Full-Race Geoff

The S300 FMW shares the identical turbine housing to the s300sx 83-75, 84-75 and 88-75, so yes you can share the turbine housings. the compressor housings you can not swap however. if you decided to get one, i would suggest to get it with a different housing A/R and different blade shape than the turbo you currently have. the reason is that BW balances the non-BB turbo components individually, this allows you to mix and match between turbine wheels and housings on your turbo, without the need for a rebalance. these S300 turbos are extremely easy to disassemble and swap a turbine wheel on, just 2 wrenches on a left-hand-thread is all it takes

Both the 83-75 and the FMW are excellent bang-for-the-buck, great power and incredibly reliable. The FMW turbo is basically the "new for 2012" version of the S300SX 83-75. it uses an EFR 8374 compressor wheel combined with 2 different blade shape turbine wheels depending on what the application is. here is a photo of the comp wheel: our customers who cant wait for the EFR 8374 are generally using this turbo

i dont know any turbo companies that can pour Ti, inconel or stainless steel - that is like asking if full-race makes our own header materials from ore

Im not the type of person to get into forum arguments but it seems you guys are villifying 'the keeper' and truthfully he was John's biggest stateside supporter.. so Ill briefly share my point of view of the events that transpired last July/Aug: the (4) turbos that failed for john, were successive serial #s. we initially saw the first 2 turbos from this batch fail but we thought it was a freak occurence and had not seen it previously. none of the previous EFR turbos we've used had failed in this manner. John installed/killed the turbos and sent them back which was when bw learned that this batch of turbos had turbine wheels which the supplier did not follow strict mfg requirements. had we known about this prior to john the turbos from that batch and serial #s would not have shipped to him. Unfortunately we did not know, so the turbine wheels failed immediatley and now every EFR turbo that shipped since then has been verified by BW to use correct turbine wheel Full-Race's twin turbo RB manifold was designed in R33/R34 engine bay. we did not know R32 fitment because we never had an R32 GTR to test on in the USA. In fact we've just recently imported an R32GTR clip to solve this fitment and make the install much easier for anyone who does this in the future. john - I thought it was made clear to you and richard that a replacement manifold OR credit for your manifold would be issued to richard (he is the one that paid for the kit iirc) to help cover your time. Ive been the head of Full-Race for 10 years, we have never had this situation arise or done this before. Richard said he needed a single twinscroll turbo manifold and suggested we would apply your credit to that. fyi This twin turbo kit is not compatible with a dual stage 32GTR p/s pump obviously, any of the Rb single stage pumps would work- RB25 or 26. that is what I recall also, build a second set for him, or issue a credit to richard... of course discussing/solving this through a public discussion forum is probably not the best course of determining that correct you have more experience running the twin 6258s on an RB than anyone else on the planet, so you know first-hand how well the combination works. I also agree that if John had just installed his 6258s this time around he would have been pleased. Instead he tried the larger 7163 turbos out, which in hindsight are clearly too big for his application and stock displacement 2.6L this kit has not been offered for sale publically, it will in 2012. The R32 GTR fitment is much tighter than R33 or R34, so thats why we brought this car in - to get the fitments perfect. at first i did not believe it was possible to acheive their claimed dyno and quarter mile performance on the little 6758. ive had a lot of conversations with oem Auto mfg engineers and direct injection specialists lately who tell me otherwise. gasoline direct injection really changes what is possible

yes sir check your email

LOL we dont agree on everything - what he wrote above is fact

ryan, i have spoken with this owner/driver many times over the last few days.. he has gone through (3) longblocks in 5 months. of course he had no filter in the oil feed line, so it seems possible the turbo might have received oil with pieces of oilpump/thrust bearing/piston fragments in it. FWIW on his brand new fresh motor he only got (1) lap in before the engine grenaded, and it was still fast enough to get him 4th fastest overall. The turbo is still good per his reports, we will get this turbo to BW for analysis - its possible the bent shaft assumption is incorrect and we will find metallic pieces inside of his bearing housing.. completely agree.

