jarrod83

i sure hope my turbos okay :S some bits of ceramic insulator made its way into the cat

Thanks for the clear up GTRNUR, i much appreciate it, and it does make alot of sense now exactly what happened, anyone got any ideas the best way to approach them with this situation.. at this point, i still dont think they are accepting they are responsible or even partly responsible.. but i havent been in much contact with them, i was thinking maybe about asking them to meet me halfway and cover half the expense of the rebuild. Ill give it a few weeks for me to cool down though before i try and contact them again. Jarrod

They are cp pistons, getting the ceramic shop to sand them down and recoat them at 30$ a piston, they are also going to touch up the ceramics of the head.. ill see if i can find any suitable blocks, they are very rare these days.

took the block to the machine shop for now, hes said the pistons are more than likely alrite, will just need a clean up, but 2 of the bores are f*kd and will need sleeving.. is it worth fixing the block or just start again? He couldnt believe that 5 out of 6 of them broke tho, he had heard of ppl giving them a light going over with a oxy but never to the point where they were glowing red.. and suggested that it may of been deliberately done Jarrod

damn, those pistons are too nice to be trapped inside an engine

wouldnt that waiver to damages to ur car whilst tuning that alot of places get you to sign when they are tuning your car cover them anyway in this instance? =/ Jarrod

looking back on the facts on how many ppl say its a bad idea to heat them up that way i cant see either why he said that heating them up that way was fine, i still dont like my chances of getting them to pay for any of the damage. Ill explain the story out in full... Two days before my tune i did all the basic things like check coolant level, bought some more motul 8100, swapped filter, while i was down at auto one i was talking to a friend that i know has a mid 400hp drift skyline and asked what plugs he used and asked him to order me a set. The next day ive gone in to pick them up, payed for them and walked out to the car, in which i noticed they were 5's, i walked back in the store querying the heat range as i know its the same heat range as the standard plug and way too hot for my application and that i usually use 7s. i was told a story that the NGK's work in reverse to bosch plugs and that a 5 was infact a colder plug. Left it at that installed them and drove the car to the tuner in the early hours the next morning.. went over all the basics and as i was leaving i rememberd about the spark plugs that i was a bit concerned about. So i said to him that i was recommended some v notch ngk5's and that i was concerned about the heat range as i usually run 7s. He confirmed my worry and said that they run 8s in there car.. im not a 100% sure on this part but im pretty sure he checked if he had any 7s for me but didnt, i then said that i had some 7s at home that had fouled up on me and that i would just soak them in fuel quickly, clean them up and drop them in.. in which he said to just bring them down and he would wave the oxy over them free of charge ( since i was installing them ) and that it burns the oil right off them and that it brings them up like new and that theyve done it before.. so i agreed and went home to get the plugs and some tools. Got back there walked in and gave him the plugs, he heated them up with a pair of pliers and the oxy, i waited around for 5 mins waiting for the plugs to cool down before i realised that i could go get the car ready fro the plugs to go in. So i pulled out the old plugs and went back inside, in which i askd him if they had cooled down enough yet to handle, he briefly picked one up and was like yeh they are handliable, i started picking them up and by the time i got to the third one i realised that they were still fairly hot. This is when the other guy that im pretty sure doesnt work there as he owns the car they were working on, comes over with a rag and some carbie cleaner and gives them a spray to cool them down, i then went and installed them on the car. Looking back now it seems retarded and i cant believe i allowed them to do it, at the time i assumed that they had been around drag cars alot longer than me and knew what they were doing, especially when he said he had done it before. DVS32R- nah i didnt find any ceramic bits in the oil, but it had crossed my mind that it may of caused the oil pump failure GTRNUR- i couldnt agree more, thats pretty much exactly what happened, as the car made a horrible noise as soon as it was turned on ill get some more photos, the ones i took were facing the intake side.. the exhaust side is shocking :S Jarrod

