R34 Gtt Speedo Dash Problem

[Booya]

Coil packs? what are they?

Part I - Background

What is a coil pack?

Thanks for asking. The coil pack replaces distributor caps on "new and improved" ignition system. Instead of having a rotor and distributor cap "distribute" the ignition spark to individual cylinders at the right time and order, the spark is controlled electronically though the electronic ignition system. The coil pack is where the actual electrical current (spark) is sent to each spark plug via the wires.

The pack is generally comprised of a metal base with a plastic top (insulates the metallic parts so the current is not immediately grounded).

The coil pack is located on the right side of the engine (look from the front) under the plastic manifold covers. Just follow the pretty spark plug wires to the end and they attach to the coil pack.

It seems that the VR6 coil packs (at least pre 98's) just suck. I am not sure if the plastic is not formulated properly, if the molding is not performed properly or if the design does not distribute stress/heat well but by listening to the problems people on this list have had, the coil pack is NOT a quality part. Either that or it is designed obsolescence, keeping the dealer stocked with easy, $500 repairs every 30,000 miles.

Part II - Diagnosis

If you have noticed that on cool, damp days or after driving in the rain (especially on the highway, especially behind cars/trucks) the engine is running rough and misfiring, chances are the coil pack has a crack(s).

When this happens, the "check engine light" WILL come on immediately, because the emissions just went to hell.

If possible, pull over and pop the hood ASAP. If it is a cracked coil pack you will notice (at least I did each time there was a problem):

a fairly loud "snapping" or "clicking" sound immediately followed by a rough spot in the idle.

visible sparks running along the coil pack, generally from the wire terminal (where the spark plug wires attach) towards the metal part of the coil pack. Each spark is tracing a water filled crack and grounding the spark to the engine block rather than travelling along the spark plug wire. Try to remember or draw the location of the sparks.

If you cannot pull over, or if you want to check later after the weather gets a bit nicer you can easily simulate rain. Get a plant spray bottle/mister and fill with clean water. Start up the engine and give the coil pack area a good misting with the bottle. It may take a few sprays to get the pack nice and wet. This should start the light show again. Try to remember where the crack(s) is or make a sketch.

You now know you have the dreaded cracked coil pack. But have no fear, there are options...

Part III - Repair Options

Take car to dealer, tell them the coil pack is bad. They will respond "that's nice but we will have to confirm" ($56.49). They will then call back several hours later saying "you have a bad coil pack" (duh) and that for just $350 in parts and $100 in labor we can put on a new one. So pony up $500.

Lucky for you, there are engineers out here who just can't stand it when a biased party tells me that an inferior part needs to be replaced with the same inferior part. So like all good men, especially engineers, I start to tinker. Leading to a "fix" that has worked for 11,000 miles so far - The $3.49 Epoxy Solution.

Part IV - The $3.49 Epoxy Solution Drive a different car to Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. and get a package of high strength, high temperature epoxy. I *think* the brand I used was "Poxy-Weld"? It is the classic twin tube syringe, silver in color with a cardboard packaging display that unfolded to give product information. It is made to repair metal, plastic, etc. with higher operating temperatures. It has Kevlar flakes to add strength. I think the one I used was rated to 250 or 350 degrees. It was like $3.49 for the tube.

In order to make the repair you will need:

torx wrenches or driver

allen (hex) wrenches or driver

damp rag

hair dryer

epoxy

12 hours (1 hour working, 11 hours waiting)

Coil pack removal. This is very easy. First remove the plastic manifold covers. This requires torx head wrenches/driver. IMPORTANT. Before trying to loosen the screws, bang the top of the wrench/driver with a hammer while the wrench/driver is on the screw. Aluminum tends to "corrode" quickly (look at the manifold) and slightly bond to itself. By hitting with a hammer, the bond is broken and the screws can be easily removed. I know this from experience (ie partially stripped screw heads). If you strip the screw heads, I used a slightly larger allen wrench and literally hammered it into the torx grooves. Of course you then need new screws ($12). Once the four screws are out, plastic covers come off easily. You can now see the whole coil pack.

