The "why I Wont Do A Manual Conversion" Thread

[AlexCim]

This is what it would have cost me

Pedals $400

Master/Slave/Lines $400

GB $1500

Interior $1500

So thats about $4000 in parts + stuff goes wrong always

THEN

PFC 1k

ECU/Plug 300

So thats 5500 in parts + 1000-1500 labour = 7k

Look,I am not saying its rubbish to do it. But if you get the car cheap enough do it. Me, i paid 19k 8 months ago, so for me its just no justified is all when goldzilla paid 18k for his converted one....i would loose money before i began!

But just dont think its like a skyline, cheap interior parts, easy to mount everything, heaps of parts etc.

[timmmay]

not 100% sure....i'll prolly give the guy a call later and suss it out

Edited February 16, 2006 by timmmay

[Mr_RS4]

Well I have been looking at the Auctions at Prestige Motorsport and there are a handful of manual series II's there starting bids below 580,000 yen hell there are even 260RS's with starting bids of 900,000 yen all of which are grade 4 or higher. So now I'm stuck in between a rock and a hard place. I love the stagea I've just bought not 3 weeks ago, perfect condition, dayz kit, lots of things allready done to it. But I A: am not a big fan of auto's and B: hate the fuel economy with the auto. I could sell it again (but I really don't want to) and import a series II manual but probably with no where near the amount that I already have done on my series 1. Or then I thought.....why not kill two birds with one stone. Buy a complete R32 GTR front cut, sell the RB25, box, computer and anything else that I can to make up for some of the cost. About $6000 depending where you go. Don't know how many have considered this option. However I don't know the ease of fitting the RB26 into the Stagea but at least with a front cut you have everything you need (inc front brakes too) and you can also sell what you don't use from the front cut so you will make up some of your money.

Edited February 16, 2006 by Mr_RS4

[AlexCim]

Well, thats the other thing i was thinking of. Might as well do an engine conversion at the same time as manual conversion, would be the best thing to do.

However, the car is still off the road a long time and you have a 15 year old engine....

[Mr_RS4]

The car being off the road doent bother me so much but the age of the motor does. I suppose a lot of the places selling front cuts these days will actually start them up so you can hear them running and they also offer a warranty, what the conditions are is a different matter. I wouldn't be modifying the RB26 setup too much anyway. I would be happy with that. Was there a tread that Cruiseliner did about his RB26 conversion or are there any threads covering this. I did a search but didn't find anything.

[AlexCim]

Well yes, but i would say that 95% of stagea drivers the stagea is the daily car, so being off the road for 1 month getting a conversion is a big ask...well... i know it is for me.

Even 1 week for a manual conversion was a pretty big ask....

I think as with all other cars, we are working out here that its best to just get a factory manual...will take a little more waiting, but it will happend.

[Terminal]

I'm lucky, i'm getting my brothers' Chaser and R33 for a whle, so i'll have a few cars spare while i'm getting the conversion done. means i can wait a bit longer and get it done right. My mechanic wants to do it well because he's thinking of getting one after he sells his GT Forrester

[CruiseLiner]

The car being off the road doent bother me so much but the age of the motor does. I suppose a lot of the places selling front cuts these days will actually start them up so you can hear them running and they also offer a warranty, what the conditions are is a different matter. I wouldn't be modifying the RB26 setup too much anyway. I would be happy with that. Was there a tread that Cruiseliner did about his RB26 conversion or are there any threads covering this. I did a search but didn't find  anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

just watch the r32 and even r33 rb26 engines, they dont seem to last long, and rebuilds are around 5k minimum if it starts losing compression (very very common on r32's especially cause of the high km's). i'd be either going a rb30 bottom end and 25 head or something for the same cost and u know the engine is perfect condition as its brand new.

