Aftermarket Baffled Sump For Rb25det?

[GTRgeoff]

Waste of effort if you aren't actually goin fast......eg running slicks to their full capacity.

RB's, unless modified trap a lot of oil up top so an extra litre is the go.

Don't waste your money Matt

[R31Nismoid]

My reason for bigger/baffeled sump is one of insurance, why spend 10g on a motors internals and not do your best to stop oil starvation and killing the motor (again).

Plus i have heard when using the N1 pump that you can actually empty the std sump very quickly.

Well thats the thing, i had a 8k motor, with N1 pump etc.

Just going on what i was informed by a reputable workshop... being they built the motor aswell, and probably wouldnt have wanted me back within a few months...

im inclided to trust thier judgement over my own and people's thoughts on the net in this instance

[Roy]

Good point about the extra oil and the crank cavitating it...but consider that when you are up it at the track, a lot of oil gets trapped in the head etc, so the reason for the extra bit of oil is to stop the oil pickup from running dry.

Am i right in assuming that RB20 and R25 sump and bottom end designs are fairly similar...i have never had any problems and i doubt you are using 8,300rpm...So, up to you.

Again, if you can afford to do it, absolutley do it. But i suspect its an engine out job to get one of the High Energy sumps in there.

Can someone else confirm that.

[silman]

Does anyone have the high energy sump installed and can give some feedback with before and after oil temps?

can anyone post some pictures of it installed?

I'm building an RB25 powered 180sx. Have just purchased a new N1 GTR Oil Pump, and want to know if i will require a larger sump, or could i get away with just a greddy oil cooler kit?

how much oil does a standard sump hold?

[R31Nismoid]

Im sure you'll be fine with a oil cooler dude.

If 300rwkw circuit RB25's are ok, you planning on making *much* over that?

[silman]

I think you'll find it's a matter of having oil at the pickup, not necessarily the volume of oil in the system. The higher volume of oil simply assists with total cooling, but doesn't solve the problem of the depth of the area where the pickup is. Since i plan to do some drifting with this setup, i'd like to here from anyone on here who is drifting a gts-t, or rb25 powered s13 in particular

Edited January 27, 2006 by silman

[GTRgeoff]

Im sure you'll be fine with a oil cooler dude.

If 300rwkw circuit RB25's are ok, you planning on making *much* over that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who has that? Even Denham detuned his but it's the corners that will be an issue if you can actually go that fast, not that drifters do anyway.........

An oil cooler will be heaps for a 25 unless you are on slicks.

[gimpyr33]

Last car I saw that did track work had baffles even in the rear diff. Enjoy bearing life geoff.

[R31Nismoid]

Who has that? Even Denham detuned his but it's the corners that will be an issue if you can actually go that fast, not that drifters do anyway.........

An oil cooler will be heaps for a 25 unless you are on slicks.

My 25 gone to Tazzie for a circuit car, will have a bigger turbie on it too that what i had for mmmooooore powah with a bit of luck

[GTRgeoff]

Last car I saw that did track work had baffles even in the rear diff. Enjoy bearing life geoff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahh I love it when an expert turns up.

The fastest cars doing circuit work with SAU Vic have none, and they are just fine. There is one track that seems to cause problems but the victims of EC turn 1 are reluctant to share their experiences.

So what do you know that we don't, since we are really just hacks. I must have wasted my time racing sports sedans and working for a V8SC team. I have seen more than just one car on the track on my 22 years of motorsport it seems, but must have missed something. Admittedly my U2LSS was dry sumped, but it was on slicks and a bit quicker than what we do in super sprints.

In fact, the most highly recommended workshop in Vic for Skylines (settle Ash!!), who is within 5 seconds a lap of V8SC in his street tyred GTR33 (only 15 seconds a lap faster that me and the bulk of the field) suggests they are not necessary, and the extra litre of oil is fine but an oil cooler a worthy fitment. Perhaps he also is wrong?

The primary issue with RB's is the quantity of oil that remains in the head, so on rebuilding a 25 some work needs to be done to reduce oil flow to the head and improve oil flow from the head to the sump. The extra litre does not contribute to cavitation by the crank on the track where rpms are high and oil is held in the head, especially on stocker bottom ends.

Ash, I have to admit I was hunting 300rwkw at one time, but decided instead to put the GTR34 TT's on the 25 to get a fat 260-280rwkw. Denhams problem was too much lag so I could exit corners in 3rd on the limit of traction, while he was stuck in 2nd and lighting up or in third was just waiting forever for the big snail to respond. Hopefully I'll have it sorted in the next month or so for a blast.

[R31Nismoid]

Geoff - cant say a lot about the new generation of my RB25 as its not for me to say. But the turbo is changed (as my old turbo is now on Tim/Phat_MR30's car)...

i'll say that the turbo is a custom RPM job, better than what i had all round without a doubt as i was looking at the option myself before i decided to sell it and go 26

[SteveL]

....and we all know what the definition of an expert is.....

gimpyr33 - rest assured that there are many, many reputable, championship winning engine builders/racers that 'waste their time' incorporating appropriate sump baffle systems [and, yes, I know Ben]. It is cheap insurance and, frankly, it is also chicken-feed compared to the mega-bucks being spent on engine 're-builds', etc by some on these forums (and others it must said). Personally I'd never take a car with a stock factory sump to a track other than to tour around, and I wouldn't recommend anyone else do otherwise. Adding an 'extra litre' is a band aid, at best.

[GTRgeoff]

Sounds good actually. The 26 is just so lazy down low that I prefer a well built 25 with the extra compression and response.

Just glad I build my own engines as the labour would be a killer, especially after the front turbine let go on a 10000km engine.

[R31Nismoid]

It would be cheap insurance if they actually suffered from starvation etc. which (as Geoff has said more than once) is not where the problem arises.

my 26 will have more down-low go than any RB25 trust me

[Roy]

  Personally I'd never take a car with a stock factory sump to a track other than to tour around, and I wouldn't recommend anyone else do otherwise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...so you think that goes for RB powered cars with RWD sumps as well? I cant say i have ever seen a RWD RB do a bearing at a track (with the exception of one of my RB20s, but that had nothing to do with not havign sump baffles:( )

Noone has answered whether it is an engine out job. If it is then i would be hesitant to do it if you owned a RWD RB. If you had the engine out and were buidlign up a big ho engine, then it makes sense, but the labour remove/fit just for a larger capacity sump with baffles ????

[GTRgeoff]

Just to clarify:

- if you are NOT driving/cornering hard on the track (AKA the originator of this thread and no offence Matt) then spending upward of $2K on fitting a baffled sump is of extremely limited value piece of mind/insurance wise.

- if your ARE driving hard OR you happen to have the engine out and you intend to do track then by all means fit the baffled sump or a dry sump.

As a matter of interest, since Roy asked, you can change the sump engine in but is a bit scary as you need a 2 post hoist and a crane and a gearbox jack. You drop the front wheels off, car up, crane the engine up as far as you can off the mounts, then drop the cross member on the gearbox jack. Even so, unless you remove the crossmember and power steering altogether you can only drop the sump so far so then you have to remove the oil pickup through the gap left before taking it right off, and it is a cow to put back in but drysump would be a snack if you picked one up at the right price. Engine out is almost a quick.

On a GTR you have to take off the gearbox to remove the rear bolts for the sumpso it's pretty much engine out anyway.

[GTRgeoff]

my 26 will have more down-low go than any RB25 trust me

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you gunna actually drive it??

I like the sound of it but mate, your record for going for top end power is really against you Tell me about it tomorrow.

[gimpyr33]

Go do the dogleg at oran park a few times.