jogge

hi, yes the wheel rpm in front and rear is always nearly identical.only if you have less grip at one of the wheels it is different. but this usually is corrected by the traction controll. 50:50 is better for race driving, because if you turn in a corner to fast, and the car beginn to slide, it´s easier to get the car in a straight line with more torque at the front wheels. to do a good controlled drift it´s better to have more torque at the rear. but on track drifting is always slower than "normal" cornering. so also 30:70 is a real good choice. what´s better 30:70 or 50:50 depends also on the drivers style to drive and of course on the diff setup of the front and rear axle.

this is the same i think/hope. but until now nobody know´s exact about this...

how do they do that without wearing out their center clutch ? yes for the cossis´also 50:50 is best and fastest on track. a lot of hillclimb and circuit race cossi´s drive that kind of splitting. i also want to do that in the future but now my front diff is the weakest point of the drivetrain.it´s already uprated with qauife case,quaife internals and a steelplate is also fitted to the case to strenghten the case. but it´s still not strong enough. if a want to have the front diff strong enough, i had to build in a 7.5 inch diff with quaife internals. and also i have to change driveshafts for something with prop-bearings.

but what is about to set it permanently to 50:50 ? is it also always sliding then, or is it full pressured on to have full AWD ? the art of construction of the GTR box is nearlly similar to the Cossi 4x4 box. only the cossi-box has a permanent torque split of 33/66 with a visco-couple in it. so i will think about the option to fit a visco-couple to the transfer case of the GTR box which is fix set to 30:70. but this would be only second option. best would be drive it with the active torque split via a electronical controller. next week the man who had studid electronicall pneumatics is back from holiday and i will talk to him what to do. i think best would be to build a controller unit which bases on the wheel speed sensors and g-sensor of the cossi. this should controll a oilpump system in which we will use a gearbox oil pump. this pump is biuld to run continously. and we will also fit a cooler to the system. the only thing is to find a gearbox oil pump which produces enough pressure. but next week i think i can sort that out.

Thx for explaining !!! I will become a more and more clearer picture of the torque splitting system and the gearbox itself ! but do you think it is possible to set the torque splitting fix to 50:50 or 30:70 ? or does i always have to use it in 2WD mode with an controller to do the torque splitting for AWD mode if needed ? how can i identify a R32 or a R33 GTR box ? i mean whats the difference if i look at the boxes ? do i understand right, that it would be best if i order a complete new built up box from PPG, it´s best to order a R32 GTR box. because that means also i will get the "better" torque splitting system !? i want my car always more oversteer, because that suits most my driving style.

it should be also not a big problem to install the wheel speed sensors of the GTR in my car. but i have already wheel speed sensors at all 4 wheels caused by the use of the traction controll. so i think i have to look in the workshop-manuals of a GTR how the sensors work. i mean at which voltage it operate.perhaps it is compatible with my sensors-output. i always wondering again, what kind of special features the GTR has already installed. WOW !!!!

do you think it is possible to set the pressure in the center case manually to a fixed amount of pressure to have always the same torque splitting ? what kind of pressure means what kind of torque splitting ? the Escort Cosworth is fitted also with a G-Sensor and wheelspeed sensors at all four wheels. so i think it should be possibel to get this all in function with the pectel motormanagement. because the ECU is also running Lunchcontroll,Tractioncontroll.....

in my case it´s not a problem of the dog-engagement. all the dogrings and selector forks are always in really good condition.also after 15000km. no problem. but always having problems on the surface of the gears. the guys from quaife calle it "bitings". and this is caused by the long term use of the box. the gears are not built for use for 15000km. it´s only built up for using at trackdays and races. so normally in one saison less than 5000km.

correct...and also the gearbox case has not to take any significant torque.only the gears take it all. in track day and race operation it´s often a problem that the gearbox case become warm. and because of that it loses stability because it´s alloy. so that´s a big problem for all gearboxes but more a problem for helical-gears. caused by the style of construction of the torque handling in the gears and the box itself.

the gtr was homoligatet for group a. perfect !!! it´s the same like with the cossi´s. all the Escort Coworth have installed a lot of real good parts because of the homoligation. the diffs of my car are 3.62 in front and rear. if we change diff ratio, we only change it rear. and the balancing we do in the transfer case at the ratios of the splitting. the system of the Ford MT75 4x4 gearbox is similar to the gtr box. only without the possibility of active torque splitting. and of course not so strong.....

thx for explaining. so it isn´t necessary to use the gtr diffs. because they are NOT active. ok less work for me.......

