discopotato03

Yeah not worth going there by the sound of it . Here's a pic of a cut open Neo Plenum .

Sorry if a bit OT . I was under the impression that this was a fail on RB25 plenums - or at least R33 spec ones . Tao I'd like to hear your opinion on this one as I took your advice and fitted your preferred intercooler with a Just Jap over the fan pipe kit . It would be good to use a bend and throttle mounted on the plenum if it can be made to work properly . Thanks in advance , cheers Adrian .

Just to round off old thread . As mentioned my R33 ended up with a Plazmaman rail and injector collars and initially ID850 short EV14 injectors . The reg is a Turbosmart that mounted neatly off the front of the rail with a 90 deg fitting so that it missed everything and linked to the filter in its std mount . That part went a lot easier than I thought it would . As mentioned just changed to short EV14 980cc injectors (0 280 158 040) . The poor old injector loom now has 3 set of plugs because its used original Sumitomo and US Car and now EV1 style connectors . I have a new sub loom coming from Kudos which just has the EV1 plug connectors . The pump is a drop in R33 GTR Nizmo . Someone asked about the Neo manifold , yes I have this and if I get that far it will go on later . There are slight mods needed to fit the 33 TB because of its top air barb and channel . The IAC valve is just cut and shut two wires . As for the Neo rail , I have a couple of those and a bare lower manifold so can use as a jig to play with injector lengths . Others have recently found that short EV14 injectors are too short and don't drop in without some sort of adapter to sit them higher in the manifolds injector seat . Currently I like the idea of long nose 3/4 length EV14s , the 3/4 body should be close to standard length . Trouble is EV14s in this style aren't made in larger sizes and I think they top out in the 630-700cc range at 3 bar base pressure . Maybe just enough to scrape in 300-320 ish wheel wasps on Eflex which is as far as I'd go on a 270k 22 yr old std R33 bottom end . A .

Interesting that it worked well with a front entry on the Neo Plenum . A .

Thanks for these . The injectors went in yesterday replacing short 850cc EV14s so no mods other than plug connectors . I wanted the longer tip to get closer to the airstream so no adapters other than the ally collars to convert from side feed . IMO given a choice short EV14s are the go in R33 25 manifolds , I hear 3/4 length ones can work but have to file a bit off the underside of the upper manifold to get it clear the fuel rail . Thanks again , cheers Adrian .

Hi all , got a set of Bosch EV14 040s going in tomorrow . Have searched for ages and only found one reference to their voltage corrections at a Rotary site 8v - 3.05 ms 10v - 2.06 ms 12v - 1.50 ms 14v - 1.20 ms 16 - 1.01 ms . These numbers look a bit out there to me so if anyone knows the correct one can they post them please Thanks in advance cheers Adrian .

A neat clean Evo 6 should keep its value longer than a GTt . Last of the real ones ie homologation specials before production based Group A Rally was axed for kit car WRC regs . True , a Neo 25T will make the power easier with 6 pots but at warp 9 the Evo will be a more stable platform . I like my GTS25T but I feel a lot safer when it comes to fast steering cornering and stopping in my 6GSR . The reaction to driver inputs is a fair bit sharper in the Evo and they feel VASTLY more sure footed and planted than a RWD R series Skyline .The Skyline is arguably the better daily and long distance tourer but its more relaxing because its not quite as sharp and you have to pay a bit more attention to where the Lancer is going and how the chassis talks to you . Things like fast racks close ratio gearboxes and magic feeling brakes are standard equipment even on the GSR version . Take a look at the Top Gear and 5th Gear youtubes on Evo 6s , interesting . Probably the real test would be a factory standard Evo 6 vs a factory standard GTt . I reckon the Mitsy would eat the GTt . Think hard about an Evo 6 vs the later Cedia based 7/8/9 because parts are more readily available for them . Also 6s didn't get the active center differential and the later transfer case won't fit under a 6 . A .

This is FICs calculator . https://fuelinjectorclinic.com/flow-calculator For shits 'n giggles I entered 670 wheel Hp at 43.5 base pressure @ 85% DC and for 4 and 6 cylinders (injectors) . It came up with around 1860cc and 1250cc for 4 and 6 . I think I prefer ASNUs ideas about making up their own diffuser plate cap fitting than the exposed ball valve . They have a version of the 1650 or whatever EV14 and you'd think it would break up the spray a bit better than a bare ball .

Those ID1300s don't appear to have the multi hole diffuser plate , is it just an open ball seat valve ? A .

