police

[Blackness]

Roy: agree, Police are there to do a job.

katohadamoto007: agree, police are people and you will have dicks as well.

The current system is crap. Enforcement will only do so much, a lot of people can still not drive (including performance car owners) whether they have been busted or not ....

A while ago my dad died as a passenger in a VL turbo. It was a single vehicle accident, young driver who previously had shit loads of fines, loss of licence etc ... I wish someone had taught to him how to take a corner properly instead of just thumping him with legislation. Consequently the driver's life and ours were a mess for a while... not to mention the drain on insurrance, legal stuff, etc

We need mandatory driver training, including at least one ride in traffic on a motorcycle to get people to look and the remove the illusion of safety "it won't happen to me" provides.

We should also a yearly/2 yearly mandatory refresher course.

my $2 (potential war has caused price inflation) anyway

[MotoX]

Blackness: sorry to hear about your dad.

just like u said i think everyone should do advance driver traning.

i know insurance companies subsadise them.

what pisses me off the most is, im 18 and buying a r33 gtst. (my hard earned money not parents) i cannot get cheap insurance, and see wankers driving skylines (no offence) who crash them (their fault), this makes our insurance skyrocket. i give shit to anybody that crashes if its their fault, i hate people that canot drive.

as most of u might know on the gold coast we have lots of "hoons" and atm theres a gold commodore cop car with a holden sticker on the back. this guy defects everybody and anybody for anything. and the Department of transport is gettting pissed of with them filling in the incorect papers and sending them to get their cars inspected, as they are booked out for a couple of months, if u get defected, u have to show them the cars been fixed, and took book it in takes 2months, so thats 2 months that u canont drive, my best mates jsut decided to sell his ute because he gets pulled over too much, he gets booked for such things as no carbon canister, and the ute runs on pure gas.

there are good cops out there.

these new confsication laws are also bullshit, they should be out there getting all the drunk drivers, instead of wasting their time on some guy doin a little chirpie to 2nd gear in his commodore (could be any other car) the mayors wife got done for drink driving, she got off the fine and stuff by saying she was on medication. that kind of stuff just pisses me off.

[MYGTST]

the only thing i will add to this discussion is

do the crime expect to do the time

if you have been speeding and you get booked dont cry about it

because you konow you were in the wrong

iv been booked for various things i know i was doing the wrong thing but hey shit happens i got booked

i still dont always follow the road laws by the letter

but thats a risk i take( yes irresponsible)

if your going to do illegal things on the road just be careful you dont kill or hurt someone else,(if you kill yourself you only have youself to blame)

if you get booked yes ITS YOUR FAULT

be more aware . look for cops before you do something silly

and for ****s sake stop crying about getting booked

its not the cops fault you were speeding but it is his job to book you

if you were a cop you would do the same

[CanberraR33]

Don't kill me for it, but I am actually applying to join the Federal Police at the moment. So as you can imagine I have been talking to quite a few of them.

Some interesting facts people may not know:

When an accident is "Caused by speed" it doesn't necesarily mean someone was exceeding the posted speed limit. If the accident investigation squad deem an 80km/h roads speed limit to be 60 km/h due to rain and the car that crashed was doing 65km/h (15 km/ below posted speed limit) then speed will probably be deamed as the cause.

The AFP is trying to get coppers to educate drivers rather than book drivers. So if ya get booked speeding in the ACT ya probably going to get a lecture on how long it takes to stop etc.

In Germany you have to do a heap of driver training, including defensive courses. It costs a lot to get your license. Germany has autobahns with no speed limit (in worse conditon then the Hume Hwy). Germany has a flat fine for speeding (about $100AUD) and no point system. Germany has something like 2 deaths a year on their roads (and a population heaps bigger than ours). Why? Germans are taught to drive, well! They predict when ppl are going to change lanes etc. Anyone who has been to Germany would no what I'm talking about. It's incredible to watch.

In regards to defects: some cops have attitude problems. Some I have spoken to have told me they love nothing more than pulling over a young kid in a done up car because the kid is a try hard. I think this is because a lot of the cops are jealous.