Unplug the wire harness attached to the top of the coil pack and move it out of the way. If I remember right it has pinch clips on the side to unlock the harness. Unplug the spark plug wires. Make a diagram of which plug number goes where.

The coil pack is held to the engine block by four, long allen (hex) screws. I found a hex driver with an articulated joint made the removal easier. A socket wrench should also work. Unscrew and remove the pack. It is a bit heavier than you might think so be careful when removing the last two screws.

Take coil pack inside. Ignore the "you are not a mechanic" insults coming from the living room (be the ball Danny). Take off plastic cover on the top of the pack (just pop over the small clips). Wash off the coil pack with a damp cloth. If it is really dirty, a bit of Dawn can work wonders. Just make sure to wipe off the soap well. You will now want to dry the pack WELL with the hair dryer. I was probably a bit anal about it but I sat in front of the TV for like 20 minutes just drying the pack. Since there is no real way to tell if all the water is out of the cracks, I was conservative.

You are now ready for the epoxy. Mix a healthy amount is a small disposable container. I used a popsicle stick to mix and spread. Start applying a liberal coat of epoxy. The first time I did it, I only covered the places I had seen sparks. Of course about two weeks after the first fix, a new crack or one I had not seen developed so I did it again. This time I covered the entire plastic portion of the coil pack. Concentrate on the area between each terminal and the edge of the pack. No problem since. So either coat the cracked areas or just do the whole thing. I would recommend the whole thing. The epoxy tends to get a bit sticky so it may work best doing two batchings.

Set coil pack in a warm place to dry overnight. I did this in December so by a radiator worked well. Just don't put outside since it makes the curing take a lot longer.

Reinstall the next morning. I actually did this before work one day and it took all of about 10 minutes. Put plastic cover back on pack. Install pack with four hex bolts and reattach the wire harness. Plug in spark plug wires in SAME LOCATIONS. Install plastic manifold covers (I put some grease on the aluminum screws before installing to prevent locking).

Start car and she should be running like new. It will take at least 3 warm-up/cool-down cycles to reset the "check engine light" I hope this helps those interested. It has worked like a dream for me. And at 3.49 vs. 500.00 it is a no brainer to at least try it. Worst case you know how to install the pack and can just order the part from a mail order place (Adirondack, potter, etc.) saving the dealer rape. I would actually recommend doing this as preventative maintenance. It's cheap, easy and can same some significant bucks. If I ever HAVE to get a new pack I will do it before installing, just to reinforce it against cracks. Feel free to write back with any questions.

Edited March 6, 2006 by Booya

[ZERO]

has anyone ever had this problem and then changed coil packs and it was fine???

[666DAN]

Yes the R34 coil packs are complete bollocks, my last R34 had them die, first it was a miss at idle, then the light coming on, then I started losing cylinders and sounding like a WRX. They must have had an extremely bad run with the manufacture of certain lots. They CANNOT be repaired with any of the methods stated on the forums, once they die they die, it's heat related so the car can run fine basically until the engine is up to temp and heat-soaks them.

My current R34 is just starting to miss at idle, so I'm going to get some splitfires ASAP before I get the headache of dead cylinders that crop up at the worst of times.

[666DAN]

I actually put in some series II R33 packs and sorted the car out last time, but they don't fit properly as the bolt holes are not in line with the R34 head...still with them floating there it ran fine

[ZERO]

so your telling me you have r33 coil packs in there... and its not bolted onto the head either???

wouldnt it move around...

[666DAN]

Yeah the last car had R33 packs just sitting there...the bit that holds onto the spark plug seemed sufficient to stop them migrating around my engine bay

I'd advise getting some splitfires though, do it properly, not dodge-spec like my last car hahaha

[ZERO]

yeah i know what you mean...

so when you mean by when the lights start comming on then you lose a cyclinder and then sounds like a WRX...

when you say lose does it mean gone (broken) or just not working because of the coil packs?

cause if its that case the coil packs will break the cyclinder i think i will put the cooler on hold for just abit..

Edited March 7, 2006 by ZERO

[666DAN]

Sorry, by lose a cylinder I mean it becomes dead due to no spark...no real damage, but trying to drive on less than 6 cylinders isn't really advisable, you have a bad power ditributon on the crank, not to mention the cylinder bore being constantly washed free of oil by the unburnt fuel. And it sounds and drives like crap.