26 is well well worth it though, and cant beat the revs the 26 pulls compared to the other rb engines

my first nickname on here was RB26VL when i did the conversion so try searching i may have some mentioned some good info, and then i was under the name STAGEZILLA, and now this (thanx to the local w.a moderators B) )

not very difficult conversion at all, and i have a bad memory and cant remember everything that had to be changed etc as it was about 18 months ago now, and ive done diff conversions and a rebuild in the meantime, so my minds abit scattered

ask the questions and ill answer them

cheers

Brad

[Mr_RS4]

i'm just looking at all my options atm. I would really love a manual and an RB26 conversion would be great too. I mean the easy way out would be to sell my current stagea and buy a series 2 but I really don't want to do that. And I figure that a front cut would have everything I need. Would i be able to use the GTR ecu and would I need to do anything to the ATTESSA system.

[Tangles]

Yah - front cut is the go - but budget say 10-12k...... just in case. ie, 15yr old engine, rebuild, etc etc.

BUT - nothing wrong with the auto. It does its job, and I am SO over a manual now, just aint needed in full-on city traffic Mon-Fri.

Then again I cant remeber the last time I could drive a manual, Im even too blody big to drive a manual-landcruiser properly - never enough leg room.

Meh, bloody BFG's.

[CruiseLiner]

i'm just looking at all my options atm. I would really love a manual and an RB26 conversion would be great too. I mean the easy way out would be to sell my current stagea and buy a series 2 but I really don't want to do that. And I figure that a front cut would have everything I need. Would i be able to use the GTR ecu and would I need to do anything to the ATTESSA system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes u would use the gtr ecu, and a gtr wiring harness, just need to untape the stagea engine harness and pull out some of the wires running to the front headlights, passenger side gaurd indicator, etc to make everything work, and the attessa im not 100% sure about to be honest, im still not 100% sure mine is working correctly with the autronics smc ecu i have and how the guy hooked it up, and having no torque split gauge its hard to tell for sure.

attessa only has 3 wires from the ecu anyway, throttle signal +, throttle signal -, and TPS i think are the 3.

running the gtr ecu will make it soo much easier (and cheaper) to setup.

[Mr_RS4]

hmmm almost seems like its time to start saving. Very tempting. Plus I would do the GTR rear end while I was at it so I would almost be able to most of the Stagea driveline, engine, ecu etc. Would make some of the money back or pay for anything extra. What about the front diff would I be able to swap all of that out of the front cut. I'm not sure here but with fitting the GTR box, front and rear diff / shafts etc I would basically have the entire GTR driveline. Could I use the ATTESSA computer from the GTR or use keep the Stagea one. At least then I could still use the simle fuse pull for RWD. What model RB26 did you use CruiseLiner

[Terminal]

Why not just get an Autech, that's exactly what they did to an RS4, plus some extra added chassis stiffening, suspension modifications and the computer is already set up. they're coming in around $35k these days, if you sell your stagea it'll only be about $20k extra on top of that, which is probably close to what you'll pay for the conversion

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

I would say save for the 260, they are a fantastic car to drive and it is so easy to get good hp out of. Mine has a boost controller, pods, hks dumps, nismo front pipe (still running std exh) and i got 215awkw. Ant this is in Darwin where it is frickin hot. I have a pfc going in soon which should get me to around the 240awkw.

I do have an R32 gtr front cut for sale if you wanted to go down the convo route.

[CruiseLiner]

I would say save for the 260, they are a fantastic car to drive and it is so easy to get good hp out of. Mine has a boost controller, pods, hks dumps, nismo front pipe (still running std exh) and i got 215awkw. Ant this is in Darwin where it is frickin hot. I have a pfc going in soon which should get me to around the 240awkw.

