discopotato03

Mick and Scotty have PMs . I've looked into T3 spacer plates and most are 10mm though some are 20mm . To cover all bases is the thicker one needed when using larger compressor housings ie the 0.70 T04S ? Cheers A .

GT30 time now so I need a bell mouthed dump/front and inlet pipe to connect the 4"/100mm inlet to the Z32 in the std airbox position - and retain the std recirc and breather plumbing . Black rubber/silicon joiners too if possible . I rang Liverpool Exhausts and they have nothing off the shelf and would need car to fit , difficult since this dryer isn't fitted yet . It sounds like Mick or Scott may be able to make these pipes up provided they have jigs to do it because you can't have my daily driven car . I just need functional stuff that's neat and inconspicuous if possible so the changeover is quick and painless . Not going to argue over dollars because the stuff you turn out looks pretty good . For the record the dryer is a GT3076R with the GT30 IW five bolt outlet side like an XR6 has only in 0.82AR . Externally identical to Mickos GTX3071R in every way . If you can help me out please reply or PM , thanks in advance cheers Adrian .

If you weren't after a big top end then the GTX2860Rs are looking the part compressor map wise . The gaps between GTX60 63 67 are not that big and its interesting the trims go something like 58 56 55 . On paper the 60mm version looks to be a jack of all trades thought the 63mm one looks to be more GTRS/-10 territory . Be very interesting to see how the 60mm GTX turbo goes on a standard or mildly warmed RB26 . A .

Has anyone used the GTX2860Rs on a GTR/RB26 yet ? A .

If you think torque isn't important go back to the graphs and look at the torque readings when a turbo engine comes on boost . Homologation specials like GTRs are not IMO a great example of what production turbo engines/cars are like - because its reason for being was a narrow focus special . Typical production road cars make more torque (same engine/capacity) in turbo form than the NA versions do and surprisingly , for some , at lower revs than the NA ones often do . Gootta run trains to move , cheers A .

Second pic in this link (expanded)for those that haven't seen one . http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/152530-r33-s1-rb25det-exhaust-manifold/ A .

Geoff you'd probably see this as a backwards step . Anyway , R33 RB25s need a spacer to fit a GT3076R on the std manifold so it's probably not impossible to make the plate a twin entry T3 to twin entry T4 adapter plate . Going from smallish ports to the larger twin T4 ones obviously isn't ideal but it would let you mount a TS IW 7163 on the factory manifold . http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/130895042084?lpid=87 It may be possible to port the manifold a little at the flange to get the ports a "little" closer in size . Workable or don't bother ? A .

Interesting hearing about peoples justifications . Anyway , I'm sure Geoff will correct me if I'm wrong but the advantage of these EFRs is obviously the light weight turbines and the integral waste gate turbine housings . I don't know if BWs competition is able to mimic these turbines and long/bulky turbine housings is not what manufacturers often want in OE apps . Obviously Garretts aim is to make OE units because that's where volume sales and economic survival is . It would be in their interests to have lighter turbines because manufacturers want "instant response" from todays lean burn small capacity mower engines esp diseasels . It looks to me like we can't have every form of turbine housing because some probably don't work out so well overall . I think people would buy B1 sized turbos with T3 flanged housings though B1s seem to be aimed at the T25 flanged four cylinder market . Not so good if you have an early Nissan turbo four or an RB six cylinder with a T3 (slightly wider T3 Euro actually) flanged exhaust manifold . A lot goes on in the turbine housings inlet and getting an integral waste gate to function at high gas flow rates isn't easy . I think this is why the housing options are T25 open IW or T4 twin IW , and lastly T3 open IW . The missing T3 twin IW is very probably because it's difficult/impossible to merge the primary manifold pipes together and make workable gate vent passages downstream of the housings mounting flange . From pictures I've seen the modest sized T4 twin scroll housings don't look to have huge passages internally but they need the area through and inside the twin T4 flange to merge the gasses and make them exit easily through the vent passages when the gates open . The offset turbine housing outlet isn't new and Garrett etc did it on things like Sierra Cosworth YBB/YBD engines and I remember a Euro car ie Volvo doing it too . What BWs done is make it flow better and add twin scroll to the mix . And they're stainless meaning much easier for fabricators to weld to than say Garretts housings . Nothing to stop BW making housings and having flanges to weld to them as the market demands . Geoff I can't remember if I asked before so will there be an open T3 IW housing for the 7163 when it's available ? If the .83 one was suitable I gather it would blow the doors off a GT3076R in 0.82 form ... A .

