discopotato03

A kind feller from the VW Vortex site ran some numbers and did a compressor map overlay of the GT2871R 52T comp wheel and the 67mm GTX compressor . Similar sorts of things though he thinks the complete GTX3067R in 0.63 turbine housing form may fall just short of 300 RWKW for an RB25 . Basically not worth the turbo changeover price . They suggest someone elses GT30 + 71mm billet wheel hybrid that they reckon fits in somewhere between the 67 and 71mm X wheels . Alternatively they suggest buying a GTX3071R through ATP and getting the 0.60 AR T04B comp housing rather than its usual 0.60 T04E one . Gut feeling is that GTX wheels were designed to be used with port shrouded comp housings fir a reason . http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5965002-Performance-differences-between-Garretts-GTX2867R-and-GTX3067R&p=80828050&posted=1#post80828050 A .

I can only guess what what the fictitious "GT2967R" would make but it should do better than a GTX2867R and spin up a bit sooner than the new GTX3067R - depending of course on T housing AR size . Garretts claiming I think 500 hp from this GTX3067R and if you factor in Mirandas inside leg measurments and estimated the rest maybe 450 at the crank and guesses 390+ at the wheels . On the bleeding edge . The nearest real world comparison would be a GT2835 Pro S run as hard as possible with E70/85 on a slightly polished RB25DET . I know the drift world is all over the GTX2863R and GTX2867R but I don't see a mass migration to the GTX3067R , possibly because it would trade some low to mid torque for a bit more top end and that probably isn't as critical to drifters . Could the "GTX2967R" shift the balance towards the slightly bigger cropped GT30 turbine , who knows . No one will till someone tries it . For Garrett to do it they'd need to see if theres enough meat in their castings to machine up ok with their slightly smaller turbine dimensions and then profile it for the cropped turbine . It should fit in with their goals of a compact unit making good grunt and help showcase their latest compressor technology . Be a bit of an orphan but if it raised interest and had a catchy name maybe a win win for them . A .

Or thinking about it just buy a 2835 cartridge in 52T and use the RS comp housing (bolt) and the Pro S turbine housing (bolt) . With the Pro S dump it literally should all bolt up . A .

I was saying HKS wasn't stupid when they had Garrett crop their 60mm 84 trim GT30 turbine back to around 56mm and 84 trim . Like Garrett did later (GT3071R) HKS could of used the full sized GT30 turbine in their "GT2835" turbos but obviously found that lacking as in laggy down low . Garret has never used this cropped turbine in anything other than a bored out GT28 turbine housing and we know thats fairly useless . Hot sides have always a big problem in petrol performance turbos because the higher temperatures (compared to diseasels) means they pretty much have to use expensive and difficult to produce castings . Virtually all T3 flanged Garrett GT30 turbine housings are made to suit the full sized GT30 turbine and its a pity they don't machine some to suit the cropped version of their turbine wheel . This is probably all they could do to get a bit better turbine response than the full sized version has and you'd think should work better with the 67mm X compressor and their 71mm GT ones . As Nismoid said Wolverine has had a good selection of turbos on RB25s and even he says there is a distinct jump in the power and loss of some turbine response going from a GTRS to a GT2835 Pro S . Before I go there is one more variable between these two HKS spec Garret turbos and thats the comp housing family sizes . Neither is a Garrett made housing but they are made to fit Garrett compressor backplates , the RS being T04"B" size and the 2835 Pro S T04"E" size . Compressor wheels are the same Garrett 71mm GT family though 52T for the RS and 56T for the 2835 Pro S . Really everything went up a notch with the 2835 Pro and you would expect to lose a little of that nice part throttle torque that the GTRS had . Wolverine has told me that in the day to day driving round the burbs he sometimes misses the little extra zing the GTRS had and its something you'd probably notice more in a heavier Stagea . Maybe he can tells us if he reckons it'd be less noticable in an R33 coupe . In a perfect world maybe Garrett could give us a version of the GTX3067R with the cropped turbine and fit a 0.63 AR GT30IW turbine housing on the back of it . If I could buy second hand a turbine housing and dump from a 2835 Pro S I reckon I could organise a turbine change to put a cropped GT30 turbine into a GT2867R cartridge . Bash the two together and have probably the best 300 or very close RWKW almost bolt on turbocharger for a street RB25DET . Still using a B comp housing and probably no spacers on the exhaust side . Anyone want to sell me a 0.68AR GT Pro S turbine housing and dump pipe ? Cheers A .

