Mad-Max

oh wicked i was looking at them to start with but i thought they were only for dizzys lol the more info the better haha i couldnt find out much about them when i looked

so it wont work with a cas sensor and wasted spark setup? a non turbo rb30/25 vct hybrid

oh wow thats good ...do they run ok with a cas? and can they be used with a knock sensor or is aknock sensor a bit obsolete with these?

yea ive seen this units used befor but i have little knowledge about them are they easily tuned and what can be done with them?? how are they tuned?? ahh good yea a map sensor i thought about that didnt think id need to use one tho.... and the megasquirt unit was what i was lookin at ealier --> ( http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=321916315 ). its compatable with knock sensor (which i want to run) and map sensor plus i like the fact i can plug it into a laptop and have a fiddle and since im using a series 2 vct head that would be very handy for controlling it the other one i had a glance at was the silicone chip kitset from JayCar but i thought it might be a bit sketchy any thoughts/ideas much apprieciated guys

thanx very much for that answers it exactly for me .... im just sortin out what options i have .... im currently lookin at another option of a standalone ignition system that can be pre programmed ect and programmed via a hand held/fixed controler either that or a re-programmed eprom. if any one can think of any options i could use keeping in mind i only want it for the ignition and not the fuel ... fuel is only a bonus

and why not???????? id like some one to elaborate on this for me pls .... that doesnt really answer my question, try and think outside the box on this one.... i know the cas tells the ecu where each piston is in the cycle... inturn this signal that is sent to the ecu and lets the ecu know the rpm. and if the rpm of the engine determines the level of timing advance why would it need a afm/tps sensor to advance the timing surely it would have a base timing map it works from? i always thought an afm/tps was more for the fuel side of things and only had a very slightly small impact on the timing i know for a fact that with no afm and tps an rb25 will still idle with only a cas sensor and maintain base timing. trust me ive tryed but what i couldnt do was rev the engine and gauge the timing advance at the time

ok forget about the fuel side of things and forget about the temp/knock sensors for a few mins here. i understand how they effect the timing when they need to basically what im wanting to know is if the stock r32 ecu can work as a stand alone ignition system (only ignition) when only using the cas input to the ecu. will it still advance the timing when rpm's are in play without those sensors (no afm, no tps)

ok guys im looking for an ecu expert (or at least some one who can answer my question) for a bit of help with a project im considering to build. what im wanting to know is how a stock ecu determines the timing advance on a rb20de/25de r32 ecu. what sensors determines this or is it just the cas sensor?

he probably didnt reset his ecu after he put it on so it would have takin a lil while for the ecu to change its settings in my opinion a 2.5 is about as big as you really wanna go. you can go bigger but theres not much point! it will give a nice top end over the 2.25 which is still nice in its own way and will still peform just make sure its done with mandrel bends which arnt much more expensive (that includes on a 2.5" exhaust). and dont be a dick and try and make it as loud as possible, have some respect for others and families (plus less attention from cops)

well im no turbo expert but from what i can see it very much sounds like a fueling issue.... if your gap/spark is fine with no missing id be looking at the fueling system as its sounds like the sards have a bit of a problem with atomisation and 800cc sounds pretty huge to me. have you/the tuner been able to lean this out at all?? could be that the injectors are too big one good way to check the spark is to either unbolt or get another cas and spin it with the plugs out earthed to the engine and have a look for yourself.... this gives you the chance to sort this issue out i know how much of a bastard it can be! id say 1.0 gap or .09 should be fine tho.

