hypergear
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Everything posted by hypergear
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please have a quick look at the actuator before tuning, because the actuator had to be removed from the turbo assembly before it can be installed. In many cases the installer thinks that Ive adjusted the actuator rod too short so they unloads the actuator for a easy hook on to the wastegate arm. The previous SS1PU demo was sent to you with a 14psi actuator, and raised with a boost controller I believe. Does that give you better tunability compare to a starting point of 20psi? Kasko please check my youtube video under: taosg2001 for preloading instructions and just check to make sure the gate is tightly shut by the actuator with about 3mms of preload. That will get even better response as the gate don't open as early. This should be the correct boost curve that matched mine: I've tested 6 different combinations to make this turbo work that took over 5 month of period if you have a look at the results from failed earlier models. I don't test turbos on customers unless they've been told it is a prototype. I think my results would stand for the best as you can get out of it with best supporting mods, fresh engine and a tuner that is very familiar with the my whole setup. -
The other option that I used to hold boost is to basically preload the actuator harder. The overall behaivor would be more boost through out whole rev range and makes better response due to analog behavior of the valve. also did you unload the actuator to gain less boost? it appears abit laggier when what it should be on a 15km/sec ramp as Trent uses same ramp rate. The actuator must be preloaded all times or the disc would be free spinnning all times under pressure, over time it will snap. I think the difference between the SS1PU making 180rwkws by 4000RPMS vs a G3 that so makes 180rwkws by 4000 and maxing 300rwkws+ is in the dynamic of power delivery. wither the SS1PU would comes straight alive when acceleration is stepped in and G3 would felt a linear of power build up. That doesn't show on the dyno graph. Also DVS: I've noticed this from a customer's tuner, because he is not comfortable tunning stock engine at 20psi with that actuator, to avoid engine issues he deliberitly removing timing from the mid range to make the car safe. Which resulted in a 14psi actuator gains better mid range more overall response and more power with less boost. Do you do similar sort of thing as well to engines you don't know? The mod I'm going to test out this weekend is also based on a SS1PU how ever with a clip on arm extension. In physics greater distance gain more control same as undo a tight bolt with a longer spanner turns out easier. if that works then we might be able to hold boost flat.
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Need ebc to hold boost up top. I'm testing a little mod this weekend and hopefully that changes the boost behavior up to.
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Refer to back to back test in page 213. The mainlane dyno read 5kws less then the current dyno I'm using and that was before engine rebuild at 300rwkws. The dyno is fair. What Turbo do you have to send in? Quite happy to do a test relating to it.
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The key to make more top end is making sure the boost control setup can hold boost at 7000rpms, people whoms are slightly down in power normally found them selves few psi down in boost at that point. There's a combination of method that I use including adjustment of preload on the actuator, wastegate controller and EBC. Pretty simple, normally just few mints while car's on the dyno. How ever i can not pre-set as final boost level varies between cars. Good quality supporting mods do make a difference specially at high boost levels. I'm not concerned as those can be easily purchased. How ever I am concert with tunner's ability and skills per discussion in page 182, without precise tune, the whole setup can not perform at its best, it is also frastrating as all the expasive research work that has been put in to the turbocharger turn meaningless
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The engine side is a pain. You can put a very thin layer of silicon glue around the washers that are going in there. which works well. Also the AFR in previous tune is all over the places, its leaning straight up after 6200RPMs. is it pinning up top? DVS should be able to touched it up or I guess he would erase it for a completely new tune.
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Those reading is based on a half opened waste gate, the tuner must've unloaded too much tesion from the actuator extender, causing it stick open. If would be a very different end result if the actuator was adjusted correctly. Is the ss2 installed and running? Had a test drive on it yet?
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Have a look at this video: Notice that I gained 11KWs by chucking 2 people in the boot. I would also jump in if I'm not the camera man. lol. Dyno it again with the boot sit and see what happens. . The same car with the same turbo was later on returned at Status which made 303rwkws So the real difference between the Roller and Status hub dyno is within 5 kws on a 300rwkws setup. That was also with a fully stock engine.