Dont think it makes much difference but i just want to clear up that it wasnt the metal that cracked but the white ceramic insulator nose surrounding the electrode, on the NGK site it does say if the spark plugs get too hot, that the white ceramics do break, i might send them an email on their oponion on the matter. Id say they cracked and as soon as the engine fired up they fell off with the pressure of combustion. When i first started the engine after putting the plugs back in it was a bit more noiser than usual for the first 20secs, which i found unusual and mentioned to him.. I am a bit pessimistic on a light sand fixing the problem, i'll see what my engine builder has to say tomorrow :S most of the marks are very light.. but there are a few that are pretty deep. Jarrod

The guy that sprayed them with the carbie cleaner.. im not even sure if he is employed there, as they were working on a drag car together :S although the tuner was there overwatching.. oh and the spark plugs had cooled down a good 20 mins before they were sprayed.. but they were still a little hot to handle.. Jarrod

Well he first said that the oxy couldnt caused the earth straps to break, i replied asking what about when they sprayed on carbie cleaner to cool them down along with a bunch of pictures of the spark plugs, pistons and head damage.. he replied that he didnt really see any problems with the damage and that it could mostly be cleaned up with some emery cloth, ill probably try and take the block and head my machine shop tomorrow to get them to inspect the damage, going to be one long sleepless night :S Yeh he is a reputable workshop and tuner, been impressed with his tunes in the past. Its going to be hard to put the blame solely on his shoulders as i was the one that installed them at his workshop, i was going to just soak them in some petrol for abit as they had fouled up by me after a few cold starts whilst i was having problems with the new ecu, but he said he could just quickly hit them up with the oxy and burn the crap off them. I would of just got new spark plugs but the ones i order always take half a day to a day and the car had been booked in for the dyno that morning. The reason why the BCPR7ES's went back in was because i was concerned with the brand new BKR5E11's breaking after he suggested that the heat range was no good, :S its a very sad irony =( I should of just grabbed some BCPR6ES's they always have them in stock =/ Id there anything else besides the oxy or the tune that could possibly caused 5 spark plugs to break the way they have??? Jarrod

will the pistons probably be reuseable with some light sanding to remove the sharp edges aslong as the bores are recoverable?

he heated them up a fair bit

Because 5 out of 6 spark plugs broke :S see attatched photo

Rob82:Yeh it wasnt a very bright idea, he still claims it wouldnt of caused the spark plugs to break apart like they have, with the luck im having i wouldnt be surpised if a valve is bent, they dont appear to be so far tho The Mafia: Unfortunately they are marks on the bore, i was optimistic about the block being salvageable and maybe the pistons as most the scratches you cant even feel, but ive just found one really deep one on one of the bores :S it was more the heat range of the spark plug rather than the v notch design he was disagreeing about, and yeh it was a rb30 , since its unlikely to get much worse i might just slap it back together with a rb30e oil pump and do some burnouts.. its not like much more can break =/

BCPR6ES

The other week when i sent my car to get tuned on the dyno, (when the oil pump died), the tuner didnt agree with the new v notch spark plugs i was trying out that one of my friends that drifts uses (BKR5E11's gapped down to 0.8), since i had my old plugs with me that had done 4000 kms (BCPR7ES) the tuner said he could just give them a quick clean up with a oxy and theyd be good as new.. i had asked if it was safe and he assured me that he had done it many times.. so i pulled out my new BKR5E11's and replaced them with the BCPR7ES at his workshop.. after which the car died on the dyno and the oil pump went. Im guessing due to the circumstances where i installed the spark plugs at his workshop that albeit bad advice on his behalf.. he is no way liable for the damages to the engine?? I took photos of the worse piston and the head.. is this sort of damage repairable? expensive? or am i pretty much looking at scrapping the engine and starting again?