I do have an R32 gtr front cut for sale if you wanted to go down the convo route.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

u and terminal make a very valid point, and u are looking at the conversion costing around 10-12k plus the diff as well (another 1.5-2k) and thats alomst 15k, and say 18-20k for your stagea is 35k, and its still not a geuine 260rs and its alot of work doin it all if its available already done for around the same costs.

i only did mine cause i had the 26 from my previous car otherwise i woulda went 260rs straight out, and i didnt realise the rear diff and axles r weak as piss, and remember the brakes r useless too, so even r23 4 spots aint gonna be too crash hot, so brembos or ap racing,etc is another 3K or more.

so i'd be thinking 260rs if u gonna go spend $15k on yours.

sometimes its just easier and smarter to sell up what you got and start again.

cheers

Brad

p.s. RBNT did u get your 260rs stagea from perth autowholesale? i remember someone saying it went to darwin or somewhere like that.

[Mr_RS4]

Or just settle for a series II manual....will have to think about this. Now as much as I love the Stagea i've just bought I am starting to kick my self for not thinking about importing a series II manual. Or just live with the auto. AlexCim does make a good point about the manual conversion. $6k just for a manual is too much, even if you could find somewhere to do the work cheaper than he has been quoted your not going to get all the parts you need including interior bits for under say $4000 inc clutch etc. So even if someone would do it for $1000 labour then your still looking at $5000 and I can't see it getting much cheaper than that. At first I was farily happy to go back to an Auto but not sure now. Plus you get the Neo version with the Series II. Does anyone here have the tiptronic series II. How do they preform just out of curiosity.

[AlexCim]

And now everyone is understanding why i started this thread ey?

The adv of a 260rs is not only is it manual, but the 26 is sooooo easy to get power out of. Spend 5k on a 260rs as SK explained and you can get 250awkw from the sucker...and manual.....and body kit/suspension/interior not needing chaning....

I think ill mod my 25 to around 220-230, make the auto a bit stronger, keep it for a few years, then just get a 260rs when they are around 30k...

[Tangles]

AC that sounds like the plan.....

IF I can ever save some dosh, Id grab a RS260 next (sell the wifes Daewoo), so we'd have the Series 1 RS4 auto for when the knee is sore, and the Series 1 RS260 for more 'spirited' driving.

Two Stagea's, I can only dream, right? Wrong..... lol if DS can then so can I!!!

[darrinspencer]

Two Stagea's, I can only dream, right? Wrong..... lol if DS can then so can I!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He who dies with the most debt wins!

I am still not convinced

Parts Manual

Gearbox $1000

Interior New $900 (thats what it has cost Beastin)

New clutch $530 good for 300rwkw

s/hand flywheel $100

Pedal, master slave and line r33 gtst $400

R33 handbrake $50

Thats $2980

Plus any extra's maybe $300-500

I can do all the labour myself which is a bonus

Or add $1000 for labour

Computer does not need to be changed

Auto option

Rebuild as Alex quoted $4500 (issume this includes fitting in the car aswell?)

Resale

Convert the car back to auto, sell the manual conversion for $2500

or

Pull the rebuilt auto out which is now s/hand sell for maybe $2000-2500

Computer

Manual option you can now fit a Power FC better tuning

Auto option you are stuck with the factory computer and a piggyback computer which will cost approx the same as fitting a Power Fc to a manual.

So the numbers are very similar, but the benfits for a manual are greater

Alex

You were worried about wasting your money and not getting it back

Do not modifiy your car, that is the only was to loose the minimum when you sell it.

Anyone want to buy my tiptronic anchor

[HARDCORE]

ok, well, so youve bought a stagea, but... there is something missing... something fun.....A CLUTCH!

Well, what are you going to do about it? GET A MANUAL CONVERSION, DUH! Well, now, lets think about it. A skyline costs 2k to convert, but a Stagea.. well here is all the information i found out while i was going about a manual conversion.