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This is the wastegate assembly that we've been making and using. Part A B C is all lathe machined, D is cast then Lathe matched. The bore that comes out straight out of the lathe is straight. When Trozzle returned his turbo Part A was bent towards the turbine housing and shaft of part D is also bent. I've been told it was received that way. Obviously I have no reasons bending it. The only explanation would be a impact caused damaged, so likely it was dropped during handling having the leveler landed first. The sleeve bore C and B's clearance between D is 15 thus, if shaft D bends the whole assembly sized. This is solid stainless steel you can not wiggle it free. The only way, the "bit stickiness" wiggled free would be the residue or dirt that went around been part A B and C, which do happen on a car. Trozzle's wastegate assembly was removed and drilled out on a large milling machine then reassemble with a new assembly. Once it’s physically sized, there is no way it can be freed up by fingers. How ever for people whom installed the turbo it comes clear that the actuator assembly with the bracket had to be removed allow manifold studs to be reached. My suspicion lays on the installation process of when the actuator is Re-attached. Can be simply determind when every thing comes alive once new actuator is replaced while the old actuator also operates perfectly when tested by a compressor. I personally test all waste gate assemblies and the actuator on a compressor prior shipping, so far have not seen a faulty actuator.
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Well if its doing 260rwkws on 17psi then try a run on 20psi with the EBC, should hit around the 280rwkws mark.
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use the factory oil drain adaptor on the 2nd photo as the drain port has been modified to suit stock drain flange. Also do check Ignition timing at crank matches to what ever the ecu the is reading, it can be adjusted through the CAS controller. Which was Landcribble's problem (20 degrees retard) that some how that caused uncontrollable boost creep, pin as well as strange power curve.
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Well if you are trying to bend the lines after fitting on the turbo then it won't work. Check the DIY page with video footages of how it was done. It took us about 12mints. http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/261613-hypergear-hiflow-service-continued/page__st__1780__p__5876311#entry5876311
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Check the wasetgate it is operation by: 1. Use compressor, Shoot air into the actuator while still on the turbocharger assembly, check the movement from the wastegate gate. 2. If wastegate james, remove the actautor, shoot air into the actuator and see if the rod moves back and forward. 3. if the actuator operates check and make sure its not fouling on any parts of the bracket or parts. If the actuator does not operate under pressure then it would be a faulty actuator which will go through warranty. Which I have not seen one failing so far. And check to make sure the exhaust studs is not too long or it can possibly foul on the wastegate and catches it on the thread that makes it jam.
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That car was with the Nistune with Z32 ECU. Manifold is good as in haven't cracked yet and there is a slight improvement in up top torque. I will install the G3 back in and see if there are any advantages in overall performance before making quantity and offer to sell. This housing make lot more down low torque, pretty good to drive as daily.
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I've mainly had WA customers experiencing problems with tuning, which is also the first time it cames to my awareness as an issue. I've never thought the "tune" would make that much difference as most tuners I've used in Melbourne are good and getting close results. Also make sure the car is running 100% before taking to the tuners, most of them would just chuck it on the dyno without knowing if there is an issue. becuase of that, figures could be way off the norm and possibly cause damanges to the engine.
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Should make a different assume the split is from the manifold to the wheel tip of the turbo. It also makes the a/r slightly smaller then what it is depending on the thickness of the divider.
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Rb25 Turbo Upgrade, All Dyno Results
hypergear replied to Nacho Vidal's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
93 model R33 GTST Forgied CP pistons, valve springs and stock every thing else. 550cc injectors 600x300x75mm Front mounted cooler Xforce 3inch turbo back exhaust Profect B electric boost controller ATR43G3 Alternative turbine housing prototype. 4inch intake pipe Nistune Z32 AFM in cooler piping Pump 98 fuel. Car maxed 291rwkws on 19.75psi (Pink line corrospond to reading above, The blue line was from a different turbo) Video: -
Great, looks like you ended up making the 280rwkws. FNT turbine update: I've been working on a newer ATR43G3's rear housing for few weeks now and this new FNT turbine housing that suited better for the street: Dyno tested today at Statu's brand new dyno room. (Pink line corrospond to reading above, The blue line was from a different turbo) Compare to the older housing I've lost about 10KWs based on the same boost level, but much better response. How ever 20psi is about the max efficiency from this turbine housing, while the older .82 FNT housing was still making power at 24psi. I've also fixed up my EBC (big thanks to Trent): Greedy Profect B. That worked like magic (with the 20psi actuator). Very steady boost control, worked better then the manual controller I've had. I will be removing this turbo and evaluate some thing else. This turbine housing will be available for swap to any one that currently own a .82 version of the G3 for further evaluation and results. PM me if interested.
