Piggy Back And Ecu Tuning Discussion

[QWK32]

hey everyone. just a silly question. ive got a seres 2 stag full 3 inch exhaust and a k&n panel filter. ive got a constant and getting worse miss that im chasing. but thats for another day. has anyone had any real experience with a power fc in a series 2 stag? just considering it as a tunable upgrade.

thanks

first of all if its an auto don't even worry about a PowerFC, the auto computer is apart of the standard ECU. this means you have to retain the stock ECU so the auto can function.

If its a manual then you shouldn't have a problem, just the same as a PowerFC in a manual R34 GT-T.

[wolverine]

the issue is that without the factory ecu the gear changes may be harsher and that will probably speed up the wear and tear on the auto box.

it will work and there are numerous threads from those that have done it and find it acceptable.

nevertheless there are a few newer options like Nistune are worth considering as they retain the factory ECU. forced induction has a bit of info on Nistune.

[dmonic1]

i had a chat to shaun at boostworks and he is hopefully going to fit a nistune board in my car. he just needs to check my ecu to see if it has the 40 pin connector in it. prettygood price to for fitted and tuned and once this mod is done to ur ecu it makes it fully programable via a laptop. i have a Series 2 auto by the way.

http://www.nistune.com/

[QWK32]

i had a chat to shaun at boostworks and he is hopefully going to fit a nistune board in my car. he just needs to check my ecu to see if it has the 40 pin connector in it. prettygood price to for fitted and tuned and once this mod is done to ur ecu it makes it fully programable via a laptop. i have a Series 2 auto by the way.

http://www.nistune.com/

this is what i have been waitng for. a while ago i heard they were trialing a new board for the r34 (S2 stagea is the sam ecu) but i haven't looked back into it since then. any idea on a rough price for the install and tune?

[DaveB]

Hmm this sounds interesting... I too have a S2 auto. Let us know how it goes!

[BigDirtyJase]

I was looking on Nistune and was looking at the prices and I saw this under type 4 boards

WC34 Stagea [JECS ECU only] (RB25DET)

Now is that for a S1 or a S2 Stagea (sorry I don't know what the difference is)??

[dmonic1]

there will most probably be a difference between a series 2 RS4 stagea and an ER34 skyline ecu due to the fact that the ER34 has traction control and an RS4 doesn't. on the other hand if u have a series 2 RSV (RWD) like i do which does have traction control the ecu's are the same. just lucky for me i guess. i cant remember the exact price i was quoted but it is alot less than a chip and being laptop programable i couldnt think of why anybody would go any other way if this is available to you.

with the series 1 stageas the option would probably be the same as the R33 which is to fit an R32 or Z32 ecu and have it fitted with a board. for some reason R33 ecu's are very specific with which ones work. it doesn't concern me so i havent looked into it much.

[DaveB]

I was looking on Nistune and was looking at the prices and I saw this under type 4 boards

WC34 Stagea [JECS ECU only] (RB25DET)

Now is that for a S1 or a S2 Stagea (sorry I don't know what the difference is)??

Aren't R34 ECU's JECS? Therefore, perhaps S2 Stageas are... I know JECS is printed on my ABS controller anyway lol

[M I K E]

there will most probably be a difference between a series 2 RS4 stagea and an ER34 skyline ecu due to the fact that the ER34 has traction control and an RS4 doesn't. on the other hand if u have a series 2 RSV (RWD) like i do which does have traction control the ecu's are the same. just lucky for me i guess. i cant remember the exact price i was quoted but it is alot less than a chip and being laptop programable i couldnt think of why anybody would go any other way if this is available to you.

with the series 1 stageas the option would probably be the same as the R33 which is to fit an R32 or Z32 ecu and have it fitted with a board. for some reason R33 ecu's are very specific with which ones work. it doesn't concern me so i havent looked into it much.

shit yeah! awesome news for me too then

i'll give jeff a call, hopefully get it booked in for a tune in the next few weeks

[Tangles]

best thing to do is open up the ECU and take photos of everything

then send it to nistune to determine if you can have it modded

I did this with my ecu, to Toshi, found I couldnt put a board in but the chip adapter and new tuned chip would be cost effective @ $600 anyway

with a touch up on the dyno I was happy with the end result.

higher RPM rev limiter

no speed limiter

smoth gear changes, heaps of power, and excessive fueling

timing was spot on

fuel is taken out via the fpr and safc

next tune in 1months time will max the injectors, but should have headroom due to the fpr and excessive fueling in the remapped ecu chip from Toshi

230kw is the tuners thoughts (poncams, gaskets, head porting, etc)

[BigDirtyJase]

I got a response from Matt at Nistune last night (only got it this morning cos I send from my work account). He told me to get the part numbers located on the sticker on the casing and send it to him and he will tell me if its the right one.