start with a couple basic things and see if these help. ive bought cars with the same problem and its always been something simple like this..... try changing the air filter sounds like it could be hunting for air (or remove the air filter to see if that makes a difference) check your spark plugs they could just be dirty or faulty also try some injector clean fuel treatment sometimes that helps and check for vacuum leaks

oh wow that would have been cool would be very interesting to see how it came along

yea it probably is but it worked for me its just as good on gas as it was injected untill the foot goes down and my carb manifold is a stock rb30S manifold ($100) with a $50 webber (which im upgrading as we speek to a 40mm down draft from a 3l v6 capri/granada another $50) if i wanted to make another manifold it would only cost me materials since i have all the gear i need to do pretty much what i want. dont you wish you had a shed like mine?? hmmm i think all up to do it it ows me $300 and i get the tuning done properly for free from a good qualified friend of mine seems to me that you guys in reality only know skylines and havnt really tryed anything that isnt a cookie cutter maybe your to scared to try anything different i dont know oh and we dont have emissions problems or p plates im from nz we can have shit sticking out of our bonnets ect (dumb aussie laws thats where you guys fail tryna do shit to the book) like i said i didnt change it to carb'd to get any performance out of it i did it for shits and giggles so unless youve owned a carbed rb just stfu ay! like i said earlier theres alot that can be done its just a matter of filtering out what you wanna do from everyones advice given maybe my advice isnt good, if you dont think it is then dont reply but im only speeking from experience of what ive done and has worked for me

thanx but if mad082 and turboX-trail wernt so abrasive with there posts i wouldnt have had to say what i said... i thought they'ed be more interested in helping people out rather than trying to tear apart others posts and critisize. obviously they dont comprehend the concept of how to do that or how to give good advice. from a new members point of view there actions makes this whole site seem like a joke since i didnt register to this site to make friends just to help out if i can and to see what others are doin to there cars. oh and btw over here in nz we dont have p-plates so we dont have to worry too much about what can and cant be done to ours cars so godzilla-32 pretty much has free reign on what he can do i dont quite get what you mean there .... basically your only tricking the ecu into thinking its still using a normal amount of gas when its not, so lets say you have a pipe with a tap and that tap opens for 5 secs and closes for 5 secs. if that tap has more pressure behind it its goin to release more liquid everytime that tap opens.its pretty crude but i hope that helps explain it

firstly im not your f**kin BRO secondly all book smarts and no practical ay.... hows your uni goin are you failing or something?? another 19yr old no it all..... you see the thing is i dont think you really no squat. you may have the book smarts and be doin a uni degree in automotive engineering but id really like to know how many n/a engines youve built?? i cant count on both hands and feet how many ive built with good success so lets break this down for you into english 1. my 290* lumpy cam was made specifically to run a carb and runs fine!! so how the f**k would you know if it makes it run worse? ....because the intake valves open so early it breaks vacuum and would f**k with the afm too much so inturn wouldnt run with a factory ecu no matter how hard you try. if i wanted it to run injected with this cam id have to go and spend alot of $$$$ on a link ecu or simmaller and many hours of tuning on a dyno ect so its not even worth it youd be better off just getting another tryed and tru good cam and be happy with that. oh and compared to the 2x other cams ive used (stock, the bros custom injected cam) on the carb its the f**kin ducks nutts!! 2. do i really need to say it?? ive drivin plenty of turbos mate you honestly have no idea what ive driven/owned and personally cant wait to rape the shit out of my mates 402 turbo eh holden when hes finished it (comming very soon), so stick with your moms modded xtrail 3. yes ive f**kin heard of them they could also be used but how much would you end up spending on one? series 2 vct heads are cheap thats half the reason i said it so what are you a f**kin moron this guys not gonna spend mega bucks on a gtr head, im just sayin he shouldnt f**k with the stock r32 small port shitters if hes thinkin of modding the head 4. it wont make a diff till youve opened up (removed restrictions) on the engine.... why else have there been other n/a rb's that have used em or a second throttle body for that matter. 5. blah blah blah ... thats why you go see a tuner to finish it off 6. bullshit.... yea it maybe crude but it works and doesnt need to be permanent! ... yea i know what injector pulse width is 7. lighter cams if you wanna be technical it should have been cam gears and that helps with response you should know this 8. oh yes it does and you should know this if your doin a degree.... a 350cfm holley on a v8 is ok for cruising and economy but good luck being able to rev that sucker with out leaning it out up top! put a 750cfm holley or simmaller on the same engine and hey presto now you can rev the beast right out!! heres some simple maths for you which youve probably covered at uni plus this is just a guide to work out how much cfm an engine needs for selecting a carb... http://www.ehow.com/how_5488366_choose-carburetor.html and wtf are you stupid or some fin?? rev limiter speeks for its self! omg i dont even know where to start with this one. ohhh im gonna remove my rev limit now i can rev 10k rpm, WRONG sure you can in theory rev over what was once the "rev limit" but valve springs with help stop valve bouncing and improve harmonics in the top end on the head only. obviously you will still need to do more work to stop wear and tear to improve the engines life span. restrict your airflow and i doubt youll even get be able to get decent revs. maybe the bigger throttle body will help to achieve higher rpm dont you think? but in reality 7.5k rpm max is fine for the rb this guy wants 9. i was only using cfm rates and carbs as an example...... oh and like i said dont knock it till youve tryed it. i know its old technology im not stupid and i did it for a laugh but personally i like the benifits i got out of it so untill youve done it how would you even know the difference on an rb engine? and why on earth would people rip the injection of 4ages and replace it with twin sidedrafts if it was that bad?? when it was injected sure it was a bit better but it really comes down to how you drive it. injected is much better for f**kwits that have just got there liscence (like you id say) but the skill involved with driving it now means being in the right revv range, clutch kicking more often an shit ect ect blah blah blah (do i really need to go on?) and its quite funny that the stock carb'd r31's from south africa produce more power standard than a stock rb30e (if you bother to look up the stats). so unless youve got some thing decent to say to help this guy/others out i dont really care what you have to say, stick with driving your mum's xtrail and next time read between the lines and dont try point out useless bullshit.... heck maybe go and get some practical skills and try somefin different. cookie cutters are old news and every one with a bit of knowledge should know how to do them, go an try something different!! i was gonna save this for my 350 chev sunbird but i could go ahead an use one side of my suck through setup, 650cfm demon carb and adapter for the sc14 charger thats in the shed and slap that puppy on my rb30 just to see how it goes for shits an giggles, which id say would perform nicely and none of you f**kers have ever done that or even atempted to do anything of the sort....so next time befor you decide to pick out bullshit and state half assed logic just think to your self "maybe this guys tryed a few things i havnt, how did he do it, and what was it like??"... you never no you might even learn something from it