100% incorrect - in fact all of the indy cars next year will need to run (2) EFR 6758 T25 turbo or (1) EFR 9180 Twinscroll T4 turbo. BorgWarner's EFR turbos are the real deal, its just had a way too small supply and a very high demand correct

lithium, one benefit of the stainless steel housing is that it's a real pleasure to weld to.. if you wanted to run a t25 efr on a t3 manifold, properly weld a t3 flange on and port to suit

forged billet compressor wheel is brand new to the s300sx, this is as close as we will get to the journal bearing EFR concept you are asking about. Ported shroud is a must have for these turbos, there is zero downside to this it only broadens your surge margin FWIW the turbo that scott kuhner used on the tilton interiors car was the S300SX 83-75 which uses a cast compressor wheel and flat tip turbine wheel. Solid performer and comparable to a twinscroll gt3582R but with a better turbine wheel/housing and better price (non BB of course). Both of these dynos were done on a low reading dyno in 3rd gear, (not good for impressing people online). We will do some higher boost and 4th gear pulls once the weather is tolerable, it is wayyy too hot in the arizona desert right now. the second dyno chart you posted of the 8374 had a massive boost leak at the throttle body seals, so it was not a solid test. waiting on him to fix that and then redyno

Scott Kuhner / Tilton interiors got 4th place, runner up to garage revolution RX-7 with an S300SX 8375 1.00 a/r. Probably the least expensive turbo in the field On another note, we're now working on getting BW to release an S300SX with billet compressor wheel that is not EFR but still very potent

lithium - the early results mark berry and team have shared are impressive. WTAC is just 7 days away now, going to be some interesting developments. btw motoIQ put up a new article today RE the sierra sierra evo who stepped up from the efr 8374 to 9180 for the event edit link here for article: http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/2045/pageid/3382/sierra-sierra-evo-pre-wtac-2011-update.aspx

promising start - we think once you get more time with this turbokit the last thing youll worry about is pulling it off for another ^^^^^ +1 agreed - after we finished the twin turbo EFR6258 skyline in the US i started to reconsider my personal cars' turbo setup. My car is LHD so its much more difficult to fit the twins, however I consider the boost response and linearity of the twin 6258 powerband as phenomenal, so I am particularly eager to hear your impressions compared to all the twins youve run over the years. we have a steady supply of the smaller EFR's from borg warner so if i went twins i could potentially put my car back together quickly... thanks for the vote of confidence, that means a lot coming from a seasoned pro such as yourself. Everyone on our team at Full-Race works *hard* to put out a top-shelf product .. anybody that claims to top us in quality or design better have their act together because we do and its not easy! totally agree with you - 280 x 10.5 or 280 x 11.5 is a great cam. I personally prefer to have solid boost response by ~3500-3700rpm so for my driving style and 2.6L displacement the 8374 is preferred. For anyone with an Rb30 and an aggressive trans like you guys have the 9180 is clearly the monster. we recently tested a 1.9L honda on the BW S400SX 67mm, which as you mention uses a similar design compressor wheel to the EFR 9180 but with the 83mm inconel turbine wheel for max exhaust flow and power, designed primarily as a drag racing 67mm not so much focused on spoolup/response. on a 1.9L honda engine, 31psi boost and E85 race fuel we saw 950hp on a dynapack hubdyno. does not spool nearly as well as the efr of course

Great to hear the turbocharger arrived safely, thanks for keeping us posted on your progress. I am very fond of the 6258 - it's my favorite T25 flanged B1 EFR turbo based on the turbine:compressor match ratios and overall turbocharger efficiency. The R34 GTR we run (2) of them on is a lot of fun to drive and has been very solid as a Daily-Driver Full-Race never said ball bearing is a myth; what we have stated is: **on the dyno and drag strip ball bearings do not matter** Combining top-notch blade aero efficiency levels with incredible durability of the Airwerks turbos allowed us to reach great performance levels from these turbos (case in point S200SX 1.22 a/r spools earlier and outperforms the twinscroll 30R at all points in a recent evo test) Quite honestly, the ball bearing makes zero difference once the turbo is already up on boost. However - on the street, road course, auto-x gymkhana, drift, etc the ball bearings' improved transient response is absolutely there. In fact on OE applications we are seeing a change to ball bearing turbos becuase it can offer a 3-4% fuel economy improvement. In a time attack application, the difference of BB vs non-BB is considerable It took a LOT to come up with a bearing design which meets the borgwarner engineering team's requirements. The EFR bearing uses a metal bearing cage plated with silver to prevent galling. Check out this photo from MotoIQ.com comparing the EFR bearing cartridge to a Garrett GT bearing cartridge (which uses a plastic bearing cage)

i run the trust, just because the pickup and windage tray they use is simple and works well. You must be able to tig weld obviously, so if you can TIG you can probably fabricate a sump - but the pickup on the trust is the deal maker for me

