TheTunersGroup

Hi Stephen, Have just sent you an email. - The Tuners Group

Well done to Duncan also ! Duncan also has an Aeromotions wing - the R2 Dynamic Wing. Duncan, is that a new class record at Wakefield ? - The Tuners Group

Hi Stephen, Aeromotions has already done extensive back to back testing and published data from the back to back testing at Thunderhill Raceway complete with Traqmate Data Acquisition data, a summary of the data and info about the car, driver and testing methodology, and a detailed turn by turn data analysis, which includes plots turn by turn of the lateral G-force, acceleration and braking G-force, velocity, and time difference. As mentioned in the other thread with Duncan's results ... So at the Thunderhill test, adding an Aeromotions Static Wing shaved 0.9 second off the lap time without an Aeromotions Wing. Lap times with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing With Centre Fence were 1.5 seconds a lap faster than with the Aeromotions Static Wing, and 2.4 seconds faster than without an Aeromotions wing. There is data from the back to back testing at Thunderhill Raceway complete with Traqmate Data Acquisition data, a summary of the data and info about the car, driver and testing methodology, and a detailed turn by turn data analysis, which includes plots turn by turn of the lateral G-force, acceleration and braking G-force, velocity, and time difference ... The data from the Thunderhill test and the feedback from teams using the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings is here ... http://www.tunersgroup.com/Products/aeromotions.html - The Tuners Group

Hi Roy, GGTTRR has posted a new thread tonight with his results from Wakefield Park today running an Aeromotions R2 Static Wing on his R35. Note that GGTTRR is running the static version of the Aeromotions Wing. It uses the same aerofoil as the R2 Dynamic wing, but does not have the added benefit of dynamic wing angle control (though it can be upgraded to dynamic operation later). GGTTRR's post reads ... Well done to both GGTTRR and Duncan ! The new thread about the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing on GGTTRR's R35 is here ... http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Ae...ll-t318979.html - The Tuners Group

Great work GGTTRR ! Almost a full second improvement is a great result, especially at a track like Wakefield with a lap time of just over 1 minute. GGTTRR is running the static version of the Aeromotions R2 wing, the R2 Static. So that makes the laptime improvement of almost a second even more impressive. The Aeromotions R2 Static Wing uses the same aerofoil as the R2 Dynamic Wing, but does not have the added benefit of dynamic wing angle control (though the R2 Static Wing can be upgraded to dynamic operation later with the dynamic upgrade kit). Well done to Duncan also ! Duncan also has an Aeromotions wing - the R2 Dynamic Wing. Well said GGTTRR We spend an enormous amount of time keeping right up to date with cutting edge high quality racing technology and being ahead of the curve. We always knew that once Australian cars started running Aeromotions wings that just like the overseas results the Australian lap times would show that the Aeromotions wings work very well indeed. So we're very pleased to see another Australian car posting such a great lap time improvement with one of our Aeromotions wings on it. And it's yet more confirmation that we got it right when we first discovered the Aeromotions wings many months ago and made the decision to bring the Aeromotions range to Australia. As we've said many times in other threads about the Aeromotions wings ... The key is the laptime, which speaks for itself and clearly demonstrates the effectiveness of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings. The stopwatch doesn't lie. - The Tuners Group

Hi all, A new article is now on the WTAC website about Mark Berry's R34 which we sponsor. The article is titled "Advan/Hi Octane GT-R now a “bullet!”" The article is here ... http://www.superlap.com.au/2009/?p=3283 Just 21 sleeps til WTAC - The Tuners Group

Good to hear that Sebastian and Brett are OK. It looks like the weather was wild at Targa today - video here ... Looks like there have been quite a few cars damaged - video here of some of them ... Photos are being posted here of the event ... http://www.sportcom.com.au/targatasmania/i...1&Itemid=68 Videos are being posted here ... http://www.sportcom.com.au/targatasmania/i...8&Itemid=61 - The Tuners Group

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Hi Mark, When you say "all dry CF", are these parts made from pre-preg carbon fibre ? There is an article here from Aeromotions about the difference between pre-preg and some other types of carbon fibre construction here ... http://www.apexkings.com/entry.php/25-Dry-...Fiber-Explained - Waenick Pty Ltd