Ryno if I read it right you made about 265 anyou are saying that a 1" runner manifold will "spool" some reasonably healthy sized turbos even on an RB20 . I'm using the same turbo on an RB25DET with its port matched only std cast manifold and I don't think its lazy to get going - or lightswitch either . I think tuning is critical in these light throttle engine and turbo transient stages and the mixtures and timimg need to be spot on to get the best performance in these areas . When they are you get the most part throttle torque possible because the engine is making the best use of its air and fuel . The thing I didn't notice on your graphs was a torque curve or line and if you want to make comparisons I reckon it should be torque rather than Kw or Hp . Torque numbers are not rev/time related ones like Kw or Hp are , torque is a straight unit of force measurement . Sk Gary said years ago that dyno graphs should have 1/4 1/2 and 3/4 throttle runs as well because this would show up what an engine does when its "hole" isn't fully open . No ones drives a road car or even a track car at full throttle everywhere and the transitions are really important . Most people open up a bit to get up to speed and cruise at that speed up hill down dale etc . I've been across Heathcote Road and down the Princs Hwy to Dapto lots in the last week and to tell the truth I'm rarely out of 5th or at more than 3000 revs when up to speed . My car can generally pull 5th gear up all but the steepest hills in 80 km/h posted areas and thats at an indicated 22-2300 revs . I find my GTRS really good round town , mostly 60-70 km/h , and it pulls really well in 4th or if need be a squirt in 3rd . I don't honestly think we can boot any of these cars around anywhere legally in more than 3rd gear so I have to wonder how far is it necessary to go performance wise - in a mostly road car . Don't worry I also wonder what it would be like to have 300 WKw and I guess knowing it would feel good but having a use for it would be something else . It doesn't take 300 wheel Kw to cruise at 110-120 and I don't think an expressway hill has been invented that an R33 couldn't sail over at 3000 revs . I'm all for people getting what they want but the goal I mainly seek is strong part throttle performance because I rarely use full throttle . Lately I've been researching GTX2867Rs GTX3067Rs and the GT3076R 52T thats sill in its box . GTX3071R is beyond what I want because I think they push the boost threshold too high as in where they come on song and haul . One thing I was surprised to find out , and this came from a fellers research at the VW Vortex site , is that the compressor performance of the GTX67mm wheel is VERY similar to the 71mm 52T GT wheel - which is what GTRSs use . Admittedly thats going off Garretts 71mm 52T GT map and note Garrett didn't use port shrouded compressor housings like HKS did on the GTRS . If you look at the current Volume 5 Honeywell Garrett cattledog the power potential of the 67mm X wheel is from memory 500 Hp and the 71mm 52T GT wheel 475 hp . A whole 25 Hp/17Kw difference if you could take these compressors right to the bleeding edge at approx 2.5 pressure ratio - maybe 22-23 pounds of boost . I believe the 67X wheel is rated at 47 pounds of air flow by mass so if you take my old conservative 10% off that gives you 42 pounds of air and approximately 420 hp potential - at the crankshaft . Even if you say GTX wheels work better when pushed and use 5% your going to be pushing real hard to get 400 brumbies at the treads . I think we know that in the real world we aren't going to get an RB25 there with a GT28 turbine and 0.64 housing so its back to the damn turbine side again . GT30 and AGAIN there are a few choices though the uncropped 60mm 84T one is easiest mainly because we can get IW housings for them . HKS really wasn't stupid when they had Garrett grind the cropped version of the GT30 turbine . Intermission - back later .