so now i thought about something depending on the wet cluch system in the case. i understand how it works, because this is pretty simple like every automatic gearbox will work. but for example with the chrysler corvette with automatic gearbox when you are going for quatermile races, you upgrade your wet clutch system, to get all the power through it without breaking. so i think if you want to run the active torque splitting system of an gtr box in a high powered car you also have to upgrade the center clutch !!! because the system is calculated and built for approx 400HP/500NM ?! i think of these numbers, because the V-Spec version of the gtr is around this. but in asia or i guess also in australia the people run much more than 500NM. and they use the cars on track and strip. so how do they do that with the center clutch ?

thx doodoo for all the help. the pics explain much more than the drawing in the manuals. thx. i will look after that special point on weekend, because in the moment i´m full of work..... and for the diffs 4.11 is not so bad. the cossi is in the moment on 3.62. but i will think if i have fitted the gtr box 5th is 0.75 or something. and on the cossibox 5th is 0.82. so i think 4.11 in the diffs will also be perfect for my use. how strong are the diff´s of the skyline ? do i have to use uprated diffs ? what kind of torque controll do the diff´s have ? is it lsd style diff ? the active diff´s of the skyline do work as the system for the center case torque splitting is working ? so it means i have to have also a pump-system on front and rear diff, connected to a controller (attesa?) ?!

it would be perfect to cool the diff´s and the center case. but only do that with thermostat fitted in every system, which allows the oil to warm up quickly. and only if the temp. exceeds 70-80 degress Celius the thermostat open the cooling cycle. so everything would be fine on street and track use. i think the temps. of the oil in the diff´s, gearbox and so on should be between 80-100 degrees celsius. if temps go higer the fluid will become thinner and the system will loose pressure.

the installing of the gearbox is nearly done. sorry but the camera was out of battery at the moment. but i will post pics at the end of the week. but now we thought about to install the front and rear diff from a gtr because it is possible to manage a active torque splitting including the diff´s and gearbox if i install all the sensors and electronic´s from a gtr. this would be fantastic, because it means it will be a complete active torque controlling system for "low" money. the active diffs and controlling what was used in the WRC Escort Cosworth is a really big bag of money to spend to go for it. so i think the choice of the diffs,gearbox and controllers of a gtr would be a good choice for "normal" money. it´s really amazing what kind of potential the technical site of the gtr offers.....

hi, i have fitted a 6 speed straight cut gear dog box before. and there we always have the problem that is called "bitings". it means that the super-heat-threaded area of the flanks of the gears are worn out. that always happens with straight cut boxes. so normally a straight cut box does not longer than approx 10.000km. and also the semi-hellical gears are more stronger than straight cut gears, because the area of contact is bigger. the only beneffits of straight-cut gears ist that they don´t loose so much power than the helical sets.and they are lighter. in my cossi with helical gear set i loose approx 90hp. with straight cut gears it´s "only" approx 80hp. and for example the super big awd box from quaife which the Gabat-Cossi´s use in hillclimb and circuit race is about 70kg. the semi-helical r33 gtr box by ppg is about 95kg. also you have to drive with gearbox-oil-cooling-system if you use straight-cut gears. because it produces much more heat. and i don´t like the big noise of an straight cut box any more. from my house to the hockenheimring is only about 1.5 hours by car. so mostly i go there for testing and driving in my cossi. i don´t use a hanger. so i´m always pissed off on the way back home. of course i will post in some pics when the box is installed........ and i have already asked ppg for sequentiell shifters but they only advise me to look on the aftermarket. they don´t tell me a special brand......

hi, i´m in contact with ppg for a complete R33 box. semi-helical gears with dog engagement. the gears are rated up to 1000hp. i wanna combine it with this shifter: http://www.nengun.com/ikeya-formula/sequential-shifter what do you think about ? i don´t want to spend money to firm´s without perfect quality and good service. i don´t know the brands in the skyline scene, so a little help would be fine.

you don´t have to dissassemble the case. i think on the fugures in the workshop manuals are drawings of all the parts in the box. and i think this will help. i will discuss that system at the weekend with my mechanic.

yes that would be really helpfull to understand all the mechanic in it ? can you please post some pics in here ? thanks but how do all the gtr´s handle it, if there running the quatermile. they do the burnout with RWD and then they switch to 50:50 or ? but in 50:50 does also the center clutch break early or is the clutch then fully presst ? because if it´s right what i read about the wear of the clutch in 30:70 mode it means that it will not hold that power so long ??? but my problem is that i dont´t wanna drive in 50:50 because the front diff is the weakest point in my drivetrain. and also i like the car more oversteer, for doiong a good job at the circuit. hhhhmmmmm..... and another question. how can i identify if a box is a R32 or R33 box. the R33 is the better one because of the failure at the syncro´s at R32´s ?

