TheKeeper

Here's some video of an RB26 with a pair of 62/58's on the dyno. It has 272º HKS cams, +1mm valves and some mild head porting. It's on E85 on a dynojet dyno. You can get an idea of spool up by freezing the dyno graph. Figured any info is better than none.

Yup. It's a set up that has to be driven to be appreciated. Hell and back? I vaguely remember that. Wink wink.

That is a 4th gear pull and the vacuum line was not connected to the dyno as it was being monitored on the laptop. Full boost on the lower boost (21psi) run was 4,500 and 5,200RPM on the high boost (28psi) run. Just to clear some things up about the current twin kit. It will fit the R32 thru R34 chassis as long as the R34 power steering pump is fitted. It works with most aftermarket downpipes when you purchase the Full Race O2 housings. The "Y Pipe" for the hot side of the intercooler can now be purchased from Full Race as well. If there is enough of a demand the intake tubes will be made as well for a turn key kit. Trying not to "sell" here, just pointing out the facts that seem to be misrepresented quite often. One big advantage that hasn't been mentioned is the lack of "shuffle" with this kit. We have tested a few of these kits, there have been several installed as well and each person seems to be having the same results. Maybe Bri73y can attest to that, we haven't spoken about it, but my guess is he's finding similar results. It's hard to quantify on the dyno what this kit does under the curve on the road and track. They simply work.

Hey Gents... Here is the dyno graph on the twin 6258's we are working on that John mentioned. We had to cut the dyno session short after the 28psi pull because we heard a noise coming from the CAS area and decided to investigate before another run. It's on an RB26, 280º HKS Cams and port work (standard sized valves), E85. (76% Ethanol content)

Understood, I want to make sure. You're only asking each turbo to handle 1.4 liters at 30psi. It should be a no brainer. How many full turns of pre-load do you have on the actuator nut?

Shoot me an email with the part number on the side of the actuator, they should hold 30psi no problem if they are the high boost actuators.

Hey John, looks promising. What psi was that dyno pull? I can't tell by the graph, and I would very much expect you to see 20psi before 4,000 rpm, especially with those cams and displacement. -Brett

Fair enough. I don't make it a habit to speak with the end user on a lot of things when there is a shop involved, I'm sure you understand that. I didn't get involved until the first failure, and truth be told we were hesitant to ship turbo ONE to AU in the first batch we had come in. It's just too far away for us to be able to step in and help. New manifolds, new turbo, new fitment, etc. But your situation was brought to us and we thought it was a perfect platform to get into circulation right away. (we have had nothing but stellar results on robustness with BW up to that point) BW never had the intention to send a credit to GCG, and again you have not been in the loop on that, but it's easily rectified and explained. Please shoot me an email: brett AT full-race.com and I'll explain that one and anything else that isn't necessarily public. I don't mind open forum discussion, but some things are best handled one on one. Like I said, I think the 6258's are a perfect match for your motor in my opinion. I'll be sure to get you a fresh set of manifolds after we build them to fit the R32 chassis. (I'll coat them before we ship them) It was probably not a fight "worth" fighting for the $$, but I think you'll find the performance very rewarding. There's no way to convince the naysayers these turbos will not continue to fly apart, it's just going to take time and more and more positive results. We'll just have to wait that out. Seems to have been some lack of communication from Full Race (me) and you by the time it got to you. Again...maybe a lesson learned for both of us.

Personally, I think the 6258's were made for the RB, unfortunately they didn't stick around long enough on your car to prove it. Had they not failed and the manifolds fit the R32 perfectly I honestly think you would be singing the praises, buuuut...that went a little "off track".

I have done some big time racing, but I think I'm too fat for my suit. I stated it earlier, the shafts have never been the issue. The wheels were the issue, and the vendor that was manufacturing them was not following the strict parameters BorgWarner had in place. The shaft breaking was the result of wheel failures. None of this "helps" anything, but the issue has been rectified. We're pushing the new turbo wheels to 30psi daily, and thus far have not had a failure. BorgWarner is confident they have found a manufacture willing and able to produce them to exact specs, unfortunately they will trickle out of the plant, not pour.