It's still in the build phunky monkey. I'm in two minds in terms of which way to go bodywork wise on it. The original plan was 964 RSR bodywork (which we already have). There are photos here of one of the Rauh Welt 964's ... http://www.terra2imports.ca/ab-larger/116431768151138.jpg http://www.terra2imports.ca/ab-larger/116431768083778.jpg http://www.terra2imports.ca/ab-larger/116431768188432.jpg But I recently saw some more photos of this early car with early 1970's RSR bodywork (the black car on this page) and it's one of the best looking 911's I've ever seen ... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...tml#post2209063 Our car has already had the widebody conversion done in steel, so we can fit either type of bodywork as shown above with a few tweeks to the front and rear. We can fit an intercooler designed to fit under the bootlid / tail like the one on the Supercharged 911 ... I love the Rauh Welt 964's but there is something incredibly cool about the idea of a full on monster with early 1970's RSR bodywork. We also want to do things like including an Aeromotions Dynamic Wing on the car, so we are doing a few renderings to see how the wing would look with early bodywork, but at the moment the early bodywork is the direction I'm leaning in. We've been flat out with stuff for customers running in Targa Tasmania and Superlap the last few weeks, so we'll make a decision on bodywork and get back into the build after Superlap. - The Tuners Group

We'd have loved to see the Supercharged 911 compete in Superlap - it's a 1971 911 which was running a custom supercharged 911SC engine ... Lap times are ... Eastern Creek 1 min 44s Oran South 48 secs Oran GP 1 min 17 secs Wakefield 1 min 06 secs. Extremely impressive for a car that is 39 years old. Info on the car here ... http://www.tunersgroup.com/supercharged_911.html Videos of it here ... http://www.tunersgroup.com/Videos/Supercharged_911.html We can't find anywhere where it says in the rules "No quad-rotored rear engine 1971 911's are permitted" In terms of quad rotors, the Scoot Quad Rotor is one of my favourite cars of all time ! The noise it makes is epic - there's a video of it here ... http://www.tunersgroup.com/Videos/Scoot_4_rotor_RX-7.html And yes, we did do some research to see if a quad rotor would fit in the back of an early 911 - The Tuners Group

We have forwarded your comments to Aeromotions and will await an official reply from them. Which model of wing was on the car you saw ? - The Tuners Group

Hi Roy, It's up to LSX-438 to decide if he wants to post more info such as the G-force plots from his testing etc. LSX-438 is competing in the CAMS Supersprint Championships, and no racing team can be expected to post their testing data plots publicly (which could potentially help any teams who are competing against them). If you want to see back to back testing data, as previously mentioned in this thread: So at the Thunderhill test, adding an Aeromotions Static Wing shaved 0.9 second off the lap time without an Aeromotions Wing. Lap times with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing With Centre Fence were 1.5 seconds a lap faster than with the Aeromotions Static Wing, and 2.4 seconds faster than without an Aeromotions wing. There is data from the back to back testing at Thunderhill Raceway complete with Traqmate Data Acquisition data, a summary of the data and info about the car, driver and testing methodology, and a detailed turn by turn data analysis, which includes plots turn by turn of the lateral G-force, acceleration and braking G-force, velocity, and time difference ... The data from the Thunderhill test and the feedback from teams using the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings is here ... http://www.tunersgroup.com/Products/aeromotions.html ... The key is the laptime, which speaks for itself and clearly demonstrates the effectiveness of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings. The stopwatch doesn't lie. - The Tuners Group

LSX-438 is running the Aeromotions R2 Dynamic Wing in the CAMS NSW Supersprint Championships. LSX-438 has already stated in this thread ... ... and ... I have permission to run the active wing, so active, yes. - The Tuners Group