for the beginning and testing i think i will use a normal electrical oilpump which we also use for kitkar projects. so i think with an pressure switch or pressurte valve i will adjust the pressure for the splitting. but in the moment we are not sure at which pressure we have which kind of splitting ? in the prep. manual i read about the testing for the mechanics if the system is working. and there it should be about 3-5 bar pressure. but does that mean that 3 bar is 100% RWD and 5 bar is 50:50 AWD, or what ? later when everything is fine, i think i will install the complete torque splitting system, with the wheel speed sensors, the g-sensor, and the splitting control box. i also wanna fit that together with the hks torque splitting controller. that one: http://www.rhdjapan.com/hks-kansai-active-...3-15041?nflag=1

here my car on the rollers: the man behind the car: the car is actually about 860HP/920NM 0-100 in 1.8 sec. / Quatermile 9.21 sec. here the car of a friend of me, Hans Peter Laber. he won 5 times the austrian hillclimb championship. the car on the rollers preparing it for the next saison..... another good friend with his hillclimb Cosworth: all cars including mine are built by Andreas Gabat and his Team: http://www.gabat-tuning.at/ all the hillclimb cars are running the strongest available 4x4 Quaife box.it´s sequentiell 6 speed dog engagement. in the moment he is building up an Mitsubishi EVO 8 for Circuit and hillclimb. the car should be at 900HP. we will se what the future will bring..... he has also one customer with the first GTR R35 in Europe.the car do approx 700HP and only mapped and a little soft changes around are done.

to fit the GTR box we have made a plate with the exact fitment-figures of the engine on one side, and the exact fitment-figures of the box on the other side. everything was scanned by laser, so it shout fit perfectly. - the transmission tunel was reworked. and also the clutch system is hydraulic now. - the front prop-shaft of a skyline was shortened 20mm and fitted new joints. - the rear prop shaft is the Cosworth 2WD one which we also shortened and fitted new joints on. - the gearbox bracket is custom made i have no pics of the work in the moment, but i think i can do some shooting later to get pics in here.....

on the dyno - 717,6 HP - 825,3 NM tuning meeting switzerland Hockenheim-Ring boxes engine bay Hockenheim-Ring.i missed the corner towards motodrom and had to go through the gravel on full throttle, to be in front of the second black evo without lights. the evo is running ethanol,Garrett GT35,680HP sachs-curve Nürburgring-Nordschleife.i was to early on full throttle after the karussel. and i hit the bumper... facts: - 2.3l 16V with KKK turbo - engine is long studded with nicasil-wet-liners - special crank,special pistons,longer rods..... compression ratio 7.5:1 - head fully ported and with bigger valves and crazy cams - Pectel T6 engine management system - 3 paddle AP-Racing carbon-clutch - RaceLogic traction-and launchcontroll - until now 6 speed R&D staright cut dog box. but broke three times...... - powershift system. shifting without clutch, only shortly cutting the ignition - Bilstein/Eibach coilovers - complete WRC front with adjustable anti-roll-bar and beams - fuel catch-tank-system with two bosch high pressure motrsport pumps - custom made fuel lines 12mm diameter - 4 x 1000cc bosch injectors - custom made intercooler - 7.5 inch front and rear lsd diff 75% with special setup to suit my driving style - WRC front bumper and rear wing.it is designed by adrian newey in the 1990´s. - WRC cage by Heigo - the car is front-rear on10.5 rims with 265-35-18 yokohama A048 the car is running a 10.56 on the quatermile strip in Bitburg-Germany in 2006. the run was on yokohama AVS sport road tires,without power-shift, and without water-methanol injection. the water-methanol injection is only used for cooling. not to run a more powerfull ignitionmap or more boost. i only wanna keep the acts in range of 35-45 C degrees to get always full power out.

what kind of oil do i have to youse for the system with the pump for the torque splitting ? i think i can use Castrol B373 in the complete box ?! and also in the torque splitting system

thx a lot for your answer. the Escort Cosworth is originaly 4x4. it´s normally 30:70. so i wanna keep that, because the front diff is the weakest point of my drivetrain. only RWD is not possible because i drive the car at Nürburgring-Nordschleife and the Hockenheim-Ring. so it must have 4x4 to transfer all the power to the road. and also it´s really beasty to controll an RWD car with 700HP. i read something in the prep. manual of an R32 as you say, that there is a hydraulic pump that is pumping oil to the center-clutch-mechanism of the gearbox. and i also read that it works between 3-5 bar pressure. so is it correct that a pressure of 0-3 bar is 100% rwd, and a pressure of 5 bar is 50:50 awd. is it ok to get the system on 50:50 and holding that fixed, or does that also mean that the center clutch will break earlier ? and what do you guys think of an genuine GTR R33 box about the power handling ? for the beginning we have installed an used box only to do the installing. and now i wanna drive a few events @ hockenheim and nürburgring, to look if everything is working fine. but we are not sure about the power and torquehandling of such an box ! the car is 1400kg and is running on sticky semi-tires.