John, Maybe you've been left out of the circle on a lot of this, and from your position it looks like BW has shit on you. That's not the case, and I have personally done more to help your situation than I can recall in recent past. I think there have been a lot of things that were not passed on to you about situations as they arose. Simply...You have a shop that wants to get paid for doing work, and you have a manufacture supplying them with what they need to get that job down. In the end, sometimes the end user can be left holding the bag. I have done what I can to keep that from happening, but there is only so much I or Full Race can do. I just found your timing nothing but vengeful. We recently convinced BW to ship two free turbos for your trouble (it was what BW was currently able to supply), and soon as you get those free turbos you start posting up like a man on a mission. That's fine, I just found it very interesting you wait until you feel you have got all that is coming your way, and out of nowhere start going off. Your post was somewhat factual, I'll give you that. Like I stated originally.. maybe you were left out of the circle on a lot of the behind the scenes work. Regardless, the one thing I have never been accused of (until now) is not being willing to help. I'm very fair, but your situation is a tough one for everybody involved. I don't expect an apology, why would I? As the saying goes, "you get more flies with honey than vinegar" and the first post you post directed at BW or FR was nothing but vinegar. Not sure what kind of response you were looking for, but I feel you've gone about it the wrong way. Flame away gents, you don't have all the facts and at this point probably never will. Anything posted on my end will most likely be twisted and misconstrued. It's the nature of the internet and forums. There were more haters in this thread since it's inception than people backing the idea of a new turbo from BW. Obviously since the failures that number hasn't decreased. John... we told you we would make it right on the manifolds. We can work off what your current shop has had to do, or you can wait until we have a chance to fit some to the appropriate chassis. I cannot tell BW what to do, but they are willing to help to what extent they can. Reimbursing for labor is not on the agenda, it never has been. I don't know any company in the aftermarket business that does that, but I believe that was their intention when the sent the two free turbos. We all knew your situation was upsetting, but solving it was unchartered territory. And as of now, it remains there.

John.. since you have the pitch forks and the torches out I'm not going to bother with entire timeline on the behind the scenes work. I will let you know I was your biggest asset/fan over here in the states, and I have been (until your post) working with BorgWarner to make things right, and as justifiable as possible for you. When we sent the second set of turbos we decided we would ship another set (4 and 5) on our dime with them just in case you had another failure (by that time we had seen 2 other failures on other cars). We wanted to make sure you could compete. We told you (or your shop), "here are two extras...we don't know how these are going to hold up." Originally we told your installers or whomever purchased the manifolds from us we had only test fit them in an R34. Had you decided to jump ship at that point nobody would have been upset, since we had not had a chance to put them in an R32/33 it would have been understandable. Since you decided to forge ahead with making them fit, we felt obligated to do what we could to help. We also offered to build a second set for you that would fit your car if we could get a jig or a the set back that you had modified when the event was over to build them from. It's unfortunate you are out the money to make these turbos work and ultimately fail, but I can assure you that the late night emails to AU and the early morning calls to BW to do what I can for you are most likely going to come to an end sooner than later. You may have vented too soon. Lesson learned for both of us.

I said I won't guarantee it won't fail. (any turbo can fail) The issues that John had have been completely addressed and fixed. In our tests of the new turbos we have not seen a failure. I can write an entire page about John's situation and everything I did personally to rectify it, but it's not going to change anything...and since I'm pecking at my iPhone right now anymore will have to wait until tomorrow. For now, suffice it to say the turbo in Chris' possession has been triple checked. If it fails I have no answer for you and I'll be on the phone with BW throwing a big fit. Like I said, we've beat on the latest version really hard and no failures. For whatever that is worth:

I'll take those bets. I want whichever exchange rate is higher on USD or AUD. Don't worry Chris, the shafts were never the problem, and the wheel issue has been sorted. I haven't seen one failure yet with the new wheel. I'm not saying it definitely won't fail, just the shaft won't be the issue and I have not seen one fail since the correction of the wheel material. Well played John.

No worries mate. Good Onya! (that's about all I know)

We DISAGREE on a lot of things, oddly enough it works out perfectly.

It's been an unfortunate series of events to be sure. Had BorgWarner known they were going to run into the production woes from their vendors they certainly would not have launched the product. Fact is, most turbos are holding up just fine. They have determined the culprit of those that have failed and all have derived from one vendor, and the problem only arose AFTER they were mass producing them. We have several that are in use now, taking plenty of abuse and no signs of failure on the horizon. I can say that the turbos we are getting now are solid, but very sparse. It will be another 7-8 months before these turbos are sitting on my shelf, in inventory, waiting for new orders. We see a lot of upside to these turbos, A LOT. It's just been overshadowed by production speed bump after speed bump.

