GTScotT

You mean to say that tuning per my described 'optimal' method would require the base tune to be really good? If so I find that odd because my described method is meant to be a noobs guide to a good tune starting from scratch. But I believe you are referring to the 'use a base tune' method which I am saying most tuners do but am strongly advising against. In which case I agree the base tune would need to be GREAT and generally occurs where a tuner isn't really good. Unfortunately my car was tuned under such conditions, and minimum boost was 18psi. Says a lot. However I don't believe your post reflects the later, am confused and would like to know where you stand (plus it will help others know what an experienced tuner thinks of the above). Your opinion IS HIGHLY valued on this forum, don't disregard that fact.

An unfortunate reality that I have experienced a couple of times is being knock limited by day-of-tune boost control. Through the collection of experience and notes from various tuners I have come to realise that unless the tuner has a prior base map to go off (from a car tuned per my next instructions) that a tune will generally turn out rat shit. So if you rock up to a tuner with an SR20 and a T28, they will load one of their many thousands of T28 tunes and tweak it to suit your specific car. However, when a tuner doesn't have this I generally find that they will start at minimal timing and try advancing one degree at a time until the car reaches its peak. I have specifically found that this leads to seeing detonation fairly early and the power 'plateauing' before it ordinarily would. Usually being 20 or 30kw off 'optimal' but often with the tune looking otherwise 'OK'. What I suspect is the case is that a given motor combination will have what I call a 'knock valley' before optimal performance is achieved. That being that it will knock easier at a given timing and AFR value than it would had it been elsewhere on the load table, namely somewhere at a more aggressive tune state. What I believe to be the correct method of tuning, and way of avoiding this issue, is to start with as LITTLE boost as possible. That being under 10psi. Then tuning at this level for the most aggressive tune possible. Once achieved the tuner should then increase boost by small increments and dial back the tune in the newly reached load cells as necessary. The idea here is that the tune will pass the 'knock valley' and you will end up with a far more aggressive tune once you reach target PR. Thus giving your tuner the car with a minimum boost of 20psi up top will result in you having a dull top end. People should familiarise themselves with this issue when building their cars, and not expect the tuner to be an all out god in this respect. You should make sure that your car can run a flat boost level of sub 10psi before you pay the tuner to go balls to the wall and you should specifically ask them to tune in this way. Stao, moving forward you should not only trial your turbos at holding 20psi flat but also being perfectly controllable sub 10psi. Ideally you should supply the turbo with a 8 or 10psi actuator and a given end user should be able to use a typical boost controller to turn it up to target pressure WITHOUT need of changing actuators. This should be your goal moving forward, as it will help customers achieve better results more regularly. I hope this helps.

That's fairly standard.. what pressure actuator do you have on your turbo and what was minimum boost when you went for the tune. Also, what tuner was it?

LOL yeah its a pretty tidy result, all good. I'd like to see the graph, if it hasn't already been posted. Will help work out what its doing.

Hmm well its not a BAD result, not at all.. 250kw all in between 3500-4000 is pretty good. It definitely tells me that the turbo is doing its thing and its doing it well.. If there is a 'problem' it is somewhere else on the setup. A 2.5 is probably good for 270 max, and there is no guarantee that a given motor combo can draw the max from a given turbo. Have you asked your tuner what could be causing it? I find its easier if you tell them it has a brand name turbo they tend to listen more and try harder when they think it has an expensive brand name on it, like Garrett or GReddy.

I want to know the above also, I thought it was T2 but .85 is quite large

What was your result and why are you underwhelmed?