I agree you should try and make your car legal. The only problem is every department has their own oppinion on what that is! VERY confusing.

In my experience the best cops are the older ones. They have been around a while and know what they are doing. The kinda cops who in the old days if ya drank too much would have taken you home for your olds to sort out, not locked you up.

The worst cops are the young, probationaries. They are so proud of their new badge and powers that they wana bust everyone and anyone.

My 2 cents,

Learn to drive. You'd be amazed how many ppl think they are the shit and can't predict other drivers! I think advanced/defensive driving courses should be mandatory. I reckon if ya get busted for anything on ya Ps you should have to go do one.

Be nice to the cops. In the ACT (and I think most of Aus) the cops are allowed to make their own decision to book you or not. They use this rule for deciding who gets a ticket and who doesn't. The biggest decider is if the cop thinks the person will reoffend. If you are nice to the cop and show remorse then ya'll get a warning most of the time.

I've only ever been pulled up once and I actually didn't realise I was speeding. I thanked the cop for pulling me over and bringing it to my attention (I was on Ps at the time). The cop let me off and was heaps nice to me.

I think at the end of the day it depends on the cop that ya get and the mood they are in which kinda sucks. However I am a firm believer that cops should be allowed to use their discretion. It's worse when they have to arrest/fine for certain things.

Remember they are doing their jobs, to the best of their ability. If you don't like the laws, right to your local member of parliment, cause they set 'em!

If I do get to be a cop, I won't be pulling ppl over for driving a hotted up car. I'll be pulling up the car with the bald tyres and the clouds of black smoke pouring out of the exhaust. They are far more dangerous to other road uses!

Sorry to crap on so long. I just wanted to tell you all what I knew.

[katohadamoto007]

MYGTST - you got to be kidding!!! Just cause u don't follow the law to the letter doesn't mean that you should get booked and not even question it. Ever heard of "special circumstances"???

"if you have been speeding and you get booked dont cry about it

because you konow you were in the wrong"

A month after I got my p's i was turning right off a main road. Lights go orange. I think everyone's stopping. Commie comes through and cleans me up. Coppers tell me that they believe he was doing between 90 and 120 through a red light. They couldn't prove it, so I got booked. They tried booking me with neg driving, but knowing the rules, talked them to not making a right turn safely (less points, smaller fine).

You ever been booked when it wasn't even your fault?!!! Not every offence you will get booked with is going to be speeding. Ever been done for no seat belt?

In 1 of my previous posts, I mentioned getting booked for U-turn at a set of lights. I asked the copper after she had issued the fine "just out of interest, if it was a 45 yr old driving, would u have booked them?". She didn't answer the question and just walked off.

The shit that SOME (not all) coppers pull is ridiculous - and quite frankly, I have every right to be p!ssed off about it if I choose.

I agree with make sure what you do won't affect other ppl on or near the roads. I agree with, if I stuff up, I have to pay the consequences. I agree with if I get booked for doing something stupid, I should wear the penalty. But to be honest, I think you are just being naive. There is definately a prejudice against young drivers in sports cars, and I think it's about time that ppl took notice. It's not necessarily us that are causing the probs on the roads.

I drive aggressively. But I don't drive like a maniac - much. Driving aggresively has got me out of countless dangerous situations. But that doesn't mean that I should be targeted. Let's be realistic, I have a shit load of cash invested in my car - I'm not about to put it into a situation where something is likely to go wrong - most of the skyline (and other performance cars) drivers are probably in the same boat. We look after our cars. So why not give a little credit to the owners of such vehicles, and cut us a break. Not saying let us get away with stupid shit. But don't target us just cause we drive a fast car.

[R31Heaven]

Well this has created some good discusion and good points, as most on here say if you speed and get caught or any other stupid act that could cause injury or death to another driver wear the fine or penalty. The things I dont like is Police pulling you over on asumptions that you may have this or that under your bonnet, and spend the next 10 minutes trying to find things and as they checking the old Holden goes past blowing smoke or rust all over it but thay are left alone. All I am saying is if they are going to inforce EPA rules make sure they inforce them on all! not just modified car owners who cars are more and likley more road worthy than the average car.

