whatsisname

That should read 7.01 @ 209

Ha-ha. It was the best I could come up with at the time. The plug was sitting on the desk... I thought 'yeah most people have a rough idea of the size of a NGK plug box'. A mate that is pretty handy at building modified turbocharged engines had a look at the turbine and noted they've reduced the material in the webbing between the blades and moved the bulk of the blade towards the centre in an effort to reduce rotational mass.

All three, at least in comparison to the Gen 1 GTX3582. Blade pitch and profile has changed, especially the leading and trailing edge, and 9 blade vs 10 of the Gen 1 (correct me if I'm wrong) The blades are noticeably thinner at the blade root. I'm far from an expert (my background is more jet engine based) but it appears the Garrett /Honeywell R&D focused on reducing mass to improve or maintain spool whilst altering the blade profile to achieve the claimed additional flow.

Noticeable difference in turbine blade and wheel design.

Comp housing is about to head off for polishing (GARRETT logo will remain [but polished] as a feature) and the ex housing for ceramic coating. I'm a little bit excited with my new toy ?

Yep agree with you on all counts mate ?? Your calculations match what I come with each time I've run the numbers on the GTX3584RS and the others you listed. Garrett actually quote between 9.5 & 10.5 hp per lbs/min. But I have wondered if that's a conservative estimate with the newer generation options. It will be interesting to see how the 1.21 housing goes power vs response on a 3-4L six. Won't have to wait long as there's a couple of local 2JZ builds coming online reasonable soon. In other news...

It's all in the wording, '...1000hp capable'. They haven't stated it will produce 1000hp, just that it's capable of 1000hp... on the right dyno with enough capacity, rpm, nitrous etc... ha-ha

A pair of PT6870s is 2200hp (engine) territory.

There is no doubt they've used a solid base to trial the twin 84RS kit. It seems almost impossible to make a hard and fast direct comparison... so many variables in play. Look at the peak torque difference between the two examples. The 4.1L engine makes more than 40wtq more than the 4.4L despite giving up 300cc, 3psi, smaller housings, and a smaller and earlier generation specification turbocharger from the same manufacturer. Unless the extra 5% ethanol content is a total game changer (4.1L E90 vs. 4.4L E85) the torque figures seem arse about! Perhaps the modifications listed against each car is the key to the surprising peak torque difference - assuming the lists cover all the significant changes. The 4.1L car has a 4" exhaust and ETS intercooler vs. ??? of the 4.4L car.

Well there you go, I had no idea Borg Warner were in the process of updating compressor housings throughout their EFR range... aesthetic 'issue' sorted. I'm sure the XR range will improve to the point they become a viable option. Yes I noticed their intro video the other day. Full credit to AMS, it's not often someone tests a full range of turbochargers using the same baseline/test vehicle. I'm looking forward to seeing the results as they roll them out. Just rewinding back to our earlier discussion over the Topspeed ETS kitted R35, I thought I'd found a dyno comparison with a twin PTE6466 equipped R35 run on the same dyno. Alas it was English Racing's Dynojet. Still found it interesting to note the 6466 0.82 car produced 1572whp and 1179wtq at 44.6psi vs. GTX3584RS 1.21 1649whp and 1150wtq at 43psi Further to the above, Micheal from ETS has stated twin 6466 running on pump fuel on their dyno equals 1100whp at 25-26psi... vs. GTX3584RS 1140ish at 27psi (HTA3586 1000whp at 25psi) Obviously there are numerous variables at play when trying to compare the two set-ups... but interesting data none the less. Should have my hands on my new 'toy' later today or tomorrow.

As far as COP solutions go the price certainly is - in comparison to LS2.

Has anyone tried Splitfires or good OEM coils with a Okada Projects (or IP) Plasma Booster?