ahhh hahahahaha just another critic none of mine id consider to be high powered rb's. they were worked as much as i wanted to do to them but lets face it if i was chasing better numbers i would have gone to a turbo along time ago and probably triple side drafts on my latest build or put these engines in a bloody s13/14.... all my builds i did as some thing different and you do make a good point but every one has a mate thats done.?.?.?.. stock rb25's/rb30's beat a stock rb20det's but lets face it a simple boost tap can make all the difference. ive seen gti-r pulsars with a $12 tap burn off v8 holdens/fords but that was at about 17lb boost (same with starlet glanzers). your mate must have spent alot of money to get it to do that and i cant see my self wasting 1000's on an n/a build. all the mods i mentioned help to open up the rb30/25's with stock internals/heads but youve gotta remember i only spent $1000 on my 25, $1000 on my 30e, and the new one ows me $600. they have all been street legal ricers but you must remember theres only so much you can get from a n/a application. on the carb'd beast i could have gone with triple side drafts but what a waste that would have been im quite happy with what i got out of a $50 falcon webber, $50 vacuum advance dizzy and $100 stock carb manifold besides what would you rather do, spend thousands on doin a complete intake/comp rebuild (the list goes on) or just $10-15 per jet?? toyota k series engines max out at about 145 hp with quite a bit of work done to them and cost thousands to get them above 150hp but who wants to do that. i mean christ my old boss's worked up mini did 18's!! and that had very exstensive head work done like a said the chips thing has been an gone im not here to argue about it just offering some decent advice for a cheap build or i can see this guy spending thousands and gettin bugger all gains from it i agree with alot of what you guys are sayin but at the end of the day im only posting what ive done to help out this poor lost soul. 10kw increase is a sweet amount for an n/a build and youd probably get just that from doin headers/exhaust and intake mods the fuel pressure reg isnt neccesarily there to up the fuel its only there to adjust fuel whether its dropping the psi or raising it, plus i always did this with the help of a lambda gauge, vacuum gauge and timing light ive heard of that r31 (i think) and i can understand why it revs like it does but i think he'd be pretty hard pressed to get 8k rpm from a single throttle body and his low down power must have really been shit, so definatly a pig to drive.... wasnt it 150rwkw beast?? (probably more correct me if im wrong)