LOL well if you are going to retune on E85 there is basically only going to be gains... The 16G6 will flow similar to a 20G once you get the PR up there, and E85 is going to let you do it FYI Kando DO sell the small 16G and 16G6, typically they will call the 16G6 the Evo 3 spec item. If you need help to order or want to be sure your getting the right stuff just drop me a line

Kane, there are 2 ways to do it. As noted by Lith you will need a new comp housing... So you can do one of the following: A: buy a new core and housing, sell your old core and housing: http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbocompressorhousing3td06garrett60-1wheel-1-1.aspx http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbocartridgechradsmeclipsetalonevo3td05h16g.aspx Rough cost $440 Or; B: buy a new housing and wheel kit, then have it installed and your existing turbo re-balanced: http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/mitsubishi3turboanti-surgecompressorhousingandwheetd05htd0616g.aspx Rough cost $250 (I would do it this way, provided you find a reputable and affordable turbo reco place) However I would ask for a non anti-surge housing. You can email them and ask for stuff per normal.

LOL knowing the Ford Barra thats probably revving to 6,000... Meaning its on full boost preeeeeetty close to 3,000. Thought I might just let everyone know.. LOL

All RB's have the same bell housing and crank bolt patterns. So you will be able to bolt the gearbox to the engine. However fitting the gearbox into the car may require some work. I recommend you start searching, particularly on commondoor forums.

Hmm the 18G wheel is that middle point so I wouldn't be surprised if it needed a set amount of boost to do its thing. However if you wanted more response (Kane) you could take from Lith's experiences and swap to a 16G6 core (it will bolt straight on without modification AT ALL). In old speak the commonly used sizes were 16g, 18g and 20g, with flow increasing respectively.. However with the introduction of the Evo 3 there was a revised 16g called the 16g6 which (on paper and at peak flow) flowed within 10hp of the 20g and picked up SFA lag over the old 16g (which was notably more responsive than an 18g). The change was to go to a larger OD compressor and keep a small inducer, meaning its a small trim wheel and is happy opperating at higher PR. Therefore a quick swap to a 16g6 and a couple of hundred on a retune could see you making the same power on a couple of PSI more boost, but with improved response. Sorry for the blab. Food for thought!

LOL you sir would likely be happier with a straight SS2. However, the new highflow profile amazes me, and a PU version of that (.82 T3 rear housing) might just rock socks on your motor!

The compressor is the newer gen 11 blade SS compressor I'm sure. They are all using that now. But I notice Stao is actually using his T3 5 bolt rear housing, so that means the bearing case and turbine wheel are no longer the GT28 sized item. Stao I am SERIOUSLY interested in this turbo... It may complement my T3 highmount setup I have lurking in the garage. Please share results ASAP!

What are the changes Stao? I was thinking the turbine on your current highflow seems to be of made of stardust or something, and was wondering if that technology can be carried over the the SS1PU? I flat out think a 2IU highflow on my SR would be crazy.. I'm so tempted to try.

SO f**kING HYPER

Am also using Kando lines with my SS1PU on my SR20. I simply used the banjo Stao provided and screwed the -4AN kando line onto that. The rest work a treat!

Actually he can have all 3, turbo the RB30E. If it blows a replacement motor costs a case of beer, and we all know you don't need a DOHC head to make an RB30 perform. Do the following: high mount manifold (ask hypergear if BRAE make one and he can get you a discount) 50mm gate from hypergear hypergear G3 turbo fmic tbe adaptronic ecu (order from hypergear with your turbo and gate) + tune decent injectors around 1kcc regrind cam to a decent turbo profile (must be done to make decent power) Totals about $6,000 if you shop smart. Add another 2k if you plan to run an RB25 box. Another 1k for a clutch that will hold the power. It may seem cheaper to slap in a stock RB25 but then you will only need to spend the above 6k on that to make it go fast once you are bored of 150rwkw. I reckon that answers all your questions in one hit. Thread closed.

Winner!! Thats a good graph. Almost half your RPM range is on power, and peak torque would be pre 4k Anyone building a sub 300kw RB25 would be silly to buy anything else.

Don't do the top larger. Its old V8 theory and I reckon you will end up with pathetic blow by issues Having first hand experienced the difference of two motors with larger bottom rings I can tell you a little more gap on the bottom improved blow by. That engine has pathetic ventilation and zero blow by issues. Factory and in no need of repair it pushed oil passed the GT30's seals because of poor ventilation, same motor and turbo now faultless. Black magic. Bore x 0.0045" is rule of thumb which will equal .00158", call it 16.. I think 18 is going to be better with your choice of 4 or 6 thou extra on the bottom.