I am aware of reports of a number of Precision units (across a range of models) suffering oil smoke issues. jet_R31 (Daz) mentioned a few earlier in this thread, including at least one that happened to a mate of his after very little use - might have been right from start. I also found a surprising number of owners reporting the same issues via online sources. Daz said they appear to be more susceptible to oil filtration problems. It isn’t so much an issue with the components but rather the QC during assembly. Of course it’s nothing that can’t be rectified with a strip and rebuild locally. However I feel a little uneasy paying upwards of $3.2k for a new unit (more than I paid for my 3584RS) and then spending more once it arrives to ensure it doesn’t end up doubling as an oil smoke generator… ha-ha. I certainly considered both the EFR 8374 and 9180. Cost and size limitations (without paying for a new manifold to relocate the turbo) came into play. And last but not least, and I know it’s going to sound absolutely ridiculous, a small percentage of my decision came down to aesthetics – they’re not particularly handsome. I like shiny looking ‘stuff’ – see engine bay photo. Anything brand new and current generation technology from FP means going to their XR range and I’d prefer to wait until they’ve got the bugs ironed out of their new billet core before committing funds. In a perfect world the new turbo would arrive and all hands on deck to get it fitted and up and running. Back to reality, it will probably take a few weeks at least. I’m getting the comp housing polished and turbine housing ceramic coated so that will probably take a week or so. I promise to provide plenty of photos in all its glory.

There is one area that springs to mind when comparing the relatively merits of the GTX3584RS vs. PTE6466, likelihood of oil smoke from a brand new unit or after a short amount of mileage ha-ha. But in all seriousness, I am really looking forward to putting the theory aside and seeing exactly how it performs in my specific application. I can’t remember if I’ve got a 17 or 21psi spring set-up in my TS Pro-gate 48 WG. I need to put some effort into my boost control set-up. I must say mate, it’s been a very different experience to my last turbo purchase. Last time I had solid feedback right from the beginning from both jet_R31 (Darren) and yourself – and others. The FP HTA GT3586R had runs on the board and was a known quantity. The GTX3584RS is uncharted territory and for whatever reason (stubbornness ha-ha) I’ve forged ahead despite wise words of advice from the exact same people I listened to last time… people that know what they’re talking about. One thing is for sure, I know significantly more about turbochargers than I did 4 years ago. I rev the motor to a maximum of 7600rpm.

TopSpeed's R35 produced that 1649whp figure on 43psi - the maximum boost they could get out of them. I don't believe Garrett's 1000hp rating for one second, not unless they've somehow managed to squeeze 11hp per lbs/min of compressor flow and the RS turbine wheel is a truly magical bit of kit. The TopSpeed R35 dyno result is further proof. Even with the big 1.21 exhaust housings, maximum boost (well beyond peak efficiency) they 'only' managed 1649whp and roughly 120whp more than a previous set-up running turbochargers rated at 75lbs/min / ~750hp. I think high 800-900hp is a more realistic rating for the GTX3584RS I have little doubt they can get more power out of Hoonicorn if they wind the boost up beyond 21psi. If we are to believe the compressor map they produce their best at about 24psi. My intention is to run as high as 35psi (3.38 PR) in the mid-range and then drop to 30-32psi (3.0-3.2) up top. Based on the compressor map it 'should' still produce approximately 86-87lbs/min at 3-3.2 PR. More than enough to eclipse the best my HTA GT3586R could provide. I accept the inevitable drop in spool, which should be 500-1000rpm. The GTX3584RS has a 67mm/84mm compressor wheel vs. 62/86 of the 3586. 0.72 vs 0.70 comp cover. Exactly the same size turbine wheel but improved aero aimed at increased flow and increased horsepower. 1.01 v-band vs 0.85 T3. My GTX3584RS 1.01 should arrive from Sydney this week. It will be very interesting to see the two graphs overlaid. Hopefully I won't have to wait long to find out.

I've also read recently the Ken Block Hoonicorn 1400hp figure is produced at 21psi and is 'very conservative'.

I was basically pointing out the set-up is a ETS twin GTX3584RS 1.21 kit, not that it's their car. Lost in translation. They used a Dynojet, which do tend to read higher than the popular Mustang dyno. The GTX3584RS 1.21 kit made just shy of 120whp more than the Gen 1 GTX3582 .82 A twin PTE6870 set-up probably should produce over 2000whp considering the Gen 2 is rated to 1100hp. Interesting to note one opinion on the forum thread basically claiming the hot side isn't the issue but the compressor is the issue!

ETS hold the R35 drag ET world record (7.09 @ 209). Hopefully the GTX3584RS car runs some numbers at the drag strip to back up the dyno figure

ETS R35 GT-R twin GTX3584RS 1.21 ex housing kit just made 1649whp on E85 https://www.facebook.com/ExtremeTurbo/

I noticed that earlier today. But if memory serves me correctly, they thought Andrew had fitted a GTX3584RS. Obviously it's a GTW3884R.

