The "why I Wont Do A Manual Conversion" Thread

[AlexCim]

ok, well, so youve bought a stagea, but... there is something missing... something fun.....A CLUTCH!

Well, what are you going to do about it? GET A MANUAL CONVERSION, DUH! Well, now, lets think about it. A skyline costs 2k to convert, but a Stagea.. well here is all the information i found out while i was going about a manual conversion.

GEARBOX

Now, I knew that a GTR box would fit, but I also found out that a GTS4 box would fit too. R32 and R33 GTR boxes are the same in size, so both fit fine, the only difference is that there is better syncros, newer, stronger and more expensive (R33 GTR that is). Both Ska and Goldazilla are using 32 boxes and Cruiseliner is using a 33 GTR box. I would be looking to pay around 800 private sale/1300 wrecker for a 32 box with transfer case and shifter and 1000/1600 for a R33 box. OH, also, the R32 is a push and the R33 a pull box, so the correct clutch changes (i think i got that the right way around)

Also, AFAIK brad is using his auto gearbox crossmember, but this might also have to be changed

ECU

There are 3 ways to look at the ECU

1. Auto ecu's can run manual boxes but still have a stock ecu

2. Stagea plug DOES fit one PFC, but Mercury wouldnt tell me which one. I am 99.99% sure its a R34 GTT one as the plugs are very similar/same, BUT R33 non-neo has VVT thats on/off. Neo VVT is infinatly variable. So not sure how well the R34 ECU would run a non-neo. MM had to hardwire the A/C though, they dont give out much info, this just an aggregation of 6 months of searching/calling/investigating.

3. Cut the wire loom, hardwire the atessa (there is a thread about this) and then resolder all the wires to suit gtst manual ecu, run that and when you can afford to, get a pfc and off you go right off the bat.

CLUTCH ASSEMBLY

Naturally, as you are using a R32/R33 GTR box, you find the suitable clutch slave cylinder. AFAIK, the R33 GTST slave is the same as the R32 GTR slave as they are both push boxes and from similar era.

R33 GTST pedals will NOT bolt in, so you have to use either Stagea Autech pedals, or GTR pedals. Due to the design of the pedals, you then need to use a GTR master cylinder with the shorter pin on it.

To use a GTR master, you need to recess it into the firewall to clear the plenumn of the RB25. You will need to recess it into the firewall 40mm. To do this, think of it like this. Get a hole drill, cut a hole in the firewall, get a cylinder of pipe with an end cap on it, weld it in so the end is 40mm recessed, then install the master cyl in there. Now, you ask, wouldnt the engine get in the way? Yes, Yes it would. Same with the brake master and some other stuff....so what does that mean? It all has to come out/be moved. AFAIK, its easiest to move the engine as a whole out the way.

Clutch lines? Well, i am not sure, i never got that far into it. I am sure something fits but i woul get custom braided lines while i am at it.

INTERIOR

Several threads have discussed the purchase of this hardward. I think right now beastian is organizing an interior package for about $1000. Could possibly be more, so budget about 1.5k for it. A GTST handbrake fits, but needs some welding done to reinforce the tranny tunnel due to the high tension of the cable.

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Now, the reason that I didnt do this was

- Steve (in part dealer thread) and I had a 20 minute long discussion and he said he would do the conversion at home in 5 days (so not workshop labour rates) when he has done 4 before for a total cost of ~6,000 drive in drive out. Interior, box, parts, labour and all. + PFC cost, tune etc = ~7,500

- Auto gearbox will cost about maybe 400 bucks. A FULLY built auto box, new bands, wet clutchs, valve bodies, full manaual controller (Keas is developing a kit) should cost in the order of say 4-4.5k

- OF all the mods, what CANT you remove when you sell a car? A manual coversion. You can take your turbo, you can take wheels, exhaust etc and sell it all off and not loose so much. But a 6k manual conversion is 100% lost money.

- I am pretty sure most people that have autos and want to convert want to do it as at the time they were buying, manuals were just not around anywhere for sale. Since i bought my stagea 8 months ago, they have gone down in average price by about 2-3k. So, even without a conversion (that will also depreciate with the car) ive lost money

- So, if i save 2k on the gearbox, thats a GCG highflow ey? Or 2/3 Of a AP brake kit

- A manual gearbox will not make the car keep anywhere near what you think it will. That guy just bought an S2 manual (so not only manual but newer then your S1) for something like, 900,000Y FOB. So think, under 20k on road............again.........I paid 19k + duty etc

So really guys, its up to you, but unless i was going a full 600hp RB26 conversion like brad, I wouldnt bother with converting a RB25. I would just save my pennies and get a 260RS or get a loan, buy a S2 Manual and sell S1 to cover costs.

[Tangles]

The other option is to grow a foot in height, so that it'd make it virtually impossible to drive a manual Stagea - then you wouldnt be tempted into the conversion!

[3intheBack]

Alex, you display maturity beyond your years.

A nice bit of un-emotional research.