[predator]

Their logic I guess is why have aftermarket gizmos, you're more likely to be speeding as it makes the car go faster. They raise they issue of "pollution" as an excuse when really the difference is going to be so negligable, and as you say there are plenty of old trucks or bombs driving around that surely put out more.

By the same logic, why produce a car with over 100kw ? And yet Holden keeps churning out 250kw cars, yet theirs is of course "much safer" and "cleaner" (I wouldn't even be sure of that myself).

[katohadamoto007]

Let's be realistic. They will always be clouding the issue of pulling you over.

BOV's (non-plumback ones) are illeagal right? Why? Pollution? Like you said Predator666 the difference is negligable. It's because it makes noise.

So why can trucks have BOV's and buses use compression braking? I'll tell you what, compression braking is at least 3 times the noise of my BOV......

All up, they just don't want ppl like us on the road cause they think we "cause accidents" apparently, are jealous of the cars that we drive, or think that we pollute the air with noise... BOV's stereo's etc.

There is, and most likely always will be a double standard. I was lucky enough to go on a porsche cruise (got to drive about 8 diff porsche's) to the hunter valley and back, and we didn't get harrassed once. And I'll tell you what - those porsche's were being pushed just as hard as any of us push our cars.... A copper saw 1 of the porsche's gunning it near the mooney mooney bridge and hooked a u-turn, then saw 9 other porsche's and just turned off. He knew what we were doing, and didn't even bother stopping us. Why? Pure and simple - double standards.

[Guest Dragon]

I must agree that there are some good cops out there. (And then there are some shockers!)

What gets my goat is that there are different rules in different states, concerning the same thing! No wonder it is confusing for some drivers.

Example.

In the ACT, you can do a U-Turn at ANY set of lights, UNLESS it says you can't!

But elsewhere in Australia, you CAN'T do a U-Turn at a set of lights unless there is a sigin that says you CAN do a U-Turn.

See my point?

When I was 18 (Some 12 years ago) I was in Sydney, lost, map was out of date (Hate those one way streets) I was going the wrong way, so did a U-Turn at a set of lights, no problem.

Got pulled over by a cop that was right behind me.

"Son" (Gawd I hate it when they call you that) "Did you know you did an illegal U-Turn back there?"

"Ermm, did I? There was no sign that said I couldn't do a U-Turn"

"Son" (Shudder) "It is an offence to do a U-Turn at ANY set of lights unless it says it is safe to do so"

"Really? Strange, because in the ACT handbook, it says you are allowed to do U-Turns at ANY set of lights unless it says otherwise!"

"If you can show me that, I'll let you go with a warning."

So I pulled out the ACT drivers handbook, and there in black and white it states that you can do a U-Turn at any set of lights unless stated otherwise.

I was let off with a warning!

Also, in January, I was down in Melbourne, driving back up to Brisbane, I was pulled over somewhere South of Benalla. I was driving a brand new Nissan X-trail at the time.

"Sir, do you know what speed you where doing?"

"Yes Officer, cruise control was set at 100km/h. I assume that since this is a flat section of road that I was indeed doing the indicated speed"

"Sir, you where noted by radar that your speed was 102.5 km/h. This is just a warning that in the State of Victoria you can be fined for doing 3 km/h over the limit!"

I was stunned!

I mean, FFS, 3km/h over the limit????? Are they kidding? Where is the 10% error factor? The speedo has 10km/h incriments, so how the hell can you tell 3km/h?

Then I got the speel that speed kills, blah blah blah. I did not have the heart to tell him that to pull me over, they had to speed, and that the day before, I was doing well over 240km/h on a race track, teaching Level 3 CAMS drivers high speed techniques.

To drive in Vic, you have to take your eyes off the road and constantly watch the speedo. No wonder Vic had the highest death rate on the roads!

Where NT, with NO speed limits (Out on the main highways. God bless NT roads) had the lowest death count! Funny that!