Obviously unmolested EV14 series injectors atomise better at their tips than the factory injectors of the 80s/90s did . I get the feeling that small single pintle ie EV1 injectors were intended to have a narrow spray cone further back from the airstream than later designs . The fact that the spray cones on some EV14s can be 50 odd degrees means it ain't gonna work if its sitting back in a reasonably narrow passage If you fit extended nose EV14s in the place of standard tip EV14s it extends the tip 13mm further into the manifold . Also for the record there is what we call a 3/4 length extended tip EV14 that is a replacement Porka 997 injector . From memory they're about 630cc/min twin spray and the part number 0280 158 123 . A bit more expensive than most off the shelf EV14s . A .

There are some drillings in the Neo manifolds water passages but I can't remember where and I don't have one to look at ATM . A .

Some people OS are running those with the tip extending further into the inlet manifold . Been a while since I looked inside an RB26 manifold , if the standard injectors are recessed up tunnels like the Neo25s are then you could run a shorter lower hat and have the tip closer to the air stream in the manifold runners . Those 0280 158 040 injectors are supposed to have a 30 degree spray cone but it wouldn't be real good if it was spraying all over the inside of a recessed tunnel . The xT or extended tip EV14s are approx 13mm longer in the snout than the standard tip length ones . In a way its a pity that the 333/334 1600 odd cc version isn't available with the extended tip . Make life easier for those that need big "3/4 adapted" length injectors . A .

Sorry people bum steer . Standard the R34GTt injectors tips are not that close to the manifold face after all .

Yep , I think the 0280 158 333 is the Bosh numbered part for the 334 that was developed by ASNU . ASNU make their own spray plates up for these and 040s and market them as 1650s and 1050s . They've been popular with the R35 GTR mob OS , Just Jap advertises the 1050s with wire adapters for R35s .

Which 1400cc injector is that . Where you need to be a bit careful with advertised injector flow rates is the pressure that figure is quoted at . With returnless systems the regs seem to be set at 3/4/5 bar ( 44.1/58.8/73.5 psi ) so if the number seems a bit optimistic don't be surprised if the based pressure is 4 or 5 bar . That aside I'm curious to know what sort of power figures people are chasing when fitting injectors in the 1300 to 1650cc/min area .

Fine , re railing this topic . As has been mentioned fitting the shorty EV14s to the Rb25DET Neo is difficult to impossible depending on how close you want the injector tip to be to where Nissan has it . The OE Neo Turbo injector looks like a licence built EV6 injector but by Nippon Denso with the Japanese high guide connector sometimes called Denso or Sumitomo . These injectors are very close to the Bosch 3/4 length EV14 injector length wise . Now because the upper water log , bleeder feed actually , on the Neo manifold sits further out from the manifolds face AND the injector tip is closer to the manifold face - the injector hole or well is deeper than on R33 RB25 manifolds . Short EV14s are too short to seat/seal properly whilst having their electrical connector clear of the manifold casting . If you choose to make an adapter to sit the short EV14 higher in its well then there is no physical reason why this wouldn't work . The injector tip won't be where Nissans engineers intended it to be which would be my concern but hey - to each their own . All of this is only an issue if you limit your injector choice to shorty EV14s . I know unmodified injector choices are limited over 1000cc's .

These days we have better 1000ish cc unmodified injectors available , such as the 0280 158 040 , where in the past modified de capped ones were what was readily available . But yes if you have suitable pumps/filters/lines higher pressures then better designed injectors can get away with being a bit smaller - or less huge anyway .

Sorry , I should have mentioned that most late cars have "return less" fuel systems and run higher base fuel pressure . They don't run a fuel pressure regulator on the engine referencing off inlet manifold pressure . My understanding is that their reg is in the fuel tank just downstream of the pump , also pump speed is regulated by a PWM signal from the engine management system . The point I wanted to emphasise from the post above was quote : "My theory is that atomization with poorly working 1000cc at low pressure were spraying huge (in comparisons) droplets of fuel which had no chance to completely burn so I had to squirt more fuel than needed to reach proper AFRs. With original 298s, I went super rich after the swap indicating that fuel is burning more completely leaving very little oxygen so I had to subtract the fuel. " A .