GEARBOX

Now, I knew that a GTR box would fit, but I also found out that a GTS4 box would fit too. R32 and R33 GTR boxes are the same in size, so both fit fine, the only difference is that there is better syncros, newer, stronger and more expensive (R33 GTR that is). Both Ska and Goldazilla are using 32 boxes and Cruiseliner is using a 33 GTR box. I would be looking to pay around 800 private sale/1300 wrecker for a 32 box with transfer case and shifter and 1000/1600 for a R33 box. OH, also, the R32 is a push and the R33 a pull box, so the correct clutch changes (i think i got that the right way around)

Also, AFAIK brad is using his auto gearbox crossmember, but this might also have to be changed

ECU

There are 3 ways to look at the ECU

1. Auto ecu's can run manual boxes but still have a stock ecu

2. Stagea plug DOES fit one PFC, but Mercury wouldnt tell me which one. I am 99.99% sure its a R34 GTT one as the plugs are very similar/same, BUT R33 non-neo has VVT thats on/off. Neo VVT is infinatly variable. So not sure how well the R34 ECU would run a non-neo. MM had to hardwire the A/C though, they dont give out much info, this just an aggregation of 6 months of searching/calling/investigating.

3. Cut the wire loom, hardwire the atessa (there is a thread about this) and then resolder all the wires to suit gtst manual ecu, run that and when you can afford to, get a pfc and off you go right off the bat.

CLUTCH ASSEMBLY

Naturally, as you are using a R32/R33 GTR box, you find the suitable clutch slave cylinder. AFAIK, the R33 GTST slave is the same as the R32 GTR slave as they are both push boxes and from similar era.

R33 GTST pedals will NOT bolt in, so you have to use either Stagea Autech pedals, or GTR pedals. Due to the design of the pedals, you then need to use a GTR master cylinder with the shorter pin on it.

To use a GTR master, you need to recess it into the firewall to clear the plenumn of the RB25. You will need to recess it into the firewall 40mm. To do this, think of it like this. Get a hole drill, cut a hole in the firewall, get a cylinder of pipe with an end cap on it, weld it in so the end is 40mm recessed, then install the master cyl in there. Now, you ask, wouldnt the engine get in the way? Yes, Yes it would. Same with the brake master and some other stuff....so what does that mean? It all has to come out/be moved. AFAIK, its easiest to move the engine as a whole out the way.

Clutch lines? Well, i am not sure, i never got that far into it. I am sure something fits but i woul get custom braided lines while i am at it.

INTERIOR

Several threads have discussed the purchase of this hardward. I think right now beastian is organizing an interior package for about $1000. Could possibly be more, so budget about 1.5k for it. A GTST handbrake fits, but needs some welding done to reinforce the tranny tunnel due to the high tension of the cable.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, the reason that I didnt do this was

- Steve (in part dealer thread) and I had a 20 minute long discussion and he said he would do the conversion at home in 5 days (so not workshop labour rates) when he has done 4 before for a total cost of ~6,000 drive in drive out. Interior, box, parts, labour and all. + PFC cost, tune etc = ~7,500

- Auto gearbox will cost about maybe 400 bucks. A FULLY built auto box, new bands, wet clutchs, valve bodies, full manaual controller (Keas is developing a kit) should cost in the order of say 4-4.5k

- OF all the mods, what CANT you remove when you sell a car? A manual coversion. You can take your turbo, you can take wheels, exhaust etc and sell it all off and not loose so much. But a 6k manual conversion is 100% lost money.

- I am pretty sure most people that have autos and want to convert want to do it as at the time they were buying, manuals were just not around anywhere for sale. Since i bought my stagea 8 months ago, they have gone down in average price by about 2-3k. So, even without a conversion (that will also depreciate with the car) ive lost money

- So, if i save 2k on the gearbox, thats a GCG highflow ey? Or 2/3 Of a AP brake kit

- A manual gearbox will not make the car keep anywhere near what you think it will. That guy just bought an S2 manual (so not only manual but newer then your S1) for something like, 900,000Y FOB. So think, under 20k on road............again.........I paid 19k + duty etc

So really guys, its up to you, but unless i was going a full 600hp RB26 conversion like brad, I wouldnt bother with converting a RB25. I would just save my pennies and get a 260RS or get a loan, buy a S2 Manual and sell S1 to cover costs.

$6000 for a manual conversion???I paid $3500,with 33 box new console new clutch parts and labour,It pays to shop around.