Having a chat with a couple of mates...they are going "get SAFC Neo". I pefer to get the Nistune as its tunable like a piggy back system but looks stock so it's not cop bait (all depending that my ECU is the correct one) but obviously if my ECU is not the right one...then something like the SAFC is a viable option

[DaveB]

I got a response from Matt at Nistune last night (only got it this morning cos I send from my work account). He told me to get the part numbers located on the sticker on the casing and send it to him and he will tell me if its the right one.

Having a chat with a couple of mates...they are going "get SAFC Neo". I pefer to get the Nistune as its tunable like a piggy back system but looks stock so it's not cop bait (all depending that my ECU is the correct one) but obviously if my ECU is not the right one...then something like the SAFC is a viable option

Hell yeah - reading the comments from Tangles has me convinced! Piggy-backs are a pretty compromised tune it seems, even if you can find an SITC... and probably not much cheaper than $600 all up. I wonder how much a full replacement board costs? If one of these can be made to fit for reasonable money... awesome.

Tangles I was especially glad to read that it hadn't stuffed the changes in your auto; that would seem to make this the "holy grail" of tunes for auto stagea owners (ie. 95% of us?!?); along with the auto shift logic do you get to keep ALL the other factory stuff the computer does, like A/C compressor cut at startup/high revs etc etc?

[QWK32]

yeah the remap option is the best way to go for us auto stagea owners.

but even if you were to go for a piggy back the Haltech interceptor/miniceptor is a good little unit. its like a SITC and SAFC in one.

[DaveB]

yeah the remap option is the best way to go for us auto stagea owners.

but even if you were to go for a piggy back the Haltech interceptor/miniceptor is a good little unit. its like a SITC and SAFC in one.

Cool, is that like the e-manage ultimate?

Here we go... here's a pic of a series 2 auto stagea ECU:

The text on it reads:

NISSAN TJ

23470 0V812

A56-K41 L14 0706

UNISIA JECS CORPORATION

JAPAN

So sounds like a JECS ecu? ie. Nistune type 4 board, "WC34 Stagea [JECS ECU only] (RB25DET)" ? ~$440AU

...that would be awesome if it allowed a laptop-tunable ECU. However I think 2 x "ROMulator"s would be needed and they are a bit more expensive (but only the tuner needs those)

Edited November 12, 2008 by DaveB

[StageaTypeS]

I am just about to get my computer fitted to my stagea S2 Type S Its a standard manual so I don't expect to have any of the dramas associated with the Autos. I still opted for an E-manage Ultimate though and I am going through Trent at URAS to get it tuned (He is the man in the know for all things e-manage if you search for emanage on here you will see he has a few threads)

There were a number of reasons I opted for the E-manage over a Power FC namely -

1. While Power FCS are good they are pretty old technology now.

2. Dollar for dollar I don't think there is anything else offering as much tunability and flexibility

3. I want to be able to easily return my car to standard if required.

4. I like the option of having multiple tuning maps and a computer interface that the e-manage provides.

I have additionally bought a field harness this plugs into the computer and then the e-manage harness is spliced into this leaving the std loom untouched so i shouldn't have any cop dramas as all is required is unplug the e-manage and plug the std harness back into the computer and the car is back as standard.

I will post up the result of the tune when it is done next weekend. The only mods to date are a Greddy Blow off valve, Greddy front mount, Greddy Pod Filter and a Fujitsubo 3 inch cat back and front pipe.

Justin

[QWK32]

Cool, is that like the e-manage ultimate?

not really, the emanage alters the injector and ignition output signal from the ecu. it can also alter the AFM input signal.

the SAFC, SITC and Haltech unit all alter the input signal of the AFM and CAS before it reaches the ecu, so what you need to still get smooth auto changes and reduced stress on the auto between changes. its just the haltech unit does both from the one unit (laptop tunable only) and you need to get both of the Apexi units to get the same result.