[ZERO]

i have noticed it punches like a dream when im at night or when its really cold in the morning...

but then after abit of driving when the temp reaches to 100C the lights turn on again...

and then i punch it it still goes but when i change gears it feels as if im pushing it hardcore...

how much are coil packs and wjere can i get them... dosent seem like the sponsor's sell them here...

i dont understand alot of ppl go through coil packs as i have heard but no sponsor sells them,...

funny that.....

[666DAN]

Hmm not sure who to buy through, do a search in the traders section see if anyone has them for a good price...you should be able to track some down for under $700 delivered

And are you sure you're getting 100C that sounds awful hot....

[ZERO]

sorry sorry i mean oil is at 100C

[latino_90]

Hi All

I seem to be having the problem as well but its not as bad as others describe, it will happen occasionally in the mornings when i do not let the car warm up, I sometimes start the car and drive after a few min the engine light pops up and then a few sec later the slip and tcs off light. It generally happens whilst driving and the engine will have a rough sound to it. When i stop at a traffic light or stop the car the rough engine sound goes away and the engine sounds fine however the lights stay on till i turn the car off.

If i let the car warm up for say 2 -3 min i do not get the lights coming on at all.

PS how much do spitfires cost?

[ZERO]

latino_90 you will see when you warm up the car for 2 - 3 mins and drive it you will still have the light come on abit later when you are driving like in 10 mins...

well this is for ma anyways... when i changed the spark plugs for the first time when i start the engine and i got abit happy when the light didnt pop up then when i took it for a drive it showed up again..

and same thing this morning when it was cold the lights didnt come on untill i drove it for abit when it pop up again.. like 666DAN generally comes on when the engine starts to warm up and the coil packs get hot..

anyways... the painful bit is that coil packs cost around $650 - $700 delivered..

if you find any cheap dont forget to let a fellow r34 lover a PM (me)

[CWest]

Yeah changing the coil packs out of a 34 is more difficult than changing them in a 33, so I doubt you can do it yourself like that article suggests.

Rather than using the Nissan ones which cost about 250 each you are best off getting the spitfire ones which are 650-700 like you have pointed out.

I have 5 old (in ok condition) coil packs and 1brand new coil pack for the R34 but since mine is a non-turbo I dont think you can use these ones.

[666DAN]

You can use the N/A ones, there is no difference between them. It's not overlly hard to replace them in an R34 as long as you're comfotable with removing some minor parts that sit over the recess where they sit.

[CWest]

Oh I see. The coil packs must be the same when you use genuine Nissan Parts then cause I was told that the Spit Fire ones are not the same.

Anyhow ZERO if you want you can have a set of 6 R34 Nissan coil packs of which one is faulty (dont know which one) and one Brand New One (cost about 250 from Nissan, I have the receipt) for 200 all up.

[ZERO]

thank you very much for the offer

but im going to upgrade the coil packs cause i have heard alot about split fire coils heard they give a nice PUNCH

[Booya]

Sorry, by lose a cylinder I mean it becomes dead due to no spark...no real damage, but trying to drive on less than 6 cylinders isn't really advisable, you have a bad power ditributon on the crank, not to mention the cylinder bore being constantly washed free of oil by the unburnt fuel. And it sounds and drives like crap.

Crap,

Well mine is roughly the same as all you guys.

When the car warms up, they come on and stay on until you turn of the car.

And since yesterday my car is running like a piece of crap. Sounds like its running on 5 cylinders. Yes the wrx noise.

Let me know if you guys find a place of where to get them.

Ill have a look around aswell.

[Booya]

splitfire $650 from nengun

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=64245

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...opic=32356&st=0

Some other site selling them

http://www.redlineperformance.co.nz/main.cfm?id=2&pcid=179

http://www.justjap.com/parts_nengine.htm

http://www.xspeed.com.au/shop/product_info...7cb18fd754c2bab

[ZERO]

sponsors have to be F*CKING crazy selling them for $1k

thats nuts... cheapest is Nengun for $650 thats more likt it... not $1,000