m3gtr

LOl, to anyone who thought the old 427 was a uselful tool in this argument. The bloody thing was a V8 supercar dressed in wolves clothing. No wonder it didnt get the green light... Holden OLD SCHOOL technology at its most unrefined... Not saying it was a bad car but THIS is NOT a ROAD CAR>.. Yes. Tough as f**king nails. That isnt enough in the real world.

Roy, the standard 3 series "wheelbase" is already a corker streets ahead of any standard holden and thats before GmBH gets a hold of it. This from a manufacturer in the ultimate know. The HSV on the other hand is based on the VE wheelbase. If you'd like, lets compare the two standard wheelbases. You and I both know which will come up trumps without even going to a comparo. By the way, the RS4, 6 and 8 are beasts. Wolves in sheep's clothing, iron fists in velvet gloves...you know what i mean.

Youve rasied some excellent points and ive taken no offense. All well and good. From a "business" perspective it makes a heck of a lot of sense. But why anyone would spend 170k on a commodore, from a buyers standpoint has not only me but many puzzled. Sure, Holden is in the business to sell cars and this one will be a sellout but for many its neither practical nor reasonable. Hence the discussion. Im not knocking holden - it may seem like it but im not. Its just that never in any of my years have i ever considered buying a Commodore and i dont feel like im missing out on anything. I much prefer Euros and Japanese cars for the obvious reasons as has already been stated. I couldnt care less if 3 people on my street buy M3's - that tells me we can all appreciate a good car with top class engineering that COMMANDS the price it rightfully deserves BECAUSE of all the research and development that has gone into it - and the accolades expectedly pour in. Some of the crew on here have taken it to what they regard as bashing holden but ive firmly made my argument that: 1. 170k is a ridiculous sum of money to pay for a Commodore 2. It is nothing revolutionary nor has anything technologically groundbreaking. 3. Commodores would be no where without the Chev motor 4. Theres an absolute cream load of exotica on offer for the same money and even less 5. Those investing in this to store it away for the next 40 years so it can appreciate are nuts. 6. At the end of the day ,.,...its still a commodore. While i appreciate the comments of others to help me see the different sides of the situation, i still stand by my reasoning behind my opinion. If you have 170k to spend and want to buy this thing - you bloody well should...youre crazy if you do but if its what you want there should be nothing thatll stop you. Im so over the whole " OHH wow, theres only 200 of these things made!!! I better get one so ILL be SPECIAL!" So overrated. So..i should be whooping for joy then because my Sti Fonz will be one of only 8 next year in Australia. Was that a reason to buy the car? Absolutely. Will i bank on it? Not sure yet. But heck, its 1 of 8!! Thats rarer than rocking horse shit. Please oh please tell me you can detect my sarcasm...

Bloody heck, is a CLS AMG in that price range?

Lol, yes and remember the IRS on the Vp was it? I remember the ads' for it. Ahaha, the datsun 180b had IRS and that was made in the 70's. I still lol at the "game over" commercial that had the monaro finishing infront of the 911 turbo. Only in a game holden, only in a game.

lol, i will - its better here anyways buddy. And dont misunderstand. I dont have a "chip" on my shoulder about australia and australian cars. I think its deplorable they think this car is worth that much. That is all and I think i am also entitled to my own opinion.

Thats...err, thats umm pretty f**kin crazy. They locked you up for opening the door and tossing his keys into the snow?? shit...harsh.

Wrong. They would be good cars if they were 90k NOT 170k. There is NO way on Gods green earth that 170k worth of design and development has gone into this thing. Good cars for 170k? Have you lost it mate? 170k is good money for a GTR. You know what Holden is saying? Its more expensive which means better than this... What a crock of shit. who would choose the holden over the fully loaded M3? lol, probably a lot of you... and thats sad.

Its not me who is comparing the HSV to the 911 or GTR - Holden has done that with the price tag. 170k is a LOT of money for any "holden". Im not talking about the HRT-427 either - that on the other hand was a track weapon thinly disguised as a road car.

yeah, its revolutionary. Pillarless, with brembos and suede interior - it even has an oil cooler. Its this kind of rubbish hype that annoys me plus the fact that they would slap it with a 6 figure pricetag... inspite of the obviously tow level of technology. "...with a 6.0 litre V8 engine incorporating the latest technologies such as active fuel management and calibrated for E85 ethanol fuel." latest technologies my backside.