I still like reading this thread from time to time even though its 6 or seven years old . 300 RWKW in a GTS25T is a good number by todays standards and the only real difference now is E70/85 and turbo technology has come forward with the HTAs GTXs and EFRs . The same choices remain with 2.5 or 3 litres and if staying 2.5 where to find the sweet spot turbo wise . I agree that twin scroll systems are nice but the effort and expense as Mr Mafia said make the RB30 look better all round . Turbo wise its a fine line between just getting or just falling short of the 300 RWKW mark and it's still a juggle of turbine housing size vs detonation as Marfia mentions several times . Hands down a GT3076R 56T or a GTX3071R both blitz 300 with a 0.82 AR GT30 IW housing and I believe that's on 98 PULP too . I think Jonno eventually got to ~ 320 Kw/700Nm with the 0.63 and the WMI allowed him to keep the timing up to make the power . At some stage it was changed to a 0.82 and I'm not sure he liked it as much . Right now if you set the bar at 300 max and didn't intend to spend much time at 7000 revs the 63 is probably Ok for a roadie if you can control detonation . The range of Garrett GT30 turbos that probably fit the power ask would be the GTX3067R maybe and the GT3076Rs probably in either trim . It would be great to know exactly what the GTX3067R tops out at as its probably going to be the most responsive of the three . It has the most compact compressor housing of the three and a 3" vs 4" inlet boss which would be a little more stealthy . Mr Lith has said that today you probably wouldn't opt for a GTRs or 2835 Pro S if buying new for a mildish RB25DET . Jonno if still here I'd like to hear your thoughts on how you'd do 300RWKW GTS25T if starting now . In some ways WMI looks attractive compared to Ethanol in the long run . Also BTW looking at your dyno sheets early in this thread they give the impression of being more NA V8 like than most turbo car graphs . Cheers A .

Probably more work than you want to do but if you can find a Neo Stag short motor and freshen that up it should work . The NA rods and pistons may not be up to turbo use .

There will be air in the tank above the fuel but the vapour generally isn't as flammable in an enclosed space as people sometimes think . The worry would be what was causing arcing across the electrical connections that may be exposed inside the fuel tank . You'd think a pump drawing 18-20 amps would be more likely to do this than one drawing 8.6 amps .

There's some interesting reading at Evom and little bits being mentioned about the impending 7163 . http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/533438-new-bw-efr-turbo-thread-167.html I can see a lots of testing and comparisons between this one and the 7064 and 7670s . I predict that the 7163 won't make huge numbers but will probably do amazing things for its size . From what I see there isn't going to be a T3 flanged turbine housing from EFR though I suspect a few sharpies may try to fit alternative housings to them . Plainly TS T3 isn't going to happen and while single scroll isn't the best technology available a 7163 in this form should be better in theory than a GT3076R . It makes me wonder how they'd go with someone else's 0.63 or 0.82 IW housing .

Not sure if people think it's OT but that T04S compressor housing is a bulky cow of a think and I still have to wonder if it makes that much difference over a T04E one . If you look through the range of FP HTA GT30/35 based turbos most / all have that T04S housing and it makes them look BIG . Correct me if I'm wrong but from 71 to 86mm HTA compressors must have significantly different air flow rates yet all use a modified S housing . Garrett doesn't seem to have problems using the more compact E housing with it's 2" outlet and they seem to get good power out of it . Perhaps the Ford XR6 GT3582R version is good to look at considering it has an even smaller A/R (0.50 vs 0.60) version of the T04E compressor housing and it copes sort of OK for a 4 litre engine . Lith you may think I'm splitting hairs but I've read quite a few threads where people build up their Skylines and end up going to an aftermarket exhaust manifold and hang something off it with a biggish comp housing ie 3582R or similar outline thing . The applicable plumbing in/out is huge and quite obvious compared to OE RB25DET , they get pulled over for a lid lift and it's game over - take it back to standard inc emissions test . The average Joe is never going to take it back to standard and another Skyline bites the dust . Lith we both know a 3076R doesn't look standard either but I reckon it looks a bit less lethal and is a bit easier to fit - purely because of it's compressor housing . People like me want to keep the standard exhaust manifold and air box and we run the return flow intercoolers with 2 inch pipes to keep things looking mostly standard . Obviously FP aren't stupid and they use these HTA wheels in Mitsy or similar housings on Evo turbos - direct fit ones in Evo 9s . The last thing I want is a bulky turbo because it's so obvious , I am interested in 71 and 76 HTAs but not with that compressor housing . It's the only thing that lets them down IMO . A .

IMO the EFRs are better generic units than those Garrett dual boost things . They look like specialised model/engine specific turbos and not very versatile . Also calling the hot side axial is a bit elastic as the gas flow still turns through 90 degrees . Clearly BW is on the right track trying hard to minimise the mass/inertia of the rotating group (turbine) and offering twin scroll and integral waste gating . Nothing wrong with conventional wisdom if everything is really dialled in . Garrett appears to be trying the cheap way out with current materials and questionable black magic (apprentice engineering) . Good luck with that ... It would be good for BW to get OE interest and volume sales because that's where the real money is . Not sure if its helping them but the trend these days is smaller engines and higher boost to get the torque out of them , not surprisingly tightening emissions regs are f**king over advanced engineering so gains can be minimal .