I can see you throwing good money after bad , a head set up for an RB25 may not suit an RB30 chamber and CR wise . Can you sell your RB25 bottom end and finance a dirty 30 ? Yes and I wouldn't even think of not running E85 or E70 at that sort of power level . I'm just putting my first full tank of E70 through and the consumption is looking like being ~ 100K per 1/4 tank . My tune needs a bit of redoing in a few places and with better injectors it can only get better . If in the Gong where is your closest Eflex servo , Heathcote ? If so its not that far away . If you had three jerrys you could fill up and take the other tanks worth home , 800 odd Ks between fuel runs . Don't need dual maps with a PFC , just have two and changeover with a laptop . A .

440 Kw is around 585Hp and if you wanted it "nice" for a daily driver it should have had an RB30 bottom end . The whole point of the extra capacity is that you don't have to rev it to make the power . Five sixths of 8000 revs is 6666 and I'd rather be there with an RB30 that at 8K with an RB25 . I really don't think the inlet timing change is going to pull the bottom end power up on an RB25 with a bigish turbocharger on it . IMO the nicest overall result would have been an RB26 head and six throttle inlet system on top of an RB30 block . A .

I think they have the potential to be good things provided as always you don't get too hungry size wise . Map wise you sort of need to go down a wheel size with them compared to the GT series ie from GT3076R to GTX3071R - and in theory GT3071R to GTX3067R . Recently I was looking at overlayed maps of these examples and generally the one down size GTX wheels appear to be wider ranging ones but they seem to make their power gains from higher pressure ratios - boost . You would think that a machined forging would be stronger lighter and a better overall shape than a casting but they chaged things like OD blade count and trim size as well . Think they have extended tips too . The greatest advantage of a machined wheel is that you can make mild to wild changes and its as simple as changing the CNC programming . Anyway the Xs will be cheaper OS and if you already have a turbine housing cheaper again . Anyone selling a GT30 IW big gate one ? A .

Well if you can bolt a GT30 turbo up with a truck style T04B 0.60 AR compressor housing I'd say yes . The RB spec GTRS is similar but with the std sized inlet snout . The Garrett housing probably has a 3" inlet boss so you need something larger to match it . Also need a different exhaust flange/dump if you currently have the std Nissan type one which GTRSs also have . Incidentally my dump is the one I got off Woolverine and its an open or bell mouthed one . A .

No I don't know of any adapted T25 flanged 0.86 housings . Some have said that it didn't it didn't always pay of but those were probably on inline 4s so hard to make an inline six judgement . Yeah well these GTX turbos are exy and I'd like to see more results before I make the jump . A .

Well Scott at Insight tuned mine and got 271 from my GTRS setup . He also said that turbo seems soooo small but hey it did the numbers . A GT2535 is the same as a GTRS on the hot side but the compressor is a 71mm one in 52 trim where yours is I think 68ish mm in 56 trim . Also the GTRSs compressor housing is port shrouded so they don't surge with the boot in at low/med engine revs . You should probabvbly do some searches on the Garrett GTX2867R because they also fit in our HKS turbine housings .The $64 question remains , is it the turbine or compressor side thats holding the power show up - or possibly both sides . The $128 question is how well does that GTX3067R work in the real world ? I'm reluctant to go beyond the 3067R to the GTX3071R because I don't want 500 Hp or the turbine lag that goes with it . I'm thinking real hard about that GT3067R and if I went ahead my GTRS would be up for grabs . A .

Dredged up old thread . Viewers I stumbled across what looks like a plain bearing "Garrett" GT3067S turbo thats supposed to be standard on some great stall POS bus - um 4G180-20 diseasel engine . Anyway said to be a GT30 turbocharger and the cartridge looks like a big frame non water cooled plain bearing one . Something of interest may be the single scroll IW turbine housing with a V band outlet and what looks like a T3 flange . Nowhere I looked showed the cartridge number . I did find pics of Garrett boxes with all the details in dead spider lingo . The only people who may be interested I reckon are those on the hunt for a plain bearing big shaft GT30 turbine and or that T3 flanged IW GT30 turbine houing in 0.82 or possibly 0.84 AR . A .