I'd say you'd be right in assuming that is the JECS model ecu. i'm 99% sure the R34 auto ecu is the same as the S2 Stagea model, and they have the board for the R34. i think they might have said 'JECS' model because they only say its for a WC34, not weather its a S1 or S2.

[DaveB]

not really, the emanage alters the injector and ignition output signal from the ecu. it can also alter the AFM input signal.

the SAFC, SITC and Haltech unit all alter the input signal of the AFM and CAS before it reaches the ecu, so what you need to still get smooth auto changes and reduced stress on the auto between changes. its just the haltech unit does both from the one unit (laptop tunable only) and you need to get both of the Apexi units to get the same result.

I'd say you'd be right in assuming that is the JECS model ecu. i'm 99% sure the R34 auto ecu is the same as the S2 Stagea model, and they have the board for the R34. i think they might have said 'JECS' model because they only say its for a WC34, not weather its a S1 or S2.

Ah, yes that would seem to make sense; ie. just another non-stagea community's way of distinguishing between series 1 and series 2 (never mind that they don't even have the same ENGINE lol).

[wolverine]

I am just about to get my computer fitted to my stagea S2 Type S Its a standard manual so I don't expect to have any of the dramas associated with the Autos. I still opted for an E-manage Ultimate though and I am going through Trent at URAS to get it tuned (He is the man in the know for all things e-manage if you search for emanage on here you will see he has a few threads)

There were a number of reasons I opted for the E-manage over a Power FC namely -

1. While Power FCS are good they are pretty old technology now.

2. Dollar for dollar I don't think there is anything else offering as much tunability and flexibility

3. I want to be able to easily return my car to standard if required.

4. I like the option of having multiple tuning maps and a computer interface that the e-manage provides.

I have additionally bought a field harness this plugs into the computer and then the e-manage harness is spliced into this leaving the std loom untouched so i shouldn't have any cop dramas as all is required is unplug the e-manage and plug the std harness back into the computer and the car is back as standard.

I will post up the result of the tune when it is done next weekend. The only mods to date are a Greddy Blow off valve, Greddy front mount, Greddy Pod Filter and a Fujitsubo 3 inch cat back and front pipe.

Justin

once you consider the cost of wiring the EMU in it is hard to see how it is cheaper or more tunable. there is only one relatively simple mod required to run a powerfc perfectly on the RS4S (ie. correct voltage feed to pin 51) but otherwise it is still plug and play and will start and run the car hot cold etc. there is otherwise no complex changes to the loom.

with the addition of a datalogit the powerfc is laptop tunable for $400-500 more less if you can hunt around. if you want multiple maps the you can save as many as you want which i guess would only be handy if using race fuels but then again the commander can tip in or pull out a few degrees across the whole map anyway in the case of emergencies.

trent will do a great job and the EMU will work really well but i i don't think the powerfc is inferior.

how much is it costing to get the EMU supplied and installed.

when you get it back you are going to be stoked. engine management with a little more boost will make it a whole lot of fun.

Edited November 12, 2008 by wolverine

[BigDirtyJase]

Cool, is that like the e-manage ultimate?

Here we go... here's a pic of a series 2 auto stagea ECU:

The text on it reads:

NISSAN TJ

23470 0V812

A56-K41 L14 0706

UNISIA JECS CORPORATION

JAPAN

So sounds like a JECS ecu? ie. Nistune type 4 board, "WC34 Stagea [JECS ECU only] (RB25DET)" ? ~$440AU

...that would be awesome if it allowed a laptop-tunable ECU. However I think 2 x "ROMulator"s would be needed and they are a bit more expensive (but only the tuner needs those)

I think we are in luck...I got this email from Matt at Nistune yesterday

If the ECU has the numbers like 23710-0V8__ then you are in luck... and we can do that with a Type 4 board. JECS is a good sign... means its not a Hitachi ECU

It's about $305 if you send your ECU to them and they supply and install the board and send it back to you and the single user software would cost extra (extra $135 i guess).

I think they say JECS ECU Only because I think that the S1 Stagea uses the R33 ECU which Nistune can't do unless you want to spend 1k for a Jap board from Dr. Drift (as I said i'm only assuming)

Edited November 12, 2008 by BigDirtyJase

[Tangles]

take a photo of the internals of the ecu and sent to nistune, just to be sure

great price tho

I can state also that all functions work with the Toshi ecu remap chip (big chip adapter plate soldered onto where small ecu tune chip was originally)