I wish BW'd get the finger out with the B1 7163 turbo because it's been soooooo long in the pipeline . I keep searching for new info/results but all I find is limited testing with prototypes and they've changed over time . About the only thing I've read recently is that they (I think) developed to be in step with Indycar apps and possibly that held them up . I'm guessing the "little" extras like the aluminium centre housing and the mixed flow turbine wheel have gone through the competition R/D wringer . Anyway if you see GT3076Rs as the yardstick to measure RB25DET turbos with then the 7163 should do anything they can and in theory be better everywhere , except packaging and cost . Being a B1 cartridge size these may or may not get the 0.83 AR T3 flanged single scroll IW turbine housing like the B2s do . There is supposed to be a T4 twin scroll IW housing for them but not sure about T3 . It's hard to say if there is sufficient call for an open T3 IW B1 housing though BW obviously thinks there is for the larger frame 7064 7670 etc . Anyway if the 7163 really can smash everything up to 500/550 Hp whilst being light and reasonably compact , at least diameter wise , BW should clean up . The market has waited so long for these turbos and you have to wonder what other turbo manufacturers are brewing up behind closed doors . You can wait too long and many have given up spending their money elsewhere .

What one Evo person found . http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2880944 Just changed the oil in my 33 yesterday and again Rotella T6 and a genuine filter . My Skyline at 125K doesn't burn any and it doesn't come out smelling of ethanol after 6000k . My take on lube oil is viscosity additives and price . The viscosity relates to cold and running oil temps and oil pressure soon tells you if the viscosity is inadequate . At over 100000 ks I don't expect to have as new bearing clearances so I don't use 30 weight oils . The right anti wear additives look after the valve train and turbo running surfaces . I don't think price is a good indicator of lube oil quality so if you find a good oil that isn't expensive - compared to some .... Oh and by the way T6 significantly reduces the "lifter" , hydraulic rocker pivot actually , tick in my Evo 6 . It was bad at times using Mobil 1 4T Racing 10W40 which is quite high in ZDDP and better IMO than any of the available car M1 oils . A .

Well Lith I guess it depends on your definition of best performance engines . Generally the highest horsepower comes at revs and under square engines often are not top end screamers . The greatest limitation power wise for a square or under square engine is the lack of valve , mainly inlet , valve area . There comes a time when the cylinder bores limit valve size you can physically fit in the chambers . You mention SR20s and they are an interesting case in point . These were developed to be an east west as well as a north south engine so packaging compromises in east west form limited the blocks length as well as the bore centres . It was not really intended to be a competition engine even though Nissan had half a go with the Pulsar GTiR version , which ended up being an epic failure as a competition car - won jack shit . The only serious engine was the Super Tourer Primera one and it was so far removed from a production SR20 as to be unrecognisable . They basically had the 89 x 80 bore stroke of the FJ20 as well as turning the head around and then driving the cams from the opposite end . The block and head castings may have started out as SR20 but in the end there was SFA Nissan about it . I'm not so sure Toyota went road racing with the 2JZGTE and even if you could stop the Supras body flex the manifolds are RS on 2Js . The reason I mentioned the old Cosworth BDA was because it used a big bore compared to stroke bottom end and the head worked very well in its day . A real race twin cam head is quite tall because the included angle between the inlet and exhaust valves is narrow to keep the valves out of the pistons and also to house steeply downdraught inlet ports . A tall head needs a not too tall block to fit in a production car and that works out best with a big bore and a short stroke otherwise the complete engine gets too tall . Same story with Nissans Formula Pacific based LZ twin cam engines in the "L14" blocks . These were actually L18 blocks with short stroke cranks in them and hanging 10000 revs off them was nothing . Off the top of my head there is no square RBs though 30s from memory are closest at 86 x 85 - from memory . They get a leg up from having quite long rods too . Now to a theoretical RB30 based on VG30 dimensions . Larger bore could have supported larger valves and depending on rod length the block may not have needed to be as tall as an RB30 so a little easier to package in twin cam form . We'll never know . The one non standard RB variant , RB24 , really shows the shortcomings of lack of bore diameter . Compared to an RB25 a 24 lacks valve and port area and there's SFA you can do about it . Compare the bores and strokes though neither is square . 4G63s are an old design now and in competition use (FIA Group A) they never busted 5500 revs with turbo restrictors on them . You can probably argue that a slightly undersquare engine may make slightly better torque (low to mid range) when it is rev limited - doesn't rev high enough for valve area to be a problem . Also rod and piston inertia not a real biggie provided they can withstand the high boost almost diesel like characteristics . Sorry Geoff must have been thinking of the NA I6s .

