busboy

Jaycar are actually just an electronic bits shop the way Dick Smith used to be before it became all consumer stuff. So, no, not much use there I'm afraid. Brace yourself for the repair quotes, the few I have had over the years have been more than the car was worth! VDO do an electronic generic speedo for $300, but it needs a hall efect sender (electronic) which would probably have to be retro fitted. Gets messy, I reckon you'd be looking at $500 in parts alone by the time all that was done... Good luck. M

One more thing... if there is no sign of split gearwheel, and it is the electronic sort, then pull out the little stepper motor (tiny white wheel shaped like a miniature spinning top with two REALLY tiny magnets on the back) and give it a really good clean. There's less torque in those things than a Fiat motor, and even the smallest spec of dust can jamb them. Still, I'd be betting on the split gearwheel. (I may sound a little bitter.) M

If it is an electronic VDO model as it is in my R31 '88 skyline donor car then it is almost certainly one of the idler gears splitting in half. They do it when they reach 20 years on just about every European car I can think of. My mechanic has a pile of VDO clusters that is, quiet seriously, 6 feet high, all with the same busted gearwheel. I've rebuilt our Volvo cluster three times now using clusters from UPullit, and it makes no difference how many kms the odometer had done in the original donor car, they all die at 20 years of age, it's a time based thing. I will be casting my own gears from aluminium some time this year when I have finished the other projects, as I really miss the odometer for my service intervals. Pulling the cluster apart is pretty easy, as is getting to the odometer, just finding a replacement gear wheel is the hard bit. If you have to pull the speedo needle off (you do with the Volvo 740), take a REALLY good look at where it is resting before you pull it off, or better still, take a photo. Getting them back in the right spot is a pain. Actually, I have been meaning to have a look at some of the kits in Jaycar, it's a very long shot but they stock these gearwheel kits with lots of different sizes. It would have to have exactly the right number of teeth (about 20 on the volvo from memory), but if it does, every 20 year old BMW, Merc, Peugeot and Volvo driver would be thrilled.

Well my RB30 transplant into a toyota coaster is nearly done. The basic mechanicals and plumbing have been done, and I'm pretty happy with the results. A few niggles like finding a better spot for the fuel filter and charcoal cannister, plus some neater radiator hoses are on the wish list for now. Now I am at the electricals stage. What I have done is pull the complete wiring loom from the donor 88 Skyline (auto), including the ECU and trans computer. I spent a good day and half teasing out all the wires and I have been left with all of the loom from the ECU to the engine pretty well intact. The loom from the ecu to the fusebox, instrument cluster and ignition switch is very minimal, basically I am HOPING I don't need all the extra stuff connected. So, I used one of the many very good forum pinout diagrams on the ECU to trace the wiring for ECU. The fuel pump is directly connected to pin 108, this seems to be the way with the Nissan, unlike the VL commodore which seems to need a relay. (The fuel pump is the original pump from the skyline, I've just modified my bus fuel tank to take the pump assembly) I've connected constant 12V to the wire that feeds the ECCS green relay which in turn seems to feed 12V into pin 114 on the ECU. I've got the ignition going to pin 34, and the various earths all seem connected. I have cheated in a few areas, and these may be a problem. I have used my original starter motor circuit from the bus, as it was already there and in exactly the right place, so I am not using the starter inhibitor on the auto trans yet (but I will later when everything is going properly, starting an auto in gear is a recipe for trouble.) There seems to be an input on the ECU pin 9 labelled start signal input, and that is currently floating. Now, when I feed power to the ignition pin 34, I get a nice satisfying click from the green ECU relay, and the red and green LEDs light up and stay lit. However, if I crank the engine over, it spins nice and fast but it does not so much as kick, PLUS, at no point does the fuel pump turn on. (It was late and I have not checked if I got a spark or pulse to the injectors either, once I realised the fuel pump was not going, I decided to stop and double check things. So I set the ECU to diagnostic mode and I get three diagnostic codes, 23, 24 and 31, labelled Idle Switch, Neutral Switch and Air Conditioner. Now, I suppose the neutral switch might normally stop the engine starting, (though that would prevent you from push starting the manual and I see even the manual model has the neutral switch in the circuit diagram), but I can not work out if it should be earthed or fed 12V to mimick being in neutral. Also, it seems odd that the fuel pump is not starting (I tested it on direct 12V and runs like a rocket.) Can anyone shed any light on the problem? Should the fuel pump come on or is it waiting for an indication that the engine is turning over? Should both LEDs be lit in non-diagnostic mode. Are any of those error codes a show stopper? Does anyone know an auto sparkie in Adelaide who is familiar with this ECU and does house calls? Thoughts really appreciated. Matthew