Hi guys, great to see the discussion. Truth be told, that dyno is known as the lowest reading in Arizona. You may notice all our previous tests used dynapacks as our benchmark dyno since it is on-par with most other dynos that advertisements and forums reference. I planned to use the dynapacks but we had an opportunity to get these cars on this mustang dyno at a last minute's notice and we took it. The dyno pulls were all done in 3rd gear and we did not use a slow ramp-rate to increase load. it was a worst-case scenario dynoplot for "internet hype" but gives me the data I needed to see. The fuel used was arizona/california 91 octane which is very very poor fuel, it's actually 87 octane that is buffered with MTBE and ethanol to increase the knock resistance. I have a lot of experience with different RB turbos on my personal car and our customers cars, and now that ive had some time in each car, my input is as follows: R34 w/ twinturbo EFR 6258 -- This car is an absolute blast to drive. I am a sworn single-turbo guy, but this combination is making me think twice about what turbo setup to use for my new car. Look at the in car video of 4th gear, you can see the stock R34 MFD has the boost gauge flashing red, hitting 1.2bar before 4000rpm. The owner of this car is an experienced on-track driver and long time skyline owner. He came from a pair of HKS 2530 twins to this EFR 6258 setup, on the same engine build. He comments that the 2530's did spool up a *tiny* bit earlier, but compared to the performance of the EFR's he doesn't miss anything about the 2530s. We are converting the car to run on E85 and will turn the boost up shortly. of course we will post those dynocharts also. This car is extremely driveable with great torque and comes back up on boost unusally fast between gear changes R34 w/ single EFR 8374 -- I drove this car with the medium boost internal WG actuator and it felt good, but not great. We installed the high boost actuator (stiffer spring) and the turbo completely woke up. However its off again and i suspect a boost leak. Ive been absolutely swamped with some other jobs and had no time to focus on that car. I believe this is a bit large turbo for a stock head with this small of a camshaft, but this car also makes 1.2 bar before 4000rpm so it's still very driveable. I am eager to get this car sorted with some better flowing top end, and better fuel so we can turn the boost up. Will be sure to post results of this

These are great questions to ask. my answers- 1) you are correct there are (7) EFR turbos - and (6) EFR compressor wheels. Our website lists by compressor wheel, per the EFR matrix. For the 62mm compressor, you can use the 58mm turbine OR the 55mm turbine. I strongly encourage the 58mm 2) I cannot quantify "better boost climb" without back to back on-engine results -- but i can say this: the EFR turbochargers are unrivaled for their turbine wheel and bearing design. When EFR turbos were being developed, other mfg's performance turbos were purchased, tested and benchmarked for comparison... BW made sure the EFR series would outperform the competitors. 3) Due to the high-flow wastegate design, these turbos are physically long and a bit difficult to fit in a bottom mount configuration, especially if you plan to keep A/C. I strongly encourage you to consider top-mount in an RB26! 4) The BP ratio should be intake pressure higher than exh pressure, until approx 5500rpm. from that point to redline, it should be 1:1 5) The 6258 .64 is bar-none my favorite turbo from any mfg for twin turbo setups edit: if anyone wants to build a twin setup, we have (6) of the 6258's left, and once they sell will not have anymore for a bit longer