[AlexCim]

I thought that unlike all the other threads, i might highlight why a manual conversion may not be such a good idea.

stock manuals are rare yes, but they are sure as hell better value then a converted manual!

[GoldZilla]

Great thread Alex,

this is exactly why I bought my Stagea already converted. Even not having done too much research on the conversion, what I had found was that it would be a time- and labour-intensive proposition, not to mention expensive. I didn't have to worry about sourcing any expensive and rare interior parts either, as everything has already been sorted.

I couldn't handle buying an automatic car (call me a control freak), and I'm used to using the gears for engine braking, etc. We already have two automatic cars in our family, and no matter how good an auto will be, it will never provide the control that a manual box and clutch does.

It would have been nice to have Neo power and those clear tail lights, but they're minor issues overall...

Cheers,

Nick T.

[AlexCim]

Nick, mind me asking what a manualized s1 fetches these days?

[EGA41T]

lol just save yourself all the troubles and buy a Series 2 RS FOUR S

[GoldZilla]

I paid just over $18k in October last year.

[CruiseLiner]

come on its not impossible and im sure u can use a gts-t clutch master cylinder that doesnt have the vacuum booster and then use a gts-t pedal box/pedal to suit (i havent tried it but i bet 99% it would work fine, just abit harder clutch pedal) so its a simple 2" hole in the firewall and then modify the clutch box to suit

i still think 6k is a bloody lot for a conversion unless the motors coming out for him to cut the hole, etc.

each to their own

manuals rule by the way abit harsh on the driveline thats all :lol:

[Ska]

Well done Alex. Great info presented in an unbiased way.

The only reason I bought my Stagea was because it was manual. I hate auto/triptronic, always have and think I always will.

In the end I think the whole manual conversion will never be done again, because Alex and others are right, just go out and buy a RSFour S or a 260RS. The RSFour S option would save you money over a manual conversion any day I would think.

That said I love my manual

[AlexCim]

Steve told me that the GTST pedals dont bolt in, but the GTR's do.

Can anyone confirm there is a bolt pattern difference between them?

I was going to use GTST pedals, master, slave, lines, 32 GTR box and r33 gtst ecu plug/ecu with pfc, r33 gtst handbrake and interior to suit. But yeh, when i found out the pedals were wrong...i went screw it!

[darrinspencer]

come on its not impossible and im sure u can use a gts-t clutch master cylinder that doesnt have the vacuum booster and then use a gts-t pedal box/pedal to suit (i havent tried it but i bet 99% it would work fine, just abit harder clutch pedal) so its a simple 2" hole in the firewall and then modify the clutch box to suit

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why would the clutch be any harder/heavier than a R33GTST

The reason the R33 GTR uses a vac booster on the clutch master cyl is so you can use a heavy clutch behind a higher power RB26 esp whem modified

We only have low powered Rb25

Alex

Do not believe everything Steve tells you, he is full of alot of shi......

[Terminal]

Beastian has done some research into the Master cylinder issue. the RSFour-S uses the R34 GTT master and slave, and they're a bolt in job. the Series 1 has the resesses set in the firewall, you just need to cut the 2" hole as stated above. there is no need for a vacuum booster since the RSFour-S doesn't use one. The slave then needs to be setup for the gearbox, being either R33GTR or R32GTR.

If the master being used is for a GTST/GTT i don't see why a GTR pedal would be necessary. Maybe the reason for the Engine Out option is for a vacuum booster so you can run a harder clutch for a GTR.

[timmmay]

the guy i'm gettin my stagea through said he works with someone who can do a manual conversion on a stagea for $3k...since i'm only paying $12k + duty for the car, i'm seriously thinking about it!

[AMS]

the guy i'm gettin my stagea through said he works with someone who can do a manual conversion on a stagea for $3k...since i'm only paying $12k + duty for the car, i'm seriously thinking about it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could you get us some more info?

[darrinspencer]

Just spoke to Nissan

The GTST and GTR have different part numbers for the clutch pedal

Also just spoke to another parts importer mate.

He has just bought a container load of engines, and is pretty sure he has 2 Stagea Neo engines complete with manual gearboxes.

Will find out next week for sure.

If the you use a R33 GTR master cylinder and it hits the inlet plenum, instead of removing the whole engine, couldn't you just remove the top half the inlet plenum to get access?

I know Steve said the engine needs to come out, but he would be just trying to justify his $6000 cost (I know how he works)

[CruiseLiner]

the pedal will be the same as a gts-t without the vacuum assistance master like the gtr's, but not a real big issue anyway. and the pedal box doesnt bolt in anyway at all, its gotta be modified no matter what as their aint anything to bolt it to without making new brackets off the pedal box, but its simple as to mount it.

anything can fit anything (it helps having a welder and a person who can weld at home all the time for assistance though )

[timmmay]

Could you get us some more info?

email sent, just waiting a reply

[timmmay]

ok so i got the response...turns out this guy can supply parts for $3k, but he has another contact who he thinks can do a better deal. Call Steve @ STZ 07 3630 4455 (not sure if this is the steve mentioned in the spare parts thread).

[AMS]

So that includes interior parts etc?