Tomei poncam 256 duration 8.5mm lift HKS inlet 256 duration 8.8mm lift exhaust 264 duration 9mm lift Been researching a good drop in cam for my rb25det that has a 3litre bottom end with a gt3582R, i know most people recommend the tomei poncams as the best drop in cam, which from what i gather means they are the easiest to just drop in line up and drive away with no dialling in required.. but from the specifications it appears that the HKS camshaft would be a bit better match up for what im after, with it having more lift and a bit more duration on the exhaust than the intake. How does the hks cam compare to the poncams in terms of added performance? and ease of installation? Mid range torque? do they need much adjustment/dialling in from the factory positions? Adjusting the exhaust cam is easy enough on the dyno with some adjsutable cam gears.. but the intake cam looks to be a bit harder to adjust, even with the vct adjsutable cam gear.. it looks like the cam gear would have to be removed to be adjusted? Is there a way to set up the inlet cam gear so it can be adjusted without removing it? Is it really worth the added hassle of setting up the hks camshafts?? Would running a tomei poncam for the inlet with the larger duration hks exhaust cam gear be a better match up?? Feel free to add any personal experiences with either of the cams, differences experienced in the mid range in terms of response and power etc Cheers for any input Jarrod

nice work, did u solder the afm or swap it out for a new one?

Heres the tomei fuel pump for a r33 gtst on nengun. http://www.nengun.com/tomei/fuel-pump-niss...yline-r33-gts-t I bought one after i ditched my walbro, when i thought it may of been causing problems, they are pretty easy to install but a bit of overkill for what you want. A bosch 040 is easy enough to install and roughly about half the price. What boost gauge are you using?? mine was getting a couple extra psi after i installed a full exhaust and was getting a little extra at night. Im not sure if it went into R&R if it would cause less boost?? Unless it was stupidly rich. Jarrod

If you had liquid nitrogen in your engine and it was still a liquid.. im pretty sure your oil would be frozen, since it has a freezing point somewhere around 0 °C , and the liquid nitrogens boiling boint is something like -195 °C, probably would freeze your fuel aswell I've been looking at water/methanol injection to keep my intake and internal engine temps down

And the pump didnt die on the dyno.. it was getting tuned on the dyno, but sending the knock sensors crazy, not being happy with it he took it off the dyno and was driving it back to the workshop.. and said on the way back it started to flicker around a bit then dropped to 0 as he got into the street, so it possibly got driven a little bit, i might chek the oil from my last couple of changes and the filters to see if they have any bits of metal in them. Jarrod

My first engine was the standard rb25, but it didnt break.. i tried relentlessly at 27 psi but gave up in the end, i built the rb30 myself but had all the machining done at a local machine shop. I'm not out to point fingers and blame anyone that helped me as its more than likely my fault.. which is part of the "fun" when your learning everything yourself from scratch.. i got a few big burnouts out of it.. so im glad i got that much I've pretty much bit the bullet and decided to send the bottom end over east to get inspected to see what they think went wrong and to make sure it doesnt happen again, and to balance it properly this time and adapt some rb26 bearings for it. So dont reuse the standard rb25 oil/water cooler?? i was thinking about buying a oil cooler anyway so i might just add it to the list. Cheers for the input Jarrod

what did you disconnect? the connection that goes to the temperature sensor? your theory has a few holes in it.. as your assuming that with the sensor disconnected, the car would think it was cold? the car may just run the car like its hot without the sensor, plus there is two temperature sensors. Its more than likely an air leak, ive seen this before a few times with friends cars that swear they have no air leaks and have checked it with air compressors etc..and months later we end up finding a air leak in some remote location, like at the carbon canister, once one of the runners had a crack in it at the bottom, couldnt even get your hand down there to see etc.. If its not a air leak theres a small chance it may be a dying fuel pump or an electrical issue, but more often than not its an air leak =/ Jarrod

its more airflow dependant, some ecu's+afms seem to cope upto 14psi and over, while others fall off the edge of the map and hit a boost cut. Do you getting a faint popping sound from the exhaust whilst its missing or does it feell more like your hitting a bit of a wall and falling off boost?? Jarrod

the revv limiter was 7250-7300 with a power fc pro ignition cut type rev limiter.. At the time i had a series 2 r33 oil pump and standard rb25 harmonic balancer, i had a bit of troubles with the balancer with the keyway being a little flogged out. Planning to get a new crank and balance it somewhere else, a Ross drift harmonic balancer and a nitto oil pump, going the pull the engine apart and get the pistons and rods balanced to a higher degree as well, should make it a lot stronger. Also planning to get some drop in cams and springs this time while its apart.. anyone got any preference between tomei poncams 256s and the 256/264 HKS setup with adjustable cam gears. Jarrod