not trying to be rude mate but i laughed pretty hard when i read that i honestly had to lay down my sides hurt so much. i maybe new to this site but i think you should stop trying to disect/critisize everything people say. (even tho it was f**kin funny) "turbo x-trail" your on the right track and your pretty damn correct with what you say would make a nice street n/a rb25de, and in reality i wouldnt do much more than that if i was gonna go to a turbo in the future. this guy is a mechanic in training and asking for some advice so befor you type your next comment critisizing what im about to say (which im pretty sure this post will be pulled apart and disected for flaws by most of SAU to critisize) just remember im offering some advice and letting this guy and the rest of you in on information i found out the hard way (which i doubt many of you have really tryed). im on my 3rd tuned up n/a rb engine and looking at doin a 4th/5th one so i can only tell you what worked well for me with out touching the bottom end or doin too much to the head so below is what i have done in the past. its kinda long but i added some tips/tricks for a decent n/a build, what i personally have done for tuning plus a few little facts about air intake cfm rates and there affects (i had to use this for deciding what carb to use) first things first to clear a few things up i wasnt goin to post any of this info about what ive done ect ect and i only said that about the chip since its a mod that alot of people do but personally ive never used one and im not gonna get into an argument over whos right and wrong (and i dont really give a shit about them) second of all i will agree that clutch engagement with a 12lb flywheel is a bit ruff but if your a good driver its easy to deal with. you are spot on about underdrive pulleys, and big exhausts infact you seem to be quite onto it. cams will decrease your drivabilty but not really that much since there not that much bigger than standard and no where near as lumpy/wild as what im currently running also i absolutely hate those damn fans that hang off the water pumps .... ive lost 2x r31 radiators due to them and one in my ceffy (which cooked it), lets just say i dont trust them and its a personal preference of mine (to keep this short) oh and one thing i wouldnt worry about is changing the ecu untill a tuner tells you to or you turbo it!! my first nissan n/a was a series2 rb25de (with vct) in a ceffy, it was a 20det eater and blew the socks of most small turbo cars. it ran a 12lb flywheel, headers, 2.5 mandrel exhaust, cold airbox (with good piping), electric fan, wasted spark mod, and an after market fuel pressure reg. it wasnt cammed and went bloody well. the next one i did was a rb30e in an r31, again all i ran was 12lb flywheel, headers, 2.5 mandrel exhaust, cold airbox, electric fan, an after market fuel pressure reg, xf falcon throttle body, a mild cam and redtop rb20det injectors. it went wicked but to be honest it wouldnt keep up with what ive done to it now how ever it was very very peppy and i did get used to it. now i run the same rb30e i just mentioned (with all the mods above) and i run probably one of the most maxed cam shafts you can get for an rb30e. its a custom 290* lumpy cam (i think its the most wild regrind in nz but im probably wrong) and cannot be run on an injected engine so yes i did throw out all the injection side of things plus the ecu and wiring and replaced it with a bloody carb. all it needs is re-jetting and a good tune up (since i put the cam in it 3 months ago) but it still goes like a raped goat with the tune it has and is much faster/responsive than it was befor only over 3500rpm tho... with the carb its got it has a lazy bottom end below 3500rpm so it is still good for cruising and good on gas (which is a bonus over how it ran injected) but when it gets to 3500rpm and the foot goes down the mechanical secondaries kick in and it sets you back in your seat, kinda like a turbo once it spools up my next project im lookin at is a rb25/30 hybrid and probably end up using a 4 barrel holley. ill use my rb30 bottom end. ill most probably jam on most of the gear i have laying around from previose builds and have it injected befor i goto the holley (and befor any one says anything, i dont wanna hear any critisism from any one about carbs on rb's till i hear from some one thats done it!!) ok so i know this is turning into a long story now but if your seriosly lookin at doin a rb25de n/a my biggest suggestion is get a series2 vct head, mod it like you would if you were putting it on an rb30 bottom end (basically removing vct), have it skimmed (not