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The problem with the JJR return flow and short vertical run down cores, is not the ability to flow, its the ability to loose heat. They pull one good run then heat soaks every run after, so your car would pin, pin, and more pinning after each run. Don't remove timing, give it 20 mints cooling period between runs and its knock free. I've already tried that and mentioned it in earlier pages. Obviously when running E85 with a cooler like that, the fuel is not as sensitive to heat, so as long as it can flow it will make power. I believe Jeff wrote a full page long about testing of a blitz return flow cooler that caused boost drop issues, if you haven't seen it please refer to index page for the thread. In conclusion don't use return flow coolers or crappy cores for 300rwkws application. Spend some cash and get a decent plazaman cooler (abe's car G3 making 290rwkws pump and 358rwkws E85) or a PWR cooler (test car). The importance is in the quality of labor work, and materials its made from. Split dump will do no good. It causes boost creep and flow restrictions specially used on the G3. There has been few pages of discussions to read at, they can be located through the index page. Plus there is no magic in the engine. Every single part in its build is listed in previous pages.
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Its pretty hard to sort as every car is pretty unique in its own way of modification. The turbocharger it self is exactly the same as they all milled through the same machine to the same specifications on the same programe. Reason for diversity in power level that ranges from 320rwkws to 201rwkws can only depend other supporting mods, engine condition and the tune. I found most consumers whom purchases Bolton turbos are likely to purchase bolton street legal or cop friendly parts, then modify their cars that way, such setup will not produce power. Plus some tuners not been able to tune for its best, per back to back result comparison from tunning shown in previous pages. The G3 in similar setup as test car on factory engine produces around 280~300rwkws at 19~20psi as norm and there are plenty of people getting that. For people whom resulted below average, compare your car's mods based on: Intake <== Same diameter as inlet of turbo Exhaust <== Bell mouth minimum3 inch turbo back straight through Intercooler <== No return flows (specially CN return flows), Use quality 600x300x75mm core. Engine <== Even compression within OEM Specifications, Correct initial timing. Tune To the test car and this thread has plenty of information on caused affects from various parts. Obviously people don't post unless they need assistance. The problem solving information are very helpful for other modifiers. Need high pressure actuator to hold boost straight. This is result of swaping for a soft 14psi actuator, the effects were has been told before the downgrade.
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They run pretty large .82 rear housing. That actuator has been tested already, I delt it has some thing to do with the actuator or the wastegate assembly as there would be couple of hundred people here with the same issue. Try a different boost source and see if that makes any differences as I found it strange as the sping load made no difference in your car.
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That combination chocks the engine on both intake and exhaust. Tried it doesn't work. Dynosheet at: Must run GT30 equivalent high flows on RB25dets.
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Thats the first ever case on a G3 I've ever seen. Those turbine housings runs a 32mm internal gate port with a 36mm wastegate disc. Thats what we port the internal gate to on the Garrett turbine housings to when we rebuild or high flow their turbos. (mainly xr6 3582). That gate can not be ported any larger as thats all the diameter there is before breaking into the walls. That can not be the cause. Check the wasetgate assembly to see if its operational by shooting pressure into it from the compressor. Of it is then check vacuum source. or see if the actuator it self is operating of so make sure the rod is not fouling on the bracket.
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There has been bit development in that high flow as I had a customer whom own a work shop near by was happy to trail all of the combinations and the best felt on road is some thing in between a 3071 and 2871 with custom trimmed up turbine wheel with FNT turbine modification. It is touch smaller then the usual profile that I normally run in the skyline turbos which some of you noticed the HP rating isn't as high. I've also modified the bearing housing so they can work with stock oil supply, braided oil line is no longer required. Test car was a auto M35 with cooler and exhaust only and that high flowed turbo was excellent to drive with on road. I believe the best option is running the SS1PU on the VQ25. I'm consider making a custom mould for when more M35s comes into the country.
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Get cooler and drive with no airbox lid. lol
