Trozzle

FWIW, I've had some pretty profound revelations during a really bad trip, so even that experience wasn't wasted haha

I probably should have termed it "MDMA assisted therapy" in my first post to be honest, that's a much more appropriate and accurate term. The therapy is the 'fix', the MDMA just lubricates the conversation.

I think you misunderstand the circumstances in which they'd be used. MDMA for example will allow the patient to open up a lot more to the therapist, in the case that perhaps what was causing their PTSD was being held inside. MDMA removes inhibitions and social barriers very well, so for a patient emotionally 'unwilling' to openly discuss their experiences, it can make it a lot easier. Depression can be caused by a great many things as we know, and I surely don't support the use of ANY drug as a bandaid fix - including and least of all conventional anti-depressants like SSRI/SNRIs. I believe the use of psychedelics such mushrooms allow the user to see things from a different perspective and work through them. You'd be surprised some of the changes you can make in your mind whilst under their influence - even as someone who's used them exclusively for "recreational" purpose, I can attest to these effects; I've broken down some social barriers of my own whilst under their influence, such as my massive fear of rejection by the opposite sex. It allowed me to realise such things as our time on earth being limited, and to let certain opportunities slip is irrational as that "time" will never be repeated, etc etc. Hard to explain, particularly to someone who hasn't experienced the psychedelic headspace themselves, but I assure you beyond the "fun" there are advantages in using such things for working through psychological...uhhh...situations? (lost for words). But again, no I don't support their use as a bandaid for anything that has a true underlying cause.

You'll probably read this as bait, and I'll admit in a tiny way it is (though I will ensure I remain mature here), but what are your thoughts on using psychoactive compounds such a Psilocin (active alkaloid in magic mushrooms) for medicinal purposes such as the treatment of cluster headaches, depression, and end-of-life anxiety/stress? Or MDMA combined with an appropriate therapist to ease PTSD in members of the armed forces who've returned from distressing combat environments? The above is completely separate to the issues we've debated thus far. Consider the above being 'legal' in explicitly controlled therapeutic settings, using pharmaceutical grade/purity compounds. Do you still consider them to be harmful drugs, or do you accept their medicinal value in these settings (again, this is nothing to do with someone like me using them recreationally)? One I don't expect you to respond to: do you dismiss claims of cannabinoids having positive effects in cancer treatment (I don't mean "cure" by the way, that's well and truly still up for debate)?

Derp

Just as many LEGITIMATE industries as you would if you were to home-brew beer. In fact, more legitimate industries - you'd be supporting a (likely relatively small) business from which you obtained all your kit (presuming hydro). You'd be supporting the local electricity suppliers (lol). You'd be supporting the local Bunnings/Masters/Nursery should you obtain any fertilisers or treatments from them instead of the original shop that sold you the kit. You're just not supporting the right industries who sacrifice a portion of their exorbitant profits to certain influential/authoritative figures....or is that a little too left wing to laugh at? haha Dafuq....I think you need to fix some quote tags yo

You're 2 hours late brah.

Anyone else?

FYP

At the very least, you guys are probably doing me a favour by giving XGTRX enough crap to read back through that he'll likely lose interest and f**k off hahaha

Good stuff on getting the place in Crace especially with those added bonuses haha...I'll be looking to move Gungahlin/Belco in the next few months. Starting to get the shits with Queanbeyan, what with being just far enough out of Canberra you more or less NEED a car to do anything. The shithouse road quality is driving me insane as well. Most roads around town, including the arterial ones to get the fk out of this place, feel more like derelict rollercoasters.

Oh also, "dehumanising the issue" would be a term I'd use to describe YOUR approach, as YOUR approach is the one that completely ignores inherent traits of human nature like curiosity. To dismiss this is to dismiss human nature, removing one of the human aspects of why we use drugs.

Read the f**king ABC article I linked on abusive patients in the ER - exactly where you're speaking from. What makes your thoughts hold more value than theirs? I mean they made the effort to contribute to an informative insightful piece of journalism; all you can manage are some inane rants on an internet forum. You can't even manage to read what you're being provided before you come flying back with more emotional ramblings and personal insults mate. This. Also a large number of people some of us idolise or look up to for inspiration have admitted to using such things as LSD, as well as contributing some/a lot of their successful careers to the mind-expanding effects of the drug. Do you [XGTRX] also argue these people contributed nothing but add to the horrible drain you claim each and every one of these illicit substances have - with NO exceptions - on society?

Have a [fully functional] ornamental opium pipe at home. Housemates brought it back from Cambodia. It's unused and shall remain that way lol, but I'm actually surprised it came through customs no problems. It's paraphernalia to a T.

Bahahaha figured I should've reworded that one. Oh wells.

And I've got ALL the time in the world to keep it spinning around lol

Please, do elaborate further and enlighten me on exactly why this illegal industry exists? History might give you an idea if you look back to alcohol prohibition, but god forbid you might have to do a 10 minute Google search, bringing you down to our level of intelligence in the process. To promote abstinence is the height of ignorance to human nature. It's been proven countless times in the past to be fruitless and ineffective, not just on the topic of substance abuse. Anyway, if you're still so sure you're right, perhaps you should contact the author of my above linked article pertaining abusive patients in QLD and give them the REAL story to run. Do you dispute the interviewee's claims that alcohol presents a much larger problem to them than methylamphetamine? Given I personally separate meth from the other recreational drugs (a point of mine you still seem unable to comprehend in your sweeping statements), this is just more fuel to ban alcohol again. I mean it makes perfect sense if it's leading to this kind of bullshit unacceptable behaviour, don't you agree? (hint: I don't agree, we've already learned how f**king stupid that approach is)