Hello, help needed please. The conversion of my Toyota Coaster to RB30 power is going well, but I can not find the computer that controls the auto. I have a series II 1988 Skyline for a donor car, and i have the engine and trans out and sitting under the bus. Got the eccu computer and wiring loom out cleanly enough (and remembered to label most of the connections so I have a chance of reconnecting it again) but for the life of me I can not find the computer that controls the auto. According to the Gregory's manual I have, it is under the passenger seat. Well, if they are right is must be the size of a pin, or somebody pinched it. If it was pinched then all I can say is the auto worked pretty well without it! I traced the wiring from the auto into the panel work at the front of the car behind the battery, but i can't see where it goes from there without using an angle grinder to get behind the panel. (A bit rusted on.) Am I missing something here? Is it part of the ECCU or is the computer internal?

Right... sounds like it will best if I see how it goes then.

Hello again, A while back I wrote in to say I was thinking of putting a RB30 motor in a small Toyota bus. I got lots of very good advice, thank you, but it left me with lots more investigation to do. Well, to cut a long story short, I went through just about every engine combination recommended (or possible), but I kept coming back to the RB30. It came down to a two things: (1) the RB30 has a terrific reputation and (2) the diff ratios available to me were just too low for the bigger holden V6s or a Ford straight 6. Finally, after a long trip on the original 2.4 litre a month back it struck me that the RB30 would have HEAPS of power for the job, so I fished around and found a pretty decent 88 model skyline with 200,000km on it, registered and in very driveable condition. Aside from one sticky lifter and a slighty rough shift on the auto, it seems good, and it is in having the auto serviced now just to be sure. Assuming they come back to me and tell me it is ok, I will be fitting the engine and auto in the bus this weekend. But it has occured to me that the shift points on the auto might be a bit out. On the one hand it will be pushing around the equivalent of the old Pajero in weight, with a lot less rolling resistance but more windage, on the other hand it will be doing so with a lower diff ratio, working out at 2600rpm at 100km/h. So can anyone tell me if it is possible to reprogram the auto computer on these? From what I have read it seems that I have a series 2, and I have read that these use the engine management computer to control the auto. I can see how to reprogram the injectors etc in the engine, but I can't see any reference to reprogramming the shift points. Thanks you, Matthew P.S. At the end of the process I will have a very stripped out 88 skyline to dispose of, from the north west peninsula of Adelaide, and it is too good to throw away. I'll be open to offers.

Great advice, thank you.

Wow, that was... er... informative. Still, mostly there seems to be an agreement that they are little poorly on the torque unless they are turbo'd, so I think I'll stick with what I sort of understand, which in this case appears to be a reasonably well built straight 6 that does not eat three dinosaurs every five miles. Mind you, whatever you think of the exhaust note of a rotary, it would be pretty darn suprising coming from an old bus leaving the lights with the duals smoking nicely...

So maybe a manual commodore trans would overcome the main problems with the commodore option? I must say I liked the V6 config as it allowed me to move the C-of-G back a bit further. The bus was designed for a two ton payload on the back axle, and currently it is actually 100kg lighter than when I bought it empty due to removing the seats and doing a VERY lightweight conversion of the interior. Is there a commodore engine that has a particularly good reputation (except the RB30 VL of course!) (Good point about not skimping on cost to the point of silliness too.)

Well, THAT was right out of left field! Nope, I have to admit, I would never have thought of it in a million years.... What's the logic here? Happy to rev at 4200 rpm of course, that would practically idle speed to a rotary.... I don't know much about them for torque etc, time to read a little. Hmmm..... Torque seems a little lower than I'd like (except on the turbo version, where it is insane), but then with those sorts of rev ranges maybe torque is not so important. I have never driven one so I can't really imagine how they'd translate.

Well, THAT was right out of left field! Nope, I have to admit, I would never have thought of it in a million years.... What's the logic here? Happy to rev at 4200 rpm of course, that would practically idle speed to a rotary.... I don't know much about them for torque etc, time to read a little. Hmmm..... Torque seems a little lower than I'd like (except on the turbo version, where it is insane), but then with those sorts of rev ranges maybe torque is not so important. I have never driven one so I can't really imagine how they'd translate.

A recieved a good comment re the RD28 turbo and the cost of getting one right. Yep, for those reading between the lines, this is a price sensitive conversion I am trying for here. I am wise the fact that by compromising on cost I have to give up some aspect of performance, whether it be speed, reliability, economy etc. When I looked at what was most important I realised initial outlay had to be low, (which ruled out diesel), then came economy (hence my fear of Ford motors), then came reliability (the RB30 seems to do well here) and finally, speed ( a Ford motor would be better here). So I guess I am resigned to accepting that this little bus is going to be no road burner. Really, if the current 22R motor and gearbox were not so tired, I think I'd happily up the diff ratio a little and live with the performance. But they are pooped, and an RB30 with auto just has to be a better option. Right...? Two more posts and I can PM!