Sorry for the rant....My 2c worth. (GST Inc)

[EXIT]

Originally posted by CanberraR33

In Germany you have to do a heap of driver training, including defensive courses. It costs a lot to get your license. Germany has autobahns with no speed limit (in worse conditon then the Hume Hwy). Germany has a flat fine for speeding (about $100AUD) and no point system. Germany has something like 2 deaths a year on their roads (and a population heaps bigger than ours). Why? Germans are taught to drive, well! They predict when ppl are going to change lanes etc. Anyone who has been to Germany would no what I'm talking about. It's incredible to watch.

Hmmm... I'm not too sure where you get your facts from:

Autobahns in Germany have a speed limit of 130 in quite a lot of areas now (mainly built-up areas & near major turnpikes etc.) That didn't stop the Taxi I was in from going 180 though!

I'm not sure how bad the Hume is, but the Autobahns I was on were in excellent condition. Otherwise we wouldn't have been going 220 in a Porsche.

Traffic fines vary with the severity of the offence and their points system is quite elaborate:

- after losing 8 points you must attend a driver's refresher course.

- get 18 points and lose your license for 6 months!

Germany's road toll is (unfortunately) also higher than 2 people per year. Big accidents on the Autobahn's in winter can sometime claim over 10 people in one hit.

[CanberraR33]

I got my facts from my last trip to Germany in March 2001. I was staying in Munich and the autobahns that I went on had no speed limit unless the traffic/weather conditions were bad and then they posted a variable speed limit. The lowest I saw was 160 km/h. The people I was staying with told me about the flat fines and no points system, I don't know if it varies from provience to provience? When I went to Austria with them we sat on 250km/h in an S class Merc!

One of the Autobahns I went on had no crash barriers and a fair few pot holes.

2 deaths a year was an approximation, but you are right, when they do have crashes, they tend to be big ones. However the number of individual accidents in Germany would surely be a lot lower than Aus.

My observation was that drivers stuck to the 30km/h residential area speed limits and speed limits around builtup areas etc.

[SS8_Gohan]

It's not just cars that attract stupid police. Mate was walking home the other night, and he was rather maggoted, but not being an idiot, just walking. Cops come round the corner, must have spotted him up the street. Sped up the street, over the limit with no sirens or pretty lights. Jump out of the car, grab my friend, slam him up against the bonnet (TV style, no shit), put both arms behind his back, don't think they cuffed him. THEN, started asking questions about where he'd been, where he was going etc. This sort of prejudice towards young ppl, i think is getting out of control and is absolutely pointless.

The major crimes, murders/rapes etc are prodiminately adult related. I think they should worry more about those than busted young ppl for trivial things.

[SS8_Gohan]

hhahah, and to top it all off, as he was walking around the corner, now in his own street, ANOTHER cop car races up to him and does the EXACT same thing!!! He's real pissed off now and the cops radio into the other car to check the story the he gave them. They let him go... tell u what tho, he was not a happy camper!! :lol:

[EXIT]

Originally posted by CanberraR33

2 deaths a year was an approximation, but you are right, when they do have crashes, they tend to be big ones. However the number of individual accidents in Germany would surely be a lot lower than Aus.

My observation was that drivers stuck to the 30km/h residential area speed limits and speed limits around builtup areas etc.

Yeah, overall the driving standard over there is much higher than in Oz. If you want to go fast, just go on the Autobahn. People generally behave themselves in urban areas.

Getting your license over there is a LOT harder than here + the cars have to pass the TUV on a regular basis to be declared roadworthy. I think the TUV inspectors would have a heart attack if they saw some of the crap cars that drive around here!

[katohadamoto007]

I had a copper hold a spottie on me for over a minute at 2 am in the morn about a month ago while i was walking into my own house. I was coming home from work, in business clothes and I get harrassed. It's ridicuous. And I didn't get an apology either.

Fair enough, he's probably looking for a robber or something, but still, spotlighted on your own property. don't coppers realise the community don't see them as gestapo. we aren't afraid of them cause they have a badge. we know our rights. they want respect? how about showing us some common f#cking courtesy??

