB20. RB30 will be plenty wuick enough in the gravel, yet remain PRC legal. There's a quick one running in QLD (which was for sale a few months ago) Unlike tarmac, horsepower isn't the be all in gravel rallying. In fact, Ryan Smart is winning the ARC and he is still running the turbo restrictor, despite them no longer being compulsory in the ARC.

FWD's regularly punch above their weight on the loose stuff. Stock standard Excels hose much "faster" cars regularly. In my Civic, I usually take out my class (U16), as well as top 3 in the U2L and O2L in the 2WD categories, as well as a few of the AWD's in the dirt sprints I attend. Might be a different story in the forests, but I know that with a good steerer, my car is capable of top ten finishes at state level. Well set up and driven FWD rally cars will almost always be quicker than their RWD cousins. Heck, I've seen some unlikely FWD's hose faster RWD cars (including a bock stock TR Magna auto) You don't need a LSD and CR box, but it always helps. The general consensus is that a welded diff in a FWD is a very bad idea.

Racer Industries at Southport do the Schroth harnesses and usually have them all in stock so you can check them out if you're interested in that brand. That's where I bought mine - prices were good too. The Schroth are very easy to adjust (come and check them out if you like - I'm just at Coomera). I had a pair of Willans in my Charade rally car about 10 years ago and they were awful to adjust. This is going back many years, so I can't say anything authoritative about the new stuff. They are certainly known for quality harnesses, though.

those be MA61 supra rims

Meh, he would have run rings around him - DRS or not - because he is so awesome. Didn't you learn anything from the last race? Weber is the most skilled overtaker out there. period. Even without DRS he was carving up the opposition like they were standing still. That can only be put down to brilliant race craft and an abundance of talent.

Yeh that's exactly what I was thinking. It wasn't the wild ride through twisty tarmac forest roads that scared me (I was actually crouched down in the nav seat giggling like a maniac). It was the thought of myself driving the car anywhere near as hard as that that really made me worry. It seemed to wind out to the limiter in fifth even on the shortest straights, then braking for the next corner was mind blowing. This was on worn out gravel tyres, too. I'm getting excited just thinking about it. Your new toy looks and sounds like it'll be a hoot as well.

Scrap metal? I could almost cry. That was my first 1600 and I drove half way around Australia in it. I'm still dabbling with rally cars - have an ex-ARC Honda Civic at present, and am looking very closely at an EVO rally car (although after going for a run in it yesterday, I have to admit that I'm scared of it)

I was saying that decent coilovers will cost at least that. whether you need to spend that sort of coin on a car depends on what you need the car for. Most street cars won't. Second hand is playing russian roulette. Get them thoroughly checked out by an independent 3rd party before you buy. All the 2nd hand shocks (Konis, Prodra G's) I've bought have been stuffed and not worth repairing, despite looking fantastic and being "rebuildable". You might pick up a good Bilstein / Kings setup from another muppet who just had to have the latest brand coilovers for his street terror so by all means shop around. If Gary (Sydneykid I think his name was here) is still around these forums, contact him. He sets up many race cars, and will give you good, no bullshit advice on suspension. Im sorry but good suspension will transform any car, and you will get far better lap times from a well sorted suspension setup than most other mods. The basic adjustability coilovers will give is: Height adjustment - although this still affects the shock travel you have available Damping (bump) - how much resistance to movement the damper offers. This is to stop the suspension bouncing as you drive along - it damps out the oscillation. The damper (shock) will allow slow movement, but will resist against hard movement. When you hit a big bump, or land from a jump, the bump damping is what stops the car from rubbing its belly on the ground, or the tyre bouncing out of contact with the road. Damping (rebound) - this is how much resistance there is to rebound, ie the wheel being pushed away from the car. After you've landed from your bump, the car will be pushed back to its normal ride height by the spring. Without reboung damping, the car will lift too far, and have to come back down again against the bump damping. The rebound damping will control the extension of the spring. Spring rates - by being able to replace springs with a large range of off the shelf springs. YOu can get virtually any length and rate you want. With your factory setup, there will only be a few springs available that will actually fit in the car, because of the physical dimensions of the springs. Damping is basically achieved by forcing fluid (oil) through a tiny hole as the shock extends or compresses. This is carefully designed and calibrated (called the valving) to control how much bump and rebound there is, and these have to be matched to the car's weight and spring rates. Over time the valves wear out, seals wear out, oil degrades etc. Good quality gear will last longer before wearing out, and can be rebuilt by replacing these items. The cheap chinese ebay crap will wear out fast and is a throw away once worn out. But it looks nice and shiny and has clever names, so a lot of people buy them, then sell them second hand when they wear out.

Holy crap there's a blast from the past. I think I sold you a Datto 1600 rally car (the dark blue one) back in 1999 or something. I saw your name all over the pointy end of the AMSAG results tables in that car, so you seemed to have a lot more success in it than I ever did. Obviously moved onto bigger and better things since then?

