Australian Drivers

[ARTZ]

frustrating when people on highways match a cop cars speed.. i.e 100/km zone, cops doing 90 or less so everyone else does 90 or less... f*ck that

SOOOOOOOOO FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FullBoooost]

SOOOOOOOOO FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

haha it makes me laugh too, like is everyone so scared to drive the limit with cops around?

[brizzy_rocker]

ive only been driving here for a few months, u guys complain about roads and drivers here?

go to Qatar, one of the richest countries per capita in the world, probably a bit bigger than brisbane, you would reckon with all that oil money they would have better roads and better driving programs, but they dont, one of the highest rates of road related deaths per capita as well,

a couple of months ago i heard the minister of road saftey died when 2 hoons were steet racing and somehow managed to sandwich him,

imo it comes down to ignorance of road rules and the thinking of drivers who think they are F1 drivers and can do pretty much whatever they want, i think the situaion would improve with more driver oriented driving programs like they have in finland or some european country i cant relly remeber, but they teach you how to drive is a whole variety of situations and as part of getting your license you have to learn advanced driving techniques that you would have to pay to learn here,

at the end of the day, road deaths will occur no matter what, however the road toll can be decreased by introducing mentioned measures.

also those who complain you need more drag racing/drifting facilities etc once again atleast you do have them here, i find no shortage of them here in qld and im pretty sure thats the case in other states as well unless your living in sum village in NT,

instead of the negative thinking and complaining, think of ways that you can yourself make a change, by driving safer by any means possible, and always remeber people have it alot worse in other countries around a world, Australia is great nation but it has its problems like every other country. a driver isnt bad because of where hes from or his ethnicity, theyr bad because of how they act and how they percieve and judge themselves as good drivers when sometimes thats clearly not the case.

my 2 cents anyway

Cheers

[sneakey pete]

SO your braking with the clutch out Is it in gear as well??

Mate, we're talking about the "oh shit a cow just stepped onto the road" emergency braking here. I've always thought slamming on the brakes and not putting the clutch in, until the car is about to stall of course, would be better than putting the clutch in instantly and slamming on the brakes.

[bozodos]

yeah slightly, gearing down is best, but at least with the clutch out at least there's engine momentum to slow you down too.

[brothersrice]

Asian drivers are worser than Australian drivers. Most of the people do not have the idea of lane driving, they just want to overtake the car ahead of their's at any cost..,most of them are in a hurry most of the time..road conditions are horrible..its horrible experience driving in asia !

http://www.brothersrice.com.au

[bozodos]

brothersrice, pls stop spamming your website, other people have to pay to advertise here

[ARTZ]

Mate, we're talking about the "oh shit a cow just stepped onto the road" emergency braking here. I've always thought slamming on the brakes and not putting the clutch in, until the car is about to stall of course, would be better than putting the clutch in instantly and slamming on the brakes.

I dunno mate, but everytime my right foot moves so does my left, ok sometime i might brake a little and not need to clutch but that would only be to wash a little speed off for a corner, not to stop..Even then though i would probably clutch a little to bring the revs back up for exiting

so you are trying to slow a car that still has power going to the wheels, doesnt it make sense that it would brake quiker if it wasnt trying to drive...

[bozodos]

yeah but sitting there with the clutch in means that there's no engine braking being used at all, why don't you try putting your car in neutral and stop using brakes alone, then do it with it in 3rd (until it starts to cough lol)

[Daewoo]

I dunno mate, but everytime my right foot moves so does my left, ok sometime i might brake a little and not need to clutch but that would only be to wash a little speed off for a corner, not to stop..Even then though i would probably clutch a little to bring the revs back up for exiting

so you are trying to slow a car that still has power going to the wheels, doesnt it make sense that it would brake quiker if it wasnt trying to drive...

Sorry, but in a thread about how crap Australian drivers are, you are showing part of the reason why we are so crap,no one ever taught you to drive properly... even in top gear, no throttle means the compression of the engine is helping to slow the car... and fanning the clutch is for motorbikes, not for cars...

Australian drivers are crap... our roads are crap, we try to cover large distances in short time, and we rely on a speed sign to tell us what is safe...

But also, you need to distinguish between generally crap driving, like not watching the sequence of the traffic lights, pushing in, driving too slow, and unsafe driving, like not being able to stay on your side of the road, driving drunk, or driving fatigued...