It sounds like most of the GT28 based turbos are going to run out of puff in the 270 - 280 RWKw area and to do better means going up in turbine and housing size - as in beyond GT28 sized anything . Garretts changeover point from GT28 to GT30 turbines was with the GT2871R t0 GT3071R and its same deal with the newer GTX2867R and GT3067R . Us RB people are a bit limited in what T3 flanged turbine housings we can use so beyond HKS and OP6 ones (GT28 basiically) your limited to T3/T31 or GT30 ones . I'd like to know more about power vs turbine response with the GTX3067R and GTX3071R and what can be achieved with Garretts GT30 0.63 AR IW housing in each case . Its probably worth noting that the GTX3067R uses a T04B comp housing and can probably be a bit more stealthy than the GTX3071R which uses a T04E housing , and would possibly need spacing out like you do with a GT3076R which is same dimensionally . So where does that leave you with a HKS GT2535 ? You could retain your T3 flanged HKS turbine housing and fit a GTX2867R into it - or opt for one of the modestly sized GTX30R turbos for a bit more . Depends what power you're chasing and how much you can afford to spend . Staos turbos would be cheaper and probably easier to fit . A .

If it were me I'd use the Neo parts if not the complete Neo engine . Newer better rods and you'd think coming from an ultra low emission (ULEV) era a bit more detonation resistant than the R33 era RB25DET . Aside from better cam profiles and soild buckets you lose the awkward side feed injectors too and should be able to fit shortish EV14s . Also the R34 CAS is easier to get at times . Personally I don't think the aftermarket inlet manifolds are worth it unless you are chasing more than 310 Kws and its going to be laggy anyway . Nismo always said he made real good power ages ago and that was with a std config RB25 inlet manifold . A .

Yeah the boost pressure is the same but the volume of air passing through isn't . A .

Something strange there , mine came from JJ and doesn't look like that . Mine stepped down in the pipes where they connect to the std ducts like in the first pic .

Interesting , I've been told to put X amount of tankfulls of e70 through mine to get the other stuff well and truly out - so I've put six lots of 15 litres through it and will do a couple of tankfulls before the "final" tune . Mine cruises at expressway speeds at an indicated 0.97-0.98 lambda but is more like 0.94-0.96 light throttle at lower speeds . My fuel consumption is better on the highways but could improve a little round town . I'm interested in these EV14s because I'm told they are more accurate and have better spray patterns than earlier designs and that adds up to better drivability and consumption than older injectors . I after as much part throttle torque as I can get and doing it with tighter controls is still easier/cheaper than strokers or RB30s . More low down torque lets you run slightly larger turbos if you like because you don't need boost as early just to get around . Actually one more thing with these injectors , its been said that they prefer to run at slightly higher rail pressures and I'm curious to know if anyones cranked it up a bit . Cheers A .

This is a Garrett catalog that covers many of the GTX turbos inc the GTX3067R . Interesting side notes on the GTX2860/63/67 turbos and what a few racers have gotten out of them . I suspect its with highish boost levels . http://www.turbobyga..._Catalog_V5.pdf Yeah not too sure about some of those aftermarket turbine housings , some people think the material is just so so . A .

Lith a problem still exists in that aside from the HKS ones , think RB spec GT2530/2535/GTRS , no one really made a GT28 turbine housing with a T3 flange and sadly HKS only did it in 0.64AR and not 0.86AR . What this means is no larger housing for RBs where the SR brigade have the 0.86 AR T28 housing . I know I've looked before and in the 0.86 housing that NS111 turbine flows similarly to a GT30 turbine - in a 0.63 AR GT30 turbine housing . I sort of wonder how a GTX2867R in a 0.86 turbine housing would compare to a GTX3067R in a 0.63 AR housing . Anyhow I agree that for SR (T28 flange) people at least either a GTX2863R or GTX2867R is probably better and cheaper new than a HKS GTRS . For the RB (T3 flange) people you either go GT30xxR or with either the HKS 0.64 or an OP6 housing . I don't know if anyone ever bought a flange adapter and used Garretts 0.86 GT28 housing on an RB engine . A .