Yes I like that idea too though engines like BDAs and FJ20s were a bit more than square . If Nissan really intended the RB30 to be a true high performance engine it could have used the bore and stroke of the VG30 which I think is 87 x 83 . Sadly V6s package better than straight ones so RBs died a quick death . BMW kept them alive for a time but eventually went to the dark side with a V8 I believe in M3s . A .

Also the 4B11T is a more modern engine than a 4G63T or an RB six . More modern head designs inc chamber and port cooling and variable cam timing both sides . Brad I'd like to hear more about your E30 experiences maybe in one of the ethanol/E85 threads . Cheers A .

Things are looking like changing in America with ethanol fuel blends and there is a push to introduce E15 for cars made from/after 2oo1 - or was it 2007 ? I think the corn growers want to expand ethanol production which means introducing blends greater than 10% . Real world I think the problem is that E10 is made with ~ 90% piss grade ULP and all the 10% ethanol content does is make many engines run leaner . In other words there isn't enough ethanol in it to raise the octane rating to the point where knock sensors stay dormant and not cause the system to retard the ignition timing . More ethanol ie 15%+ can raise the octane rating of 91ULP but it seems you need a computer smart enough to compensate for the leaner AFR . I did find a few reports OS showing how some blends in the E20-E30 range can match and sometimes very slightly better consumption compared to 91 ULP . There was another interesting fact that the oil co's are blending the ethanol and then setting the price of blended fuels meaning they are controlling the consumer price of the ethanol content which is a rort . Ethanol is shit loads cheaper to produce than ULP but to look at the price of E70/85 on the pumps you wouldn't think so . It's a shame independents can't source bulk ethanol and buy/blend ULP at reasonable rates to reduce the end price for us . Obviously the oil co's see ethanol as a threat and given a choice there wouldn't be any in fuel at all . I hope that E15-25 blends become available here and someone with enough of a public following can prove that there is no disadvantage in using it in cars made in the last 7-10 years . Joe average still thinks ethanol burns out the seals in his engine killing it but who's ever seen that happen ? I think we are going to have to stand up for ethanol blends of which E10 is a waste of time . The main stream is clearly not interested in E70-85 because the cost of motoring is their main concern and at those levels there's nothing in it for them with engines optimised for 91-95 ULP . Main stream sales ultimately make or break any products success and ethanols survival will depend on govt legislation , read green slime garbage , and possibly low to mid percentage blends if they are cost effective for Joe average .

An original Garrett GT3071R will have 0.50 AR on the compressor housing , the real GT3076Rs have 0.60 AR compressor housings . A .

For the record N14/15 Pulsars use the same connector for their cooling fans that R33s have at the pumps tank lids connection . The Pulsar ones have the heaviest gauge wire I've seen in this type of plug so it may be better than the 33s have and not hard to splice in when doing the rewire . I think you can buy these plugs at EFI Hardware though I'd like to buy just the terminals if available and repin them myself . A .

Only thing I can think of and it could be a tad laggy is the new GTX3067R in a 0.63 AR T3 flanged GT30 housing . It seems the want to make boost down low , often too low , means using modest sized turbine housings and turbines - and then the higher exhaust gas speed makes it reluctant to turn the sharp 90 degree angle to vent through your typical integral wastegates hole . I mentioned GTX3067R because its the smallest compressor option Garrett make with a BB GT30 turbine and housing . 0.63 is the smallest turbine housing they do but the combination flows better exhaust wise than say a GTRS (GT2871R in a HKS 0.64AR T3 flanged turbine housing) . Two litre sixes are hard because compared to the same capacity four they're are only getting 17% of their capacity firing every power pulse rather than 25% . It's not hard to see why Toyota Subaru and Mazda at times tried sequential twin turbos to make boost over a wider rev range .

That is about the same result power wise I got with E70 and a GTRS . Like yours I use all the std plumbing inc the air box and snorkel and with a Blitz return flow IC . Granted I do have a bit of porting and Tomei 256s , and a Nismo exhaust with a large body ceramic cat . I'm guessing the Hypergear has a bit more turbine and housing than a GTRS which should make it rev a bit faster . Good result cheers A .

In my opinion the housings and mainly the hot one are what sets the limits with these Evos when looking for more power . FP and a few other mobs do alternative compressor housings but there aren't that many direct fit turbine housings for them . I know someone with a 7 that has the 10.8cm one and reckoned it was a good looking thing internally . Mick you would know that MiVec 9s came with a 10.5 housing and it had the better waste gate system than the earlier twin disc ones like 6s had . The 10.8 looks like a slightly enlarged ported 9 one . You have a significant advantage with a Mivec engine and I remember Mark at GT Pumps telling me that they feel a bit more like a non VCT stroker motor down low . A .