Something different , Wiki injectors ! https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Fuel_injectors Also I found a larger version of the Ford GT500 EV14 twin spray/cone injector , this time its around the 630-660cc - so better than the R35 GTRs 570cc Denso injector . Its Part number 0280 158 298 . The Ford punters reckon they're virtually identical to the GT500s 0280 158 117 but with a higher flow rate . The feller in the following post has ideas that are similar to what I think , ie big poorly atomising injectors like unceremoniously de capped OE EV14s are not very exacting things . Quote . "There are no "new and original units" that spray the pattern 117/298 do. Anything approaching 1000cc from Bosch factory is either custom stuff (unaffordable) that could have what we need for spray pattern or generic stuff (still expensive!) that has straight spray pattern. I did my research. The trend to go with low pressure FPRs is purely due to, what you noticed yourself, fuel pump consideration and nothing else. That is not a factor here. It is a fact that higher pressure = better atomization and that equals less knock, better MPG and more complete burning which are all benefits. I even noticed that on my own car after running 1000cc and these, 1000cc at 3bar and these at 5.5bar. After some tuning (so that idle, low and medium loads see perfect trims) and changing nothing else, I had to lower KFLF table for WOT as I was running very rich with these vs old ones. My theory is that atomization with poorly working 1000cc at low pressure were spraying huge (in comparisons) droplets of fuel which had no chance to completely burn so I had to squirt more fuel than needed to reach proper AFRs. With original 298s, I went super rich after the swap indicating that fuel is burning more completely leaving very little oxygen so I had to subtract the fuel. Also look at what real race cars are running, nobody does 3 or 4 bars, they run as high fpr as possible for the above mentioned benefits. Ofc TFSI is the real deal, there is nothing like squirting at 120bar " Jamisons kicking in , Spud out .

It took some searching but I found some info on this injector , its Bosch EV14 0280 158 235 . Unmodified BTW . "Should" be a drop in upgrade for a modest RB25DET Neo engine , 3/4 length EV14 with the correct Denso high guide connector . From what I read it has a 9 hole diffuser plate and supposedly excellent atomisation . I guess if you wanted to run flex and aim for only 300-320 wheel wasps these could be the Neo ticket . https://www.bosch-motorsport-shop.com.au/731cc-min-ev14-injector~4312 http://www.bosch-automotive-catalog.com/en_GB/product-detail/-/product/0280158235 OE Audi Injector ? http://www.vehiclepartsdatabase.com/vehicles/all/audi/a4allroadestate/20tfsiquattro/cdnc/35027/fuelinjectors/bosch/0280158235 A .

Can we get you to measure the size of that water hole please Cheers A .

Bosch , and others , are making or finding ways to get better fuel atomisation all the time . It there wasn't a reason to do so they wouldn't bother . I suspect ID has gone down the road of the X type injectors because they knew the writing was on the wall . If you've searched you'll find that in some applications manufacturers and the aftermarket have gone back to two injectors per port and it isn't necessarily because they can't get enough fuel through one injector . Many moons ago Audi did it with Quatros and Cosworth did it on the RS500 Sierras . Later on manufacturers learned to mount injectors in different parts of the manifold to get the best atomisation over a wide air flow range . They didn't do these things to port fuel injected engines for kicks . As was mentioned elsewhere some injectors are using twin cone sprays and while its obviously driven by tight emissions levels it works for a reason , and it wouldn't if atomisation was RS . The fact that some of these engines perform well means there's oxygen in it and it works . Then some people got these cars and fitted higher flowing de capped injectors and wondered why they started worse had drivability issues and blew out huge clouds of unburnt fuel smoke . Exactly the same issues people were having 20-25 years ago after fitting larger than OE EV1s . Single pintle valve that didn't meter or atomise worth a wet fart at low pulse widths . Nowdays the wise are round filing the de capped injectors and using similar sized ones that atomise obviously better and are much easier to live with .

The ID people are getting hot under the collar because defending their de capped injectors is difficult when non modified or better developed versions are tested back to back with them - and give better results . My understanding is that ID was buying heaps of OE spec EV14s and de capping them for higher flow because this is very easy to do . Then they say they go to great lengths to match sets flow wise across the whole operating range . I think Bosch developed their injectors to work only with that diffuser plate . I also think that plate is the Bosch method of getting an intended spray pattern and atomisation , it seems logical that this plate also sets the ultimate flow rate for a given injector valve size and fuel rail pressure . Therefore if the diffuser plates are accurately made the flow rates should be very close to the same . Back to atomisation . I suspect that there are a lot of people out there using BIG de capped injectors and because of piss poor atomisation a lot of fuel is going through their engines in an unburnt state . Even in high power apps fuel has to be in a state where it will burn easily or much of it could be achieving zip - other than to carbon everything up . If the injectors can properly atomise fuel so it all burns then you have less waste and carbon gunge to clag things up . There could be a lot in this for turbocharged engines because they have disadvantages over NA in some areas . The static CR is generally low so getting decent torque and drivability at low air flows isn't easy . Throw in larger turbos and injectors and it often gets a bit weak low down . I know from my own tuning antics that getting AFRs right even low down and at idle can be easy , but an AFR meter isn't going to tell you how much unburnt fuel is going through the engine . Its the transients that are hard to impossible to get right , pretty obvious to me that fuel condensing on port walls is a big issue . If you can get the fuel to atomise properly then combustion efficiency has to improve and that has to mean higher cylinder pressures and more effective heat to excite the turbo with . Back to OE Bosch . From what I read the early LS V8s used EV14 injectors , can't quote flow rates atm but I think they may have been in the 3-500 cc/min range for the NA and supercharged versions . I wouldn't mind betting that these and the 3/4 length EV14 GT500 injectors were the base used for many early "high flowed circumcised" injectors because they were plentiful and cheap .

