thanks very much for the flames....
rather then stopping at busy roundabouts i usually try to keep a slight crawl on the car, otherwise i'll never get in when chance arises, so i hardly come to a complete stop..
ad i haven't been forcing it...has happened twice (crunches) so now i just leave it with slight pressure until i drops in itself, i may try the ouble clutch method - but this is not a everyday driving thing...just a few intersections up here that are always busy etc.