I thought you meant that, just dispensing dome fatherly advice Correct - springs and shocks must always be matched for best performance. That means that lowered springs not only need to be set up with the right stroke shocks, but also the right damping rates. Don't go for lowering just for looks either. Resist the temptation to slam it coz it looks cool (this will cause all sorts of problems with handling and legality). A modest 30-40mm drop will improve handling, look fine and be legal. there's nothing wrong with coilovers - just don't buy the cheap stuff as it will cause more headache than it's worth. I don't think you'll get much decent for under $2.5 - 3k for front and back.

That's the problem with the internet. You're already buying the misinformation Your car doesn't NEED new cilovers. I have seen and built plenty of effective competition vehicles just by using good quality springs, dampers and bushes (and making sure that the geometry is well sorted). This will give you a better handling package than buying coilovers and slapping them on your car. Yes, coilovers have great street cred these days, but don't fall for the zomg dori internet hype of needing them. If you need height adjustment, and better clearance for suspension / wheels, and the ability to easily change spring rates, (in other words you plan on fine tuning the handling of a dedicated race car) then by all means. If you want something suitable for road, with the ability to take to the track, then some decent springs (Kings, Eibach) and dampers (Bilstein, Koni) will give you a great package and be reasonably priced. There are some truly awful coilover kits out there. As has probably been said, the internet and forums are great sources of general info, but make sure you challenge what you read, and try to sort the fact from the internet keyboard warrior bullshit.

Lol win

The early Rexes are OK out of the box but will need a lot of $$ to make them competitive. I guess it all depends on what you want out of it. Might be better to consider a built FWD like a Civic / Corolla / Swift in PRC spec. These will most likely be quicker than a standard Rex, and be ready to do full rallies, whereas building a Rex might be a 10 year project by the time you get it finished. Even a Hyundai Excel is a great starting point, as there is a series where you pit yourself against identical cars, and they can be very competitive. They're cheap to buy, and parts are available at your locak newsagent. you won't have any less fun in the Excel, will be as quick as some of the AWD's, and will learn a bucket load about car control. What it won't have is street cred, so if you can live with that, then the Excel is a perfect choice for a beginner. If you show promise in the Excel, then you can move up to an AWD, and you will be competitive in that as well. Some of the older AWD's come up for $10k or less for fully prepped cars (VR4, early Rex / Liberty, Familia etc). Some of these can be a very good thing, but like any older car you might be chasing a lot of reliability issues. Remember the old saying - you can have cheap, fast or reliable. Pick any two.

Good choice on the gravel stuff. I'll answer what I can. Yes, plenty of rally clubs in each state. Get onto the CAMS website or AMSAG website (the 2 main bodies who organise rallies in Oz) and there will be links to clubs in your area. The BMSC link above will be a great start - it's the most active gravel rally forum in Australia by far. my105 is a good place to look for cars, but many can be way overpriced. Not sure about stat write offs being used, but bear in mind rally cars will need to have some form of rego, and this can be very difficult if there is any question about the car's authenticity. Not impossible, but can be a major payne. Basic safety stuff is the minimum spec, but you can do autocrosses, dirt sprints etc with a stock standard road car as long as it's in reasonably safe condition. Proper rallies will need rollover protection, under body protection and upgraded suspension to cope with the rough roads (stock height springs and good quality dampers are a good start) How fast do you want to go? CAMS L2S for dirt sprints, autocrosses etc. Rally licence for higher events (rallysprints, rallies). Have a search through the CAMS website for details on this, how to get them and how much it costs You can get a rally ready car from $5k upwards, but anything reliable and a bit fast is likely to cost $10k. If you want a reliable, quick AWD rally car, then budget $20-30k to start. To build any of the above you should triple the figures I've quoted. Again, depends how fast you want to go. Personal safety gear will probably cost about a grand to get going, although you can pick up stuff second hand for a fraction of that cost (not recommended - don't skimp out on safety gear) I haven't put a million links in this post because I can't be arsed searching for them for you. I've put enough info there so that you can find it with a bit of searching. If you have specific questions, I'm more than happy to help out. If you're in SE QLD, come along to a dirt sprint and I'm happy to show you around (as will most competitors be) You can do tarmac hillclimbs, track days etc. with a rally car and still have fun. The suspension settings won't be ideal, so you won't get the most performance out of the car but that shouldn't stop you from having a go. I've tracked my gravel rally Civic (stock B16a) and while it's 10 sec a lap alower than the fast guys at Lakeside, I still had an absolute ball. If I lowered it and tweaked the geometry, as well as learnt the track I'm sure there is a good 2-3 sec a lap in the car without having to change any components over. Still won't scare the big boys, but it punches well above its weight for a shopping trolley.

Pfft - diesels have been running without spark plugs for a century. Nothing new here.

No, you're wrong, Harry. Weber is full of awesome End of story Till his next cock up when I turn on him again like a rabid dog