You know...there is not ONE thing that is revolutionary on the coupe 60... I do like the design though...and the interior. The price? Even if i can afford it im sure i will hate it.

You know, Berine has come out against him as well even as late as the day of the vote... im thinking there will be a massive fallout in the coming weeks and months... Berine and Max "The whip" Mosley taking up a corner each. Place your bets boys and girls and get your ring side seats... the show is about to begin.., Im putting a tenner on Bern by knockout in the 9th.

Brian youre making sense but seriously, you waded into a slapfest that has no winners. *grabs Brian by the shirt* "Im draggin' you out of this one mate...theres no survivors here...cmon, lets man the Fonz's"

The Official Holden Press ( garbage ) Release: Holden Fans Get 60th Anniversary Present GM Holden today marked the diamond anniversary of its first all Australian car by unveiling a stunning two-door performance thoroughbred called Coupe 60. Coupe 60 celebrates the six decades since GM Holden built the 48-215 at its Fishermans Bend plant in Port Melbourne, Victoria, and provides a glimpse of Holden's future directions in design, engineering and emerging engine technologies. Exemplifying sports luxury, Coupe 60 is a pillarless concept car ( nothing new there ) that explores ( not..exploits..? Its all in the wording.. ) the limits of Holden's current rear-wheel drive capabilities ( they brag about being behind what others are capable in a way if you read it correctly ) , combining racing looks and technology into a road going sportscar experience... ( with a supercar pricetag, thankyou very much. ) Its sophisticated appearance is delivered through simple ( unoriginal ) and powerful ( old fashioned ) design, highlighted by the pillarless ( how many times do you need to harp on about the pillarless doors? )construction and V8 supercar inspired cockpit layout ( a massive plug to the fans )and side-exiting chambered exhaust system with billet alloy tips. ( wow, im sure the environment is stoked with that development. Side tips…revolutionary man. ) Almost 60mm shorter than the VE sedan, and sitting on 21-inch centre-lock alloy wheels with unique design Kumho ( couldn't you afford Japanese or European rubber? ) high performance semi-slick tyres ( are they even road legal ), Coupe 60 captures all that's exciting about the Holden DNA. ( hmm…DNA… enough said.. ) Sorry Merli..i couldn't even be bothered reading through the rest of the garbage “press release”.

Ahaha, sorry mate, i was so wrapped up in the discussion i missed teh most important part! yes, you can count on beer or 10 with me at some stage - that'd be wicked.

piczorban merli

lol, Eug, you can forward this if you like.. i know where i stand in my "understanding" of this situation// Youre not trying to do a Dan and tell me to shut the f**k up are you mate...?? Sorry - you are a mod and all... Will i get a warning because Gm emailed you and told you to silence me? ( its not a dig at you Eug -just the irony of it all...after all - i was ready to walk away from this forum only a few hours ago and yet here i am in a debate...feisty, passionate and fired up as always... ) unfortunately, i know pretty much where they stand as well.../ Id love to give it a boot too mate...doesnt mean i agree with whats gone into it.

Well said i have to say. Think about this though. I never said the 3.8 TT was economical but it is a damn sight more than anything in the GM lineup. Progress is progress is progress. I agree anything that produces that much power has to burn something but it doesnt have to be so. LOL, look at the 430hp lexus Gas/electric engine Toyota has developed that prouces just 20%..yes 20% of the emissions of GM's/Holdens finest and you see my point. Thats plenty of poke in anyones lingo. Porsche is also in on the game as are many others. Is GM? Nope/ Holden..if GM isnt how could Holden be> Ford on the other hand has more European concerns and as such their cars reflect this.

Roy, my online counterpart ( i say this not as a joke mate ), I have seen the cubic capacities of the current lineups and its made me wonder.. Where will it stop? Mercedes has a 6.3 C class and i have to ask myself is it necessary. Perhaps not, but i will say that they know a lot more on cubic efficiency that their Aussie or American counterparts thats for sure. Is it needed. Well, again the bigger the better, right? Im not singling out "Holden" as you would have it. They are a "prime"example of the wastefulness that is corporate America in a nutshell. Look at the hummer. A fad, a trend, a phenomenon if you will and all that from a vehicle that originated from war usage? The GTR, to all Nissans credit is making use of current technologies and advancements to best effect with as little waste as possible economically, ecologically and financially as possible. GM and Holden for use of a better word could well do follow suit. Doesnt the world have enough drainage?