Ha! I haven't forgot about you. I had to leave a little early today, but you're .92a/r will work well for response and still net you good power gains. No word from BW on releasing a larger wastegated housing at this time. I'm talking with them again tomorrow about availability and and a few other items on my "to-do" list. (I don't ever use emoticons, but found that one to be to my liking)

All of the larger framed turbos come with the ported compressor housings. 70mm-91mm On curtain really high flowing heads, some Hondas for instance, there is always a chance of a larger turbo surging so they are all ported. So to answer your question (I think), it's not an option.

Exactly what we found with these turbos, and again ZERO surge/shuffle.

Ha ha... the first part of that is actually really, REALLY funny. So...you are "assuming" that none of my "hard earned money" I'm going to invest in HUNDREDS of these turbos will be just fine if all these turbos go "up in smoke"? It would probably put me out of business. Seriously, you should have thought that one out a little. There has not been ONE single turbo failure on the intake side, thus far the only failures have been on the exhaust side and not affecting motors whatsoever and I doubt there will be. It's simple, if you are concerned, don't buy one. Last thing I'm posting up in here about this....If you have had PERSONAL experience with one, by all means POST UP ANYTHING you want, good or bad. If you want to blast away when you have not had any experience with them personally, well, that's what we in the states call haters. Label yourselves however you want.

Some of you guys are reading waaaay too much into this in my opinion. I believe getting as many race teams to test your product is EXACTLY how you find the merit of your product. BW had some of these turbos on their cars testing them well before they spoke with any outside agencies, but you need a variety of people using them. Various tuning strategies, engine displacements, revs, different fuels, etc. Running them for over a thousand hours on a gas stand won't get you all the real world info you need, and neither will using only your own cars and tuners. These turbos are not "grenades", I know of plenty here in the states that are taking abuse on a weekly, and some on a daily basis without the hint of failure. Yes, we have seen a few failures as too, but in most of those cases we asked the tuners to attempt to break them. (anti-lag, overspeed, etc) BorgWarner is a huge company, but trust me they DEFINITELY care whether or not this product fails. More than you would ever imagine. The launch has been littered with problems. From production woes, to companies they outsourced not being able to produce quality product in large volumes, materials being harder to work with than expected, etc. Did they "launch" the turbo too early? Probably. BorgWarner makes some of the best, most durable OEM and race application turbos on the planet, no argument. They have stepped out of the turbo norm to bring us a turbo that will prove to be a world class turbo in any situation. Any "haters" will hate, it's just the way it is. Forums are the greatest and worst thing ever invented. You have to take everything with a grain of salt. Weed through the crap and draw your own conclusions. The BorgWarner EFR's are world class turbos*, yes...with an asterisk. There have been and continue to be hiccups, but we can see the greatness here in the states because we've had more experience with them for much longer. If you are truly waiting to buy one of these turbos, I wouldn't be too discouraged by any of the recent events coming up on this forum. BorgWarner is addressing any and all issues right now as though this IS their only product. Rest assured, they'll be successful. (this is a forum, take any of that for what it's worth) Sierra Sierra was accused of "cheating" because of their straight away speed, the turbo works. And it did so without failing. I'm not here to argue any points, I'm not even here to calm a torch wielding mob, I'm just reporting what we know here in the states about the BorgWarner EFR team since we are in constant contact with them. The performance of these turbos will be more realized as time goes on, and ultimately will put all this e-banter to rest...I'm not concerned whatsoever. It's just a day or two after the event, I'll be back when I have something more significant to pass on. By the way Australia, you guys put on a world class event and should be very proud! -Brett

We didn't get word of any EFR failures from our contacts, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There have been a few people making aluminum replacements. We've have them for awhile. We left the center with open an 1/8"NPT thread so you can add your preference of barbed nipple. (straight, 90º, 45º, etc) Cool addition. BorgWarner makes one as well, but it is a block off plate vs. replacement.

http://www.7tune.com/wtac-news-scoop-cyber-evo-launches-protest/