Of course a factory rear wing would be integrated. Take a look at the photos below of the factory movable wings on the Porsche 964 and Panamera. In terms of the quality standards and speed rating standards that Aeromotions wings are built to, the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing and R2 Dynamic wings are both rated to 321 km/h. The Aeromotions S2 Dynamic Wing is rated to 321 km/h +. In terms of build quality, the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing and R2 Dynamic Wing use a carbon fibre wing blade and aircraft aluminum uprights. The Aeromotions S2 Dynamic Wing uses teardrop shaped uprights from an aeroplane, Formula 1 grade pre-preg carbon fibre, internal actuators, titanium hardware, and extreme heat sinking. When was the last time you saw titanium and Formula 1 grade pre-preg carbon fibre on a car ? The Aeromotions Wing certainly does not "flap around in the breeze at highway speeds". As mentioned above, the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing and R2 Dynamic wings are both rated to 321 km/h. The Aeromotions S2 Dynamic Wing is rated to 321 km/h +. Why would an OEM movable wing need to be hydraulically actuated ? Porsche fitted an active rear wing to the Porsche 964 (shown above) and that uses an electric wing motor, not a hydraulic motor. http://www.performance2and4.co.uk/964_wtlookcoupe_n.htm reads ... The Porsche Panamera also has an active rear wing ... What ? What "play" are you talking about ? The Aeromotions wing was born in the wind tunnel at Massachusetts Institute of Technology MIT (the world's premier private research and engineering university and a participating institution in the National Space Grant College and Fellowship Program which is administered by NASA), and has had countless hours of refinement through Computational Fluid Dynamic modeling (CFD). Are you suggesting that such a wing would have "inherent play in the system" ?! Have you ever seen an Aeromotions Dynamic Wing up close ? The system that adjusts the wing angle in the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings is extremely well thought out and provides very precise control over the wing angles. The Porsche factory movable rear wing on the Porsche 964 uses a mechanical cable to transmit the power to move the wing from the electric wing motor to the wing mechanics. I know this because I have a Porsche 964 rear wing on my workbench right now. If cables were not suitable for use in movable wing applications, Porsche would not have used a mechanical cable system. The fact that Porsche used a mechanical cable system on the Porsche 964 speaks volumes. How much do you know about the different kinds of mechanical cables used to transfer mechanical force in racecar applications ? The cable on the Porsche 964 wing is not like a pull cable where when the force is released a spring pulls as the force unloads - it is a twist cable, and clearly Porsche chose the metallurgy for that twist cable based on the engineering requirements. Top time attack and race cars like the Cannonball R35 GT-R, Crawford Subaru WRX STi, AMS/NOS Energy Drink EVO X, and Mark Berry's Advan R34 GT-R all use Aeromotions Dynamic Wings. The precision and reliability of the system used on the Aeromotions Dynamic wing to control the wing angle is well known to all those teams and well proven in top levels of time attack racing around the world. $15K more ?! Where did $15K come from ?! A link to the prices on the Aeromotions Dynamic wings has already been posted in this thread and are also available on our website. US retail pricing on the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing is US$1699 and for the Aeromotions R2.ONE Dynamic Wing is US$3249. That is nowhere near $15,000 ! In terms of your comment that "you will always suffer from the drag/downforce tradeoff", any moving object with a cross section has aerodynamic drag (unless it is moving in the vacuum of space) - that is simple physics and the laws of nature. The Aeromotions Dynamic Wing has the ability for drag to be reduced by moving the wing element into a flatter, low drag angle of attack on the straights. It also allows you to run a steeper angle of attack for more downforce in corners, without having to have the wing at the steeper angle of attack when on the straight. So it's simple - you get downforce when and where you need it, and low aerodynamic drag on the straights. Add to that the high efficiency low drag wing profile used on the Aeromotions Wings which was developed from military research into wing profiles used on unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV's), and it's simple to see how the combination of: 1. a high efficiency low drag wing profile 2. the ability of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing to flatten into a low drag angle of attack on straights, and 3. the ability of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing to run programmable and adjustable steeper high downforce angles of attack under braking and in corners ... help cars fitted Aeromotions Dynamic Wings perform so well on the track. As we have said a number of times in this thread ... The key is the laptime, which speaks for itself and clearly demonstrates the effectiveness of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings. The stopwatch doesn't lie. - The Tuners Group