hard out just enuff) and run a good set of non vct cams with the mods already explained above. also id go with a slightly larger throttle body for better air flow (either xf falcon or ka24 i dont think you would wanna go much bigger) the only reason i say use a series2 vct head is the fact that the porting is huge compared to whats in the r32 rb25de heads and will run any dohc rb cams (good to know if you want to get some cams reground or use some after market series 1 cams). if you wanna be a pro and do the tuning your self the ecu is a great piece of technology and there are tricks around tuning it untill you can have it dyno'd and chipped (which i recommend doin last)....use the original injectors you wont need to go any bigger with a decent fuel pressure reg. throw away the exhaust sensor it will cause nothing but problems for tuning with a fuel pressure reg, and replace it with a good lambda gauge (get a bloody decent one tho no cheap Ripco deals!!). this will help you to trick the ecu since theres no sensors after the tps and will allow you to adjust the fuel with the fuel pressure reg to get it right. you can also install a vacuum gauge which can be a really huge help if you know how to use it. since the only 2 things you can really do is control the fuel and timing, adjust your fuel till its right and and advance the timing for 98 (probably 18-22* advanced). if your not confident about this ask your boss for help or see a good tuner and ask him for his advice about this but thats how i did mine with out having it chipped and is really one of the best ways to do it in your shed befor seeing a tuner just try and remember these tips when you do anything on an n/a if you want to get as much power as you can. the faster you can get rid of the fumes the faster you can cram more in the cylinders. lighten your drive train wether its lighter flywheel, lighter cams, some alloys or light weight race rims (chromies are too heavy and will rape your power) and lastly remove un-necessary lag on your belts/crank (air con and that gay radiator munching thermo fan which is probably fine for big power engines but on an n/a engine you want as much power as you can get dont you?? even if its 1kw it all adds up in the end) and lastly i know with carbs the bigger cfm you go the shittyer the bottom end power will be but the better and higher revving the top end becomes. for instance i use a 300cfm webber carb (which is good for a rb25/30) if i went to the next size up (350cfm) id probably gain 500 more rpm but i would suffer down low. if i went to a 500cfm holley or simmaller id most probably need better valve springs and gain another 1000rpm. this principle will probably apply to injected aswell so you will most probably have a crap bottom end if you use a bigger throttle body and a nice peppy powerfull top end. so my last piece of advice is think about how you want it to run and filter out what you think you wont need but id say you dont care too much about drivability and just want it to go like a rocket. the one good thing about injected is you wont notice the bottom end power flaws as much compared to if you were runnin a carb

there radiator munchers oh and nothin wrong wiff chips if you get em from the right person just gotta make sure its from a trusted tuner ..... as for cams a mild cam is nice to use, i run a 290* lump cam on a rb30e and it doesnt f**k wiff drivabilty that much

oh so tru .... you really can do alot. heres a start -electric fan (and throw away that horible standard one that hangs off the water pump) -headers, -fuel pressure reg, -cams are cheapish, -up your compression -wasted spark -simple chip off trademe -cold air box then maybe -lighten pullys/cam gears/flywheel -underdrive pullys -larger throttle body -and a slightly better chip -better valve springs and to go all out (i doubt youll need to go this far but keep some of the ideas in mind like the vct head) -wild mad assed cams -lightened crank -link ecu -big port vct head (get rid of the vct tho! this will save you a port and polish if you dont want to spend the money) -electric water pump -front facing intake phlenm -port and polish ive probably forgotten a few things that can be done engine wise but i doubt youll need to go as far as forged internals on an n/a engine and also for that engine dont change the injectors they will/should be fine for n/a application at the end of the day i wouldnt do half this stuff if i was goin to put a turbo on it so i think you need to sit down and think about what you want to put into it and what you want out of it or the whole exercise will end up burning a nice neat hole in your pocket