As far as I can tell: to coppers young ppl = crims. (or maybe that should be easy pickings???) it's a disgrace. how about get out there and pin drug dealers, rapists and murderers or drink drivers not young ppl coming home from work, the pub or drivers of performance cars?

[Merli]

Another pointless "Us vs. Them" thread about our police force.

Of course there is the odd case of police harassment by a dickhead officer who is having a bad day or just got his badge and wants to flex his newfound muscles...

But I'm willing to bet that 95% of the time, you were doing something stupid that warranted your being pulled over in the first place.

Not all police officers are dickheads. But a few are. Wow. I guess the same thing could be said about our "car enthusiast/hoon" category right?

[predator]

Its the laws that are ****ed... not the police officers (most of the time!).. Half the time it is the police off-duty who are doing exactly what they're meant to be protecting from, and yet because they've got a badge they get off scott-free. That is definite double standards and despicable. I didn't believe it myself, but now I know somebody who recently has become a police officer themselves and heard first hand what they get away with its disgusting.

You can't complain autobahns are any better than many in Australia. Just recently they upgraded the Monash Freeway near the city in Melbourne. Safe as houses (and the percentage of deaths that occur on freeways is minimal), and yet they've actually dropped the limit to 80km/hr and installed permanent cameras - and yet they just redid the road completely. So anything about the "condition of roads" is just rubbish.

Now tell me Merli your car is fully legal .. I don't think so. One day when you get pulled over, and the cop decides he's going to go through your car with a toothpick then maybe you will see differently.

[Merli]

Originally posted by predator666

Now tell me Merli your car is fully legal .. I don't think so. One day when you get pulled over, and the cop decides he's going to go through your car with a toothpick then maybe you will see differently.

Well... You don't know the first thing about me or my car.

My car is heavily, heavily modified. If a police officer pulls me over and pops the bonnet, chances are that I won't be driving away from the encounter if the officer is having a bad day or has a grudge against modified car owners.

Just because my car isn't doesn't conform to ADRs, it doesn't mean it's not safe. In fact, it has been meticulously modified and maintained, and is in immaculate condition. I'm actually very scared that I'll brake too quickly, causing the car behind me to run up my ass.

In any case, this is the risk that I take by having a car that doesn't conform to ADR rules and regulations. This is why I drive extremely sedately on the roads, as my friends will tell you. I very very seldom open her up on public roads. That's what the race track is for.

Quite simply it's dangerous for me to unleash all my power on public roads. Anything can happen from a car pulling out in front of me, to a kid running onto the street (if you're stupid enough to open her up in a residential area, which I see all the time). So it's a risk, everytime I give it a bit of gas, and the wastegate announces my presence to the surrounding 5 suburbs, and it's a risk I hardly ever take, but when I do, I'm willing to take the risk of getting my ass pounded by the police if they happen to catch me. I wouldn't whinge about it.

It's true what's been said earlier. Police can tell a decent driver a mile away. I pass by police cars everyday, and they haven't felt the need to pull me over and harass me as yet. Why? My car is VERY loud, and OBVIOUSLY modified, yet I haven't been harassed yet (in the past year I've had the car). Why? I'll tell you why.

Don't drive like a dickhead, and they'll most probably leave you alone.

[katohadamoto007]

you just made our point Merli -

"Don't drive like a dickhead, and they'll MOST PROBABLY leave you alone."

Most of the time I don't drive like a dickhead either, but that doesn't stop coppers from pulling me over frequently. Hell, I've been pulled over by a copper to ask what sort of exhaust I run! And are Hi-Tech mufflers any good?

I don't have a prob with coppers doing their job. I have a problem when they are just pricks about it. If a copper pulls me over, and pins me, but is polite about it - I won't complain.

[predator]

I just don't like the hypocritical angle, most of the time cops are big petrol heads, and that is one of the reasons they like doing their job. To go over an import just because they drive a holden at home (or their wife forces them for the "practicality" of a family car :lol:) and probably have some resentment over them is not a valid reason. That isn't always the case, but it can be.

I guess, like anything, it just takes enough dickheads and everybody's a suspect..