Not if I can avoid it. Once you add a turbo the whole insurance thing gets tricky. I looked VERY hard at putting a turbo Volvo 740 motor in it (they are a pretty robust motor, I know, mine has 360,000km on it and is still going strong), but the whole parts thing had me worried. Then a bloke at the roads office pointed out the insurance companies would run for miles, so I went back to looking for a good petrol motor. That's when I found the RB30.

Just looked up the specs on the RD28 (non turbo) and they are almost EXACTLY the same as the current petrol Toyota 22R motor. Not sure how a diesel would enjoy running at 4200 rpm for hours on end... could be messy. Interestingly, the turbo version has a slight edge on the RB30 for torque, but only a few percent, so overall I would say the RB30 still feels right.

Oh wow! I had completely forgotten the Cedric! And they were a brilliant car, but oh what a disastrous name... Did the diesel ever make it to Oz? I certainly never saw one... Diesel is interesting. I started out thinking diesel, but the funny thing was, I had to drive about 100,000km to break even, and that was assuming some pretty conservative cost differences in the conversion. Big upfront cost, but lots of really nice reliable engines to choose from if you have the money. (An Isuzu 3.4 litre turbo was nice, but at around $11K for engine and transmission, I lost interest really quick!)

A big thanks to Grigor for your 3000 RPM suggestion and the calculation method also. I tried to reply but I am too new (not enought posts) to be allowed to PM you back. But I would be keen to hear your thoughts on whether the engine is strong enough for the job also. (5 more posts to go...)

OK, most certainly not the response I was expecting... but really good points. I do own an EF Fairmont Wagon with the funny intake, and it is the most incredible towing vehicle. The engine is very reliable, it pulls like a beast, but it drinks like a fish and steers like a cow. The stuff like the brakes, suspension and steering are pretty crummy, but I suppose they would not be put in the bus... I just feel like the engine would be almost too big, and the fact that it uses more fuel in the wagon than the bus currently uses makes me just a little nervous of what it would cost to run. Also, those engines have a list of issues a mile long. Each on their own is no big deal, lame head gasket, weak valves, crappy radiator, disposable power steering pump.... but they add up. My experience of the commodores is only secondhand conversations, but when we did lots of caravan towing (yes, one of THOSE people) I found that the caravan people all stayed away from them. I am told they would crack heads and the transmissions could not handle the load. If you looked around a caravan park a few years ago, it was either Toyota Land Cruisers or Ford Falcons, as far as the eye could see, but this might have changed, it has been a few years. I have read a lot of good stuff about the RB30, and I FEEL like it would be strong enough. The bus is only 500kg heavier than the patrol, with a much lower rolling resitance and I am unlikely to going much over 90km/h most of the time. I just thought if I got the revs right, it would work. But it seems like you guys have your doubts, and now I am worried. The Ford solution is so logical, but... so terrrifying from a fuel and maintenance perspective...

Nothing specific to the RB30, but heaps of other interesting stuff, thanks for the link. A bit of reading to do.

Hello, I am going to put a Nissan RB30 in an old Toyota Coaster bus. It seems the best engine for the job, and although I have not yet bought one, I assume I will be fitting something from a late 80s Skyline with the 3 litre EFI motor. (They fit my budget, they will fit in the bus, they seem a nice quiet motor and everything I have heard about them is good so far.) The bus is currently helped along by a 2.4 carbie motor (a Toyota R22) and it goes ok, but revs it's pants off at 100km/h (4200rpm). The motor is tired, and the gearbox is pretty ordinary too, so I figured I'd just pull the motor and transmission from the Nissan and fit them as a pair. I checked and I can get the tailshaft modded easily enough, which leaves the diff. There are a heap of ratios to choose from, all the way from the current 6:1 diff (aarrgh!), through to about 3:1 from the diesel model. The bus is not very hard to push (After all, the current tired 2.4 litre can do 110km/h if you wait a bit), probably a little easier to push than the Nissan Patrol that was fitted with the RB30, but certainly a lot more work than the sedan. The top gear ratios from the current five speed manual and the Nissan's 4 speed auto are about the same, so the 3:1 diff would give me 2100rpm at 100km/h, but somehow I suspect that is a little low. So, my question is, what engine revs should I aim for at crusing speed? I'd like the engine to be running freely, not lugging, but I don't want it over revving either. Your thoughts greatly appreciated, Matthew