This site has some interesting info and overlays comparing a range of GT and GTX compressor wheels inc the 67mm GTX one . http://forums.subdriven.com/showthread.php?5933731-Garret-gtx-options&p=80430561 Note that the GTX3067 is the smallest GT30R comp options but it still uses a port shrouded version of the old T04B compressor housing . The GTX3071R and GTX3076R jumo up to the T04E sized compressor housing so we don't get to see the 67mm GTX wheel in the T04E comp housing . This is again a bit like trying to compare GT2871R compressor performance with GT3071R compressor performance , the 28s used B housings where the 30s use E housings . If aiming for around say 300 WKw the GTX3067R may fall a tad short and the GTX3071R be a tad over the top - if you wanted the broadest usable power range . A .

I went to IDs site to see what their range is and came up with two possibilities . It seems that Gen IV Chevs run this style of shorty injector I think in LS3 LS7 and some later truck versions . Injector Dynamic do one in this size called ID 850-GM so if you want the claimed to be blueprinted version with a 14mm top ID can supply . The other possibility is the ID 725-48-11 which means 725cc 48mm long 11mm OD top section . Scott at Insight says he has not used the shorty Xspurts but the 48mm long ones work well and virtually same as the IDs . I have looked at pics of R34GTt rails and I think their supply and reg tubes would be a nightmare to fit under an R33 plenum , Nissan didnt plant their R34 reg on top of the front of the rail like they did with 33s . To have any hope of using an OE rail it would have to be from an RB20 or 26 , which means 11mm top O ring injectors and the shortest EV14s I think are 48mm long . For the record has anyone successfully used an RB20 or 26 rail on an R33 RB25 std manifold and is there much difference in their mounting points . I think I have an R33 RB26 rail here burried somewhere . I know an aftermarket rail is easiest but it would be nice to have the fuel lines and reg about where they should be and looking standardish . A .

I may have read it somewhere and thought it was a GTX3076R typo . If you search images of these things you often get pics of GTX3076Rs with the larger E series comp cover and 11 bladed compressor , not hard to make the obvious mistake . I think it could be a viable alternate for a HKS GTRS though the heavier GT30 turbine may make it a little laggier . I can believe that 400 Hp is possible with a GT30 turbine where its virtually impossible with a GT28 pair , particularly in 0.64 AR form . A .

Hi all , stumbled upon another GTX BB turbo I didn't know about . This ones called GTX3067R and externally looks like the compressor end of a GT2860RS but in the newer style T04B port shrouded 0.60 AR compressor housing . It differs from the usual GTX compressor wheels in that its 10 rather than 11 bladed and at one site they reckon they decided to give up a little high pressure ratio performance for slightly better spool . Garrett looks to be claiming ~ 400 450 Hp (300-337 Kw) from this "compact" turbocharger size . This is a link to their Sema booth and about half way down is a pic and brief description of what it does . Note the V Band "mohawk" turbine housing which they say will be available in three AR sizes . http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/id/2780/pageid/5382/nerds-eye-view-sema-edition-2012-part-i.aspx Numerically speaking 67mm doesn't look real big but I think Garrett is attempting to better the 71mm 6 bladed compressor normally found in turbos like GT2871Rs and GT3071Rs . I guess if they can do that with 4 more blades and 4mm smaller major diameter why not . Note the port shrouded compressor housing would be an essential part of GTX compressor performance . Depending on how they spool and pump overall these may be the thing Garrett wanted with the GT3071R , more turbine / flow and hopefully better compressor performance . One to watch , cheers A .

The compressors inlet diametre from memory is 57mm (2 1/4") and the only reason the compressor housings boss is 100mm (4") is for the ported shroud . The Z32 is 80mm (3 1/8 OD) and internally is the smallest part of the inlet plumbing . I doubt its bore size is any larger than 76mm (3") so using 4" pipe wouldn't gain any flow only volume . A .

The red with brown eyes , unique combination . Good to finally see some RB results with a HTA30R , somewhere in Evolutionm.net Burcher is supposed to have got 600 whp + tq in pounds with one of those at from memory 30+ pounds of boost . Lith did you ever see any results from the little known about 73mm HTA30R ? A .