OK, so here it is. 16 Thou top ring and 20 thou bottom ring would be considered 'spot on' for street application. 18 Thou top ring and 24 thou bottom will be for race application. Your bottom ring should be 4-6 thou larger than your top. The two motors I built recently I went 18 thou for the top ring and then 22 and 24 thou for the second, the motor that I went 24 thou on the second is notably free'er than the one with a 22 thou bottom ring and also appears to have slightly better blow-by. However the motor with 18 and 22 is as much more aggressive in feel as the other is free'er, and happier to make power. The 2 thou difference in bottom ring accounts for 10psi static compression in comparable motors. Most advice I received from machine shops told me to go 15 thou top and bottom, with the occasional shop telling me to go for a larger top ring. CP themselves recommended the 4-6 thou increase to the second ring and this was confirmed with ONE respectable shop.. I ended up following their advice and making the top ring a little larger than recommended, but following the 4-6 rule for the bottom. In your case, and if I were building it for myself, I would happy go 18-22 again.

Rings are easy! You just need a good eye and decent tools. You will need the following: - A ring grinder (I used a dremel rock on a cordless at low speed, balls) - A high quality feeler gauge - A nylon or urethane hammer (a small thing) You press the ring into the bore and use the piston to level it 100%, tapping it down slowly with the nylon hammer. Use the ring lands as your level with your eye.. Once its level remove the piston and very carefully slide your gauge in at 90 degrees. DO NOT twist of flex the feeler gauges, it will twist the ring which you have carefully made level and make your gaps off. If you tell me your bore diameter I can make a recommendation to the ring gaps if needed.

To be honest I would replace it. I had a look on the Nitto website and like most other MLS gaskets it has a LIGHT composite layer just to seal the slight imperfections between surfaces.. Once they get heat through them you never get that back no matter what it looks like. After having built a few motors and done a lot of reading (post realising the faux pas on my tractor) I can confirm you need to go on bolt specs. Bolts are essentially springs which provide pre-load when securing 2 parts, which is achieved by a level of stretch. Think of it like you holding a spring in your hands and pulling it outwards.. To achieve a set amount of resistance from the spring you will need to pull it a specific distance which also has a relationship to the amount of force required to make it move (hence why some MFG's advertise a degree post torque setting). So in clearest thought its definitely the bolt MFG who determines the optimal parameters. It's not that delicate though (trying not to scare you). I was having the same thoughts when building the tractor and did a lot of experimenting. I found that degreeing the crank mains to Nissan specs took 60ft/lbs of torque, which was exactly what was specified elsewhere. Go figure *rolls eyes*

Go the cheaper one. It's a hall effect sensor and a trigger wheel, the majority of the work is done by the ECU. So unless the shit is made poor quality and lack luster in terms of fitment then there should be no issue. Shame its an anchor, ETS make a trigger for the tractor motors and its dirt cheap. Torque settings are nothing. Just identify your bolts against their parts listings and you will have all your torque settings. Piece of piss. Just make sure you know how to measure them though... Not like me, I took the wrong measurement on my rod bolts and torqued against the wrong part number. No harm done though, am in the process of rectifying now. I just wish they'd publish more info on identifying the bolt they supply. My rods came with a generic spec sheet for about 20 different bolts, and measurements used to identify each but no instructions on how to properly measure them

Assemble yourself mate. There is definitely no better way. I believe in it so much I have stocked up on tools just for doing that. Bolt stretch gauge, good torque wrench, micrometers, run out gauge, degree wheel kit. All stuff that proves invaluable. As they say, if you want the job done right you need to do it yourself P.S. Having finished the build on my own car earlier this year I would definitely have spent more on an ecu and trigger setup had I known what I know now. I've driven a couple of cars with crank triggers and they are a LOT more crisp and willing to rev. Tunes are that much closer to the bleeding edge of peak performance, if your tuner is up to the task. Chanel the funds from assembly to the crank trigger and take all the glory.