Hi fungoolie, The Aeromotions Dynamic Wing addresses drag in a number of different ways ... Firstly it flattens automatically into a flatter low drag angle of attack on the straights - so it can run a high downforce angle of attack in the corners, AND a low drag angle of attack on the straights. That is one of the key advantages of having automated computer control over the wing angle. On the Aeromotions R2.TWO Dynamic Wing you can have separate adjustable angles of attack for straightline, high speed cornering, low speed cornering and braking. The photo above is of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing controller from the S2 Wing showing some of the wing tuning controls. The Aeromotions Dynamic Wings come with a stock wing angle tune for your car pre-programmed into the controller. The angles are simple to adjust and an in car remote (shown above) is included to adjust the wing angle settings from the driver's seat for custom tuning. In addition, apart from the wing angle changing to a flatter low drag position on the straights, additionally the wing profile of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing is a high efficiency low drag profile that was developed from military research into wing profiles used on unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV's). So when the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing controller flattens the wing into the low drag position on the straights, you get the advantages of a low drag wing profile in a flatter position. There is detailed info about how Aeromotions Dynamic Wings address drag, as well as info on custom tuning here ... http://www.tunersgroup.com/AM_custom_tuning.html - The Tuners Group

Aeromotions Dynamic Wings are a proven quantity and there is a lot of hard data to show how well they work. These cars all run Aeromotions wings ... - the Cannonball R35 GT-R (winner of One Lap Of America) - the Crawford Subaru WRX STi - the AMS/NOS Energy Drink EVO X - Mark Berry's Advan / Hi Octane Racing R34 GT-R See this post which includes a lot of info about lap times etc ... http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...t&p=5169103 As we wrote in that post ... - The Tuners Group

Hi Luke, There is a product matrix table showing the differences in specs between each model of Aeromotions wing and US prices here ... http://www.tunersgroup.com/Products/aeromotions_matrix.html - The Tuners Group

Like this ? ... Video here (great blog post Kris) ... http://www.gtrblog.com/2010/04/13/nomuken-...-r-first-video/ - The Tuners Group

Hi Bill, Aeromotions designed a reinforcement system for carbon bootlids. Aeromotions also designed a reinforcement system for factory bootlids. There is info about both those reinforcement systems on this page on our website ... http://www.tunersgroup.com/Aeromotions_mounting.html - Adam

Hi all, A bit of news on something we have been organising behind the scenes with this driver and his manager in Japan ... Toshiki Yoshioka, Works Bell sponsored D1 driver and winner of the 2008 Formula D Las Vegas event, is coming to Australia for the World Time Attack Challenge. Yoshioka has been invited to compete in the drift section of World Time Attack Challenge, and will be driving a 475hp 1JZ Toyota powered S13 in Sydney. If any of you have ever seen videos of him running in D1 or Formula D, you'll know how spectacular his driving is. We're going to be very busy at WTAC with Yoshioka's visit, our sponsorship of Mark Berry's Advan R34 GT-R, and a number of our customer cars running in this event also - it'll be an incredible event ! More info about Yoshioka's visit, a video interview with him, and a video of him competing in Japan can be found here ... http://www.tunersgroup.com/TunerWire_Live/..._australia.html - The Tuners Group

Hi Martin, In that photo above, where does the line carrying the water end in a mist nozzle ? Are you spraying the mist into the centre / eye of the rotor or onto the friction surface ? - Adam