I know, and I DO see the full picture. I DO see indirect costs borne by the taxpayer. If we really sat back and looked at where our taxpayer dollars are actually going though, I think this impact would drop very rapidly down the list of issues with where our money goes. Like I've said before, though maybe not in this thread - I would MUCH rather my tax dollars go to a "dole bludging junkie" or put towards helping other people with their self-inflicted drug problems that I'll never face myself, than I would have it contribute to say the near AU$50 million expense claims by our MPs in the first 6 months of this year. I know it's not a case of taking issue with one problem or another, and just because we're already pissing money away somewhere else doesn't justify spending more here, but I've had people cut loose over the idea that they might somehow be contributing to testing facilities (since that's the primary goal at this point, after the recent festival deaths), which wouldn't be the case if my perfect world scenario were applicable (volunteer organisations running off their own coin and donations)....but to digress on the topic of "drugs" for a second, this shit makes my blood boil and makes these propose costs look trivial - especially when we consider how much money we'd be SAVING by no longer going to such ineffective measures in our War on DrugsTM Our MPs are rolling in our money and people care about a few bucks for drug testing, if that. Also another interesting article from this morning regarding what XGTRX must unfortunately deal with in his employment: Staff at Queensland hospitals enduring soaring rate of patient violence, figures reveal

f**k dude that's nuts! I'm not sure I interpreted your post though - what was the cause of the coma? Alcoholism, or something else? Sorry, I'm pretty fkn tired right now haha We spin our stuff, and yeah I absolutely agree that makes it not only much worse on you (since you're now also smoking tobacco haha) but harder to "give up" as you're also giving yourself a nicotine dependence. Personally I didn't notice any "withdrawals" I'd account to either nicotine or cannabis when I went on a holiday to Thailand, so I suppose my intake is low enough to avoid it hahaha

Sorry if I gave the impression I thought you "didn't know shit", I didn't even mean to question whether you'd ever taken it yourself haha I actually figured you had by the way you speak on it (as in you aren't demonising the fk out of it without experience). nothing wrong with commenting on it without having ever tried it, especially when you're in support of harm reduction. It's when you speak like old mate above on how everything is destroying your body and mind, yet have never experienced it for yourself. You've absolutely got the right idea, and I'd like to hope the ultimate goal is legalisation (that's a selfish wish mind you ). It's just all I'm saying is people need to know the FACTS on these substances and how you can still come to harm through abusing them, given the ridiculous volume of misleading information they've been lead to believe over the decades. Like those with no interest in using these drugs themselves, yet are still categorically against someone they'll never meet in their lives being allowed to use them either because of how supposedly harmful they are if used at all. And as someone who wishes for nothing more than to go out and have a fun night with my girlfriend, making new friends along the way, without running the risk of a criminal record for possessing merely 2 capsules of MDMA in my pocket, decriminalisation is simply right. What am I doing to harm anyone, besides some nightclub's alcohol sales (actually f**k them, I still pay $10 to get into the joint).

I must ask, if you don't mind sharing Corey, but what is your experience with recreational drugs? I'm honestly curious, as while I agree with your argument and points, my experience in "the scene" (f**k I hate saying that) tells me first and foremost, above manufacturing quality product and regulating it, still lies the need for education. I see far too many people every time I go out who have no idea what they're getting into and no matter how long I sit there and have a chat with them outside the club, they just don't understand that they're still pushing the line way too far with their use. In fact, and this is a very strange point, a lot of these users are actually lucky that what they were consuming wasn't actually MDMA, or it was very low quality. If it were legitimate MDMA, the amount they'd consume each session and the frequency they'd do it would have f**ked them sideways into possibly the worst psychological (and potentially physical) state they've ever encountered. The fact that what they were consuming didn't have the same mechanism of action or pharmacology as MDMA potentially saved them a really bad time. Stories of idiots consuming up to (and exceeding) a whole f**king gram through the night. They're lucky. 400mg spread over 3 doses is enough to have me feeling like ratshit (yeah I've learned the hard way....)

"Impact on society" isn't straight forward, nor is it the same for each drug in question here. Each drug will potentially impact only specific aspects (?) of society, in varying degrees, and not all drugs will impact the same aspects. I've only provided responses regarding the financial impact of proposed testing booths/stalls at festivals (as that's seemingly the "big issue" flavour of the month right now, and what's triggering this discussion topic in many places). For the most part, undesired negative impact will mostly come in the form of those who abuse the substances and end up requiring medical/mental treatment (EDIT: this isn't at all in regards to the substances I'm only for decriminalisation of like hard opiates and meth. Their impact reaches well beyond medical). AFAIK the latter would only fall on society/the taxpayer if it were on court orders (this is an assumption). The medical treatment aspect is a hard one - I'm somewhat all for the idea of the user accepting the risks and voiding their public healthcare in the event they f**k themselves up, landing them with the bill if they need treatment. This probably wouldn't work in practice, unfortunately. I highly doubt public health insurance companies will offer a "drug user" level of cover either haha, for many obvious reasons but also because not all drugs are the same.

Unisys, on the Defence desktop support contract, was the biggest mess I've ever had the amusing displeasure of being a part of....though I'm 99% sure it was entirely due to the immediate management structure, or lack thereof. Too many mates in "Team Leader" positions, one of which directly reported to her husband. Workplace domestics between an employee (team leader at that) and her manager were simultaneously hilarious and extremely disconcerting. Mostly hilarious though. So maturity. Many professional. Much better where you are though I'd assume Dan, lol. You're actually driven enough you'd have f**ked off after a week if it were the same

Guys, it's ok now. Windows is now again acknowledging C, V, and H keystrokes. I'm still a little edgy, but I think I'll be ok. Haha but nah that's fair Chris!

I've repeated myself a million times in this thread. Many more in others elsewhere. f**k I've probably replied to myself somewhere too...bloody drugs messing with my head!