Roy, please tell me you dont want to have this discussion. Im not referring to DOHC and certainly not referring "trick" G.B's Advancement to me is exactly what it is to you without you having to say its the way it is Roy. You know im right on this. I love a good scrap ( read - discussion/debate ) with you mate, its a shame i cant hold my ground when it comes to teh F1 O's. I just cannot understand the lag within the Aussie circles ( O's ) in relation to the automotive industry. It all goes back to the parent company, GM...the Cheque writers. Thats the final hole in the wall. Its a shame but GM will always have an agenda and a purse-string attached to the Holden/Aussie car industry. I wish it wasnt so mate...i wish it wasnt so.

lol, Ivan i wont disagree with that although i like the boxer throb...

And there STILL wasnt enough justification for the go ahead. Ill tell you why. The car cost WAY more than holden could afford. A realistic pricetag for what was in essence a road going "racecar" with the works was over 350k. They aimed to high pure and simple. They never would have been able to justify the selling of such a car anyway. Holden have to answer to someone after all. So...this time they got it "right" in that they tapped into what they had, within Oz and from the parent GM and had a host of parts to do with the body, underbody and drivetrain waiting for enhancement. A much less costly option. But a shitload more expensove for the same money spent in a GTR or 911/ Give me either. There is NO way anyone in MY frame of mind will pay that much for a commodore. I distinctly remember a "buddy of mine" bragging about his mates 250 odd kw HSV that he paid 60k for a few years back, saying it was the best thing since sliced bread/ LOL! Its like HSV is saying they are worthy of a 911 price tag!!

Totally acceptable. I see what you mean. The thing is - and think about it for a minute... How long has GM been involved in the placement of donks in Aussie cars? Not very long im sure you will agree. Holden has its parent company, GM to thank for a lot. Im not talking about a "tiptronic" by the way. The 1994 FTO GPX had a tiptronic in it and even then the tech wasnt new...Porsche knows tiptronic better than anyone. Im talking about a twin clutch, paddle shifting, DSG Box that is use in the GTR and even the VW golf.

I realise this. One other thing that irks the shit out of me is that Aussie manufacturers cant seem to understand the concept of WEIGHT REDUCTION. i DONT understand. Why does the HSV HAVE to weigh nearly 2 tonnes!!?? It makes NO sense at all. NO HSV has to be that heavy. Simple as that. I swear, Holden needs to talk to its metal refinery ASAFP.

Roy, mate - youre missing my point at the start but coming around at the end of your post. Im not arguing the fact that OHC's can make power - shit look at top fuelers! Add a blower or a snail and ofcourse you make massive power. So what? Yes..sure. Its been done and dusted. Then brushed off and done again. Im talking about advancement mate. The kind of stuff Holden knows very little about and would be struggling to justify in the face of hard edged journo's tearing into the fact that the car has a 170k pricetag. Sorry Roy, the math does not add up. You mean to tell me the GTR and 911 arent any better than the 427 - even just because they employ more advanced technologies? Come on mate, thats one of the biggest reasons theyre better - AND they make the tricks work! Im not arguing the fact that Cubes equals power - that has been an equation we all grew up to understand. I could go on with this. What i am amazed at is that Japanese technology has always pushed the envelope, developed new areas of technology - and EFFICIENCY ( just look at hybrid technology!! Name ONE aussie car with a sniff of the stuff. You may laugh now..." that oil crisis and price bullshit is garbage" - yeh sure..ill be laughing later. )- that werent available to us before. You may argue the case for the pushrod being applicable in the right situation, historically, numerically, logistically... but i will counter argue with this... So...Holden decided to build a stomping great big 7 liter 427 cube motor inspite of the fact that theres a ..well you know it..a GLOBAL oil crisis and all the effects that go with burning the stuff. Slightly insensitive wouldnt you agree and more than a touch arrogant. Thats only the surface of it but IS NOT my main point. The Holden motor is a Chev for a start. The tech specs came from the US arm of GM...