I appreciate your input and know you have the best of intentions. I might try contacting them in the new year. Interesting to see what kind of response I get. It's only a matter of time till results start popping up. Looking forward to seeing what it is capable of, good or bad.

Yes mate, your neck of the woods as in NZ based. Here is the thread where the info originated, interesting read: http://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/turbo-comparison-includes-new-2015-turbos-see-post-one-869614/page4/ Mixed opinions from the people contributing. Thank you for explaining it in basic terms. I didn't think it was. It is all a bit of an unknown at this stage. Conventional theory suggests cold and hot side are poorly matched, which "should" result in poor response and sub-optimal top end horsepower. It's the worst of both worlds. All this comes on the back of Honeywell and Garrett boasting about 2 years of aerospace R&D and Honeywell stating it is their biggest development in Garrett turbochargers in the last decade! Hmm... not sure what to think. They obviously went to the effort of "designing" a new turbine wheel for the GTX3584RS, so why didn't they simply increase the wheel size so it matched the 67mm-84mm compressor? Makes no sense to me at all. Is it all PR and marketing bullshit to try and gain ground on the likes of Borg Warner, Precision, and all the smaller players? Whip up a few new billet comp wheels for the majority of the range. Up the HP ratings. Job done. Flood social media with PR spin and sponsor a bunch of high profile players in the scene (Ken Block etc.) and a few local guys here and there. And then add the cherry on top with their new GTX3584RS golden child... whack on a new 'magical' turbine wheel and ramp up the PR spin. Makes me want to e-mail TurbobyGarrett and ask them the hard questions. Doubt they'd give a straight answer... and the reply would probably come from a PR rep anyway. Am I starting to sound a bit cynical? Ha-ha. I am hearing you regarding the alternative options (BW aside - EFR range in particular) As far as the Xona Rotor issue goes; just recently I stumbled across a couple of threads on the US based GTR forums where people have dropped warnings about failures and to avoid going in that direction. Where there is smoke there is usually fire. I have absolutely no doubt the technology and performance is there, much like PT, but until reliability is squared away it's hard to commit. Turbocharger upgrade options... I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Look I would certainly consider a current generation PT6466, if I had confidence in its long term reliability. I don't. Far too many failures or oil leaks for my liking - multiple sources. I've also considered a XONA Rotor XR8267, even a XR9567. Reliability is the main cause for concern. There have been failures - info is hard to come by but it is out there. Can you give me a rough explanation on the relationship between Maximum Efficiency percentage and the overall turbine map? Is the 8% increase in efficiency of the RS turbine when compared to the older GT35 reflected in the turbine plot line? I can't seem to find any information that details the significance of this percentage and how it applies to the Garrett turbine map as a whole. Obviously there is corrected mass flow, how much the turbine and housing will flow for a given pressure ratio, but where does the max efficiency percentage factor in the equation? Aerodynamics is not one of my strong points. Found this opinion piece from someone in your neck of the woods, Lith. Not you is it? That would be funny! 'Just noticed max efficiency of the new rs wheel is 78% vs 70 for the old . According to my mickey mouse comparison on matchbot, this would put the GTX3584RS 68mm wheel with a 1.21 AR housing at about the same backpressure as a normal 74mm wheel in a 1.45 housing. Could be merit in this new design as the spoolup has to be better than a normal 74mm wheel. Spool is relative to wheel size as well as AR. A 68mm in a 1.21 is going to spool up better than a 74mm in a 1.21 (not sure I agree with this if all else remains constant other than wheel size). Which I think is what Garrett is trying to achieve with the RS wheel. Less flow, but the same backpressure and better spool than a larger wheel in the same sized housing. ' Thoughts?

Found another GTW3884R result XR6T on E85 620kW at 26psi https://m.facebook.com/TorquenTune/ Scroll down for a bit to find the dyno sheet and video of run

Yep makes sense. Ha-ha... I was just setting a 'very low' baseline of what's acceptable lag. Good to know I'm not on my own with that one. Yeah fair call. Adzy (ex-BW) gave me a run down on the power delivery of the BMW powered Benetton F1 car during the Adelaide Motorsport Festival. Boost starts building at about 6000-7000, full boost by 8000 till 13000RPM. 1-2 secs after WOT till it responds! Gerhard Berger is quoted as saying the driver had to go WOT at or before corner apex to get full throttle after straightening up. Get it wrong by 5-10 metres and around she went (spin). .