for my track car (RB26) ive chosen the EFR 8374 .92 a/r - with 42mm dual internal wastegate. I can make PLENTY of power with this and I want the simplicity + light weight of the internal gate. there are many things i need to work on improving - with the chassis, suspension, brakes, etc. For now, i want less things on the car to think about (turbo system included) and focus on chassis settings and driving; thats what will make us go faster on the track. maybe if I got the car truly dialed running full-tilt and high boost with a proper close ratio gearbox then i might consider the 1.05 a/r with external gates, I do understand your concerns about backpressure. I also much prefer the larger turbine housings when that is an option - particularly with divided manifolds and turbine housings. When i said ONLY the "sweet spot" turbine housings are sold - this means that the intake pressure : backpressure ratio should be under or about 1:1. We have seen in depth testing of this at borgwarner and (2) major OE's which verified this. Also - do not get caught up in the "#" of the a/r. It is measured differently by everyone from each turbo mfg, and there is no such number you can say you want to use that will be ideal. Trust me when i say the .92 is optimal for low-mid-high- boost. for high+ boost the 1.05 will not be beat, these housings are designed for these wheels, and these wheels for the housings. Lastly - here is the "paradox" of turbine housing design: a smaller a/r will have less efficiency at low flow and higher efficiency at high flow. Conversely, a larger a/r will have more efficiency at low flow and less efficiency at high flow. This is counter-intuitive to what you might think, but it is why you can not get unlimited airflows from a given wheel size. happy new year!!

i do not know the final answers on which will be the next housings for release, but the current housings are the "sweet spot" for the given turbine and compressor matches. If you need more flow, go up in turbo size. BTW - The B1 turbos will not be getting the .92 a/r, even tho it was originally listed as a possibility (that will be updated shortly on our website). In my opinion --> using the .92 twinscroll housing in a divided configuration without mixing between cyl pairs - will work GREAT. this setup with an EFR 7064 is to me the top-shelf setup for an RB25 or SR20 with fastest response possible for a <500hp application. the 7670 for RB26/25s or built SR20s that want a bit more power. Do not be scared by the T4 footprint, or the A/R sizing. this isnt a traditional turbo!!

the white R34 engine is back at the machine shop (shoddy piston:wall clearances) and the blue R34 is street tuned, have not put it on the dyno yet. Holidays have been keeping us busy but will be back on this asap

BUMP -- this afternoon we received the first shipment of EFR turbos (T25 and undivided T3 turbine housings only in this shipment). Anyone looking to build a Twin-T25 EFR setup OR a singlescroll T3 EFR, these are in stock for a short time

OK sir - i will check the email and get back to you! Weve been working like mad to redesign many of our 4cyl manifolds for the EFR internal wastegate fitments. Lots of fixtures and tooling have been in heavy surgery for the past 2 weeks. The RB engines will fortunately not require any changes. lith - no worries mate! if you guys have any specific questions or need some closeup photos, post what yuou would like to see and ill do my best to get them online. I hope to get the R34s on the dyno soon, Ive got too much going on in the fab shop to break free right now

it is getting tuned next week, along with the white twin turbo r34 gtr, ill be sure to post up results as soon as they are done

are you serious? I dont think you and I are looking at the same dyno charts... do the math of Sierra's EFR vs the precision you posted. Literally write the RPM points down with hp & tq. Until you do this, you havent made a direct comparison. This car is a 2.2L engine making 700lb-ft around 5000rpm.. that is unheard of. The twinscroll EFR is murdering the precision everywhere in the powerband that matters - and thats not taking into account the dynojet vs mustang dyno argument. the EFR gains i see from that chart are: EFR @ 3500rpm +85wtq / +65whp EFR @ 4000rpm +100wtq / +110whp EFR @ 5000rpm +400wtq / +400whp EFR @ 6000rpm +100wtq / +100whp EFR @ 7000rpm +60wtq / -20whp EFR @ 8000rpm -30wtq / -40whp Think about where you spend most of the time using the engine, and what RPM points it occupies.. and that is called powerband optimization. The biggest benefit of the EFR is the lightweight turbine wheel - and that is NOT shown on any dyno. There is no way to measure that, except judging by the grin on the driver's face. VS ^^+1 the mustang dynos read MUCH less than dynojets or dynapacks, and there is no way in hell 0.2L displacement will create those gains. dont fret and get stuck on the numbers... this is a 79lb/min compressor wheel, it can get very close to that 850hp level you want to reach. However the rotating assembly is MUCH lighter weight and has a much higher grade ball bearing than anything on the market. response will be unrivaled.