Anyway I looked into what people are using in XR6T engines and R35GTR engines because being later vehicles owners want more power and they want the drivability and reasonable consumption to go with it . Also both these engines have injectors loosely based on the Bosch EV6 format - similar to Neo RB25 and the 3/4 length EV14 . Initially the Ford and late Nissan people bought de capped (modified) EV14s because they were larger capacity and they fitted . They helped them make big power but the drivability suffered and they got RS consumption and cold starting issues . The GTR crowd didn't like the unburnt fuel soot all over the backs of their cars either , Ii didn't seem to matter where they got their modified OE injectors or what they paid for them . Anyway Bosch started making higher flowing EV14s and they have a diffuser plate on them obviously to break up the fuel spray and make them atomise the fuel better . To me its logical that highly atomised fuel will burn better and tends to be carried into the cylinders more easily . The worst case scenario I think is when the fuel dribbles as very low pulse widths and when it starts to spray the fuel droplets are too big and generally look for a port wall to run along . Most people realise that fuel going into a cylinder in the wrong state doesn't burn too well and often goes through the system as carbon soot or haze . There are some aftermarket mobs out there that take an OE EV14 and modify the diffuser plate for higher flow rather than remove it . I'm not certain but it sounds like the holes in the original diffuser plate are made with laser beams rather than drilling and this is how I think the manufacturer can finely control the number and shapes of the fuel sprays . I doubt Bosch ever intended EV14s to work as a single outlet and spray/atomise properly in that form . More recently the smarter injector mobs have been making their own laser cut diffuser plates and having them fitted on the end of a Bosch EV14 and the results have been quite good . I'm not going to mention the Companies doing this work because there have been some major internet wars going on between mobs that sell modified injectors and I'm not getting involved . You can read about this stuff on sites like GTRLife and you can read about the results that some of the better developed injectors give . They often aren't any bigger flow wise than their competitors but they sound like they give noticeably better overall results . The cars are said to start better and drive much more smoothly , one person said it felt like the car had lost weight . The carbon soot was much reduced and the fuel consumption improved noticeably . Obviously the fuel is atomising better and thereis better control of the low pulse width fueling . Just in case you're wondering this injector starts life as a Bosch EV14 040 , short for 0280 158 040 . It's an extended nose half length core which gets an adapter on the lower side to make it go where an EV6 or 3/4 length EV14 can go . The people modifying them have now gone to more and smaller holes in the diffuser than they did initially to get it to atomise even better than before . Interestingly the OE injectors in XR6T/Ford GT500/R35GTR have twin cone sprays but unfortunately the largest is t GTR at 570cc min . The twin sprays are intended to work with a four valve heads twin inlet ports and help the manufacturers pass the emissions and consumption requirements . The modified 040 is supposed to have a single hollow 30 degree cone spray and this seems to work well in R35GTRs . As more and more people realise that the circumcised injector can give lack luster results their days may be numbered . Thoughts ? Cheers A .

It seems everyone has or is jumping on the Bosch EV14 bandwagon and things are getting better for us in the aftermarket . These first turned up in OE apps because earlier injector styles were struggling to meet emissions and consumption targets set by various regulators . Not long after various mobs found out that if you removed the multi holed diffuser plate off the tip then they flowed a whole heap more . Result , cheap high flow injectors based on more modern cores than the older EV1 and EV6 types . The more modern core had lighter faster reacting parts and were electrically better for aftermarket engine management . You got all that reasonably easily but you also get a spray pattern that's supposed to be narrow and the droplets larger than Bosh would have liked it . Currently Bosch are making higher flowing versions of the EV14 and these all have diffuser plates similar to the OE ones . They are supposed to atomise the fuel far better than the de capped ones and they can also have multiple sprays and various cone angle sprays as well , it all depends on how they have the holes set up in that diffuser plate . Gotta run back later .