LOL Martin. Did you see the molten lead segment on Mythbusters too ? - Adam

Great work Duncan ! Tyres are the same but a different/newer set (i have used them for one other track day) so there may be some time there, not sure. The wing is variable/active but i was running it with a very agressive maneuvering angle (probably less than 1* vs braking mode angle) ... The bigger question is, did the extra downforce play a role... i think it did. We have data from another r35 on the same day (with stocker wing) and you can see where it comes into play on the charts quite clearly ... edit: otherwise same power/alignment There is a comment from Kunani who owns the Budez R35 which is running an Aeromotions Dynamic Wing on this page ... http://www.tunersgroup.com/Products/aeromotions.html ... which reads ... "In general the tracks we have been on are around 2 minute laps and the wing in an active mode shaves 1.5 to 2 seconds off each lap." So a drop in lap time of "about one second" at Wakefield reported by Duncan running the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing doesn't surprise me at all. Aero changes can make a significant difference to lap times, as mentioned in the many comments from other drivers who are running the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing. Also a was comment posted on Nagtroc from a driver who was running the static version of the Aeromotions wing which reads ... On an aero setup like Duncan ran at Wakefield, where he said "i was running it with a very agressive maneuvering angle (probably less than 1* vs braking mode angle)", you get more downforce in cornering than running the wing at a less aggressive angle of attack, and on a track like Wakefield where cornering speed is very important, cornering downforce and cornering grip can play a significant role in lap times. That tunability of being able to choose what angles of attack you run the Aeromotions wing at (with separately tunable angles for straightline, low speed cornering, high speed cornering and braking on the Aeromotions R2.TWO wing) is something that racers love, because it lets you dial in the wing settings to suit a particular track. The Aeromotions Dynamic Wings are a proven quantity and there is already a lot of hard data to show how well they work. Likewise how to test aero changes is also already known and Aeromotions have already published detailed testing data. As we wrote in a post earlier in this thread ... "A number of teams running the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings have already publicly released info on their lap time improvements with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing. Physics works exactly the same way in Australia as it does in the US, so the US results are just as relevant to Australia." Aeromotions also did a back to back test at Thunderhill Raceway (screenshot from the test above). As it says on our website, lap times at the back to back test were ... So at the Thunderhill test, adding an Aeromotions Static Wing shaved 0.9 second off the lap time without an Aeromotions Wing. Lap times with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing With Centre Fence were 1.5 seconds a lap faster than with the Aeromotions Static Wing, and 2.4 seconds faster than without an Aeromotions wing. There is data from the back to back testing at Thunderhill Raceway complete with Traqmate Data Acquisition data, a summary of the data and info about the car, driver and testing methodology, and a detailed turn by turn data analysis, which includes plots turn by turn of the lateral G-force, acceleration and braking G-force, velocity, and time difference. See the link below for more info and links to the full test data. In addition there are a number of testimonials from drivers detailing the lap time improvements they have experienced with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing at the link below, including comments about it on: - the Cannonball R35 GT-R (winner of One Lap Of America) - the Crawford Subaru WRX STi - the AMS/NOS Energy Drink EVO X - the Budez R35 GT-R, and - Mark Berry's Advan / Hi Octane Racing R34 GT-R. The fact that Duncan's results reinforce the results achieved by other teams is not surprising at all. The data from the Thunderhill test and the feedback from teams using the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings is here ... http://www.tunersgroup.com/Products/aeromotions.html There is also a thread here where all the "does it work ?" questions were asked and answered back in October & November last year ... http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Ad...er-t293942.html If you generate more downforce then of course a car is going to feel more planted - that is simple physics. The Aeromotions Wings use a cutting edge high efficiency, low drag wing profile that was developed from military research into wing profiles used on unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV's). The same wing profile is used on the R2 Static Wing and the R2 Dynamic Wing, so even if you run the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing, you still get the benefit of that high efficiency, low drag wing profile, and the static version can be upgraded later to dynamic operation. Add into that the fact that having dynamic control of the angle of attack on the dynamic versions of the Aeromotions wings allows you to run a steeper angle of attack in corners for maximum downforce and grip, AND a flatter angle of attack on the straights (producing less drag on the straights than if the wing was in the high downforce position on the straights), and it's easy to see that the reason the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings work is engineering and physics. Aero plays a much greater role in laptimes than many people realise, which is part of the reason why so many of the World Time Attack Challenge cars are doing aero development in the lead up to Superlap in May. The key is the laptime, which speaks for itself and clearly demonstrates the effectiveness of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings. The stopwatch doesn't lie. - The Tuners Group

The lap record for a V8 Supercar round Eastern Creek is 1:31.7301 ... http://www.eastern-creek-raceway.com/lap_records.htm Will be interesting to see how quick it'll be on the tyres used for Superlap. - Adam