I am at pains a bit to put to much blame on the roads... fact is, a zillion people drove around that bend for everyone that crashes... many probably faster than the one that crashed, the ne that crashed just wasn't concentrating or equiped with the skills to stay out of trouble... as a poster said eariler I am constantly amazed at there people manage to kill themselves... dead straight multilane roads, and a bouquet of flowers... it just doesn't make sense... but,

I am into motorbikes and am astounded by how many crash in the Royal National Park, and then try and blame the road... there isn't a corner in the park that I can't get around at double the speed limit, and my bike isn't even a street bike... yet somehow the road is to blame for them not making a corner...

Still, having travelled extensively throught Asia and also the UK nowhere have I come across goat tracks used as major roads like we do here in Australia... where much of Asia is connected by 8 lane dual carriage ways, we have only in the last couple of years connected our two closes capital cities, Sydney and Canberra...

60% of fatal crashes take place on rural roads, even higher if pedestrian fatalities are taken out... obviously because cars are travelling at higher speeds, so the outcome is worse... yet all tests are taken the metro areas (even in country towns they don't go on the highway)... sure people purposely driving fast (especially youths) figure in these percentages (no young bloke from the country has never raced between theirs and the next closest town), but many of them are mum, dad, grandma, grandpa, driving along a country 'highway' at the speed the sign tells them is safe, failing to negotiate one bend in many hundred hours of lifetime driving, and a tragedy occuring... you can bet very few of them were actually speeding, or speeding at a point that actually had a bearing on the crash...

40% of fatal crashes are from hitting roadside 'furniture', trees, poles, bridges... just moving them all back 10m would apprently reduce the road toll by up to 50%...

Australia also relies heavily on road transport, because we don't have a freight rail network to speak off... truck drivers get fatigued and have single vehicle accidents, or wander a foot onto the wrong side of the road, and because our major roads are so small, the car coming the other way has nowhere to go... many of my mates are truckies, none of them cowboys, but the fact is, our roads just aren't capable of running trucks that size over those distances safely...

I also believe though, the government and media has created a culture of trully shit drivers in Australia, look at the high number of 4WDs on country roads, unable to maintain even that ridiculously low speed limit... someone gets the shits and overtakes with insufficient room and crash... who is truly to blame...

Look at the number of realtively fast cars you see on country roads, Camrys, Subarus, Peugots, Volvos, sitting on 20km/h under the speed limit, oblivious to the queue of traffic behind them...

Trucks strugging up hills and 10km between overtaking lanes, where the aforementioned Camry will pull along side them, but not be willing to do 101km/h to overtake...

And before we get all compacent that the road toll is coming down, almost all of that reduction is due to the advances in emergency medical treatement and transport (helicopters)... actual accident rates and severity have actually remained fairly stable for 20 years (despite all the f^cking revenue cameras)...

so unfortunately for many of the 'boy racers' on here... I really believe that an attention to excessive speed/enthusiastic driving among young males in the cities (highly over represented in the 40% of non-rural crashes), by actual bastard HWP cops... and using your traffic infringment money to pay for better medical treatment/transport in the country is the only real way to reduce the road toll in the short term... no amount of fining drivers for 20km/h over where it is generally low risk is going to change their behaviour...

Long term multilane divided roads are the next step, but very expensive in Australia...

in the mean time, I just wish they would fine every f^cker that can't understand "Keep Left Unless Overtaking"... while actually low causal for fatal accidents, just the height of arrogance or ignorance, and they should all be fined $1000 and then shot ...

Cheers,

Daewoo

[gmx]

Sorry, but in a thread about how crap Australian drivers are, you are showing part of the reason why we are so crap,no one ever taught you to drive properly... even in top gear, no throttle means the compression of the engine is helping to slow the car... and fanning the clutch is for motorbikes, not for cars...

Australian drivers are crap... our roads are crap, we try to cover large distances in short time, and we rely on a speed sign to tell us what is safe...

But also, you need to distinguish between generally crap driving, like not watching the sequence of the traffic lights, pushing in, driving too slow, and unsafe driving, like not being able to stay on your side of the road, driving drunk, or driving fatigued...

I am at pains a bit to put to much blame on the roads... fact is, a zillion people drove around that bend for everyone that crashes... many probably faster than the one that crashed, the ne that crashed just wasn't concentrating or equiped with the skills to stay out of trouble... as a poster said eariler I am constantly amazed at there people manage to kill themselves... dead straight multilane roads, and a bouquet of flowers... it just doesn't make sense... but,

I am into motorbikes and am astounded by how many crash in the Royal National Park, and then try and blame the road... there isn't a corner in the park that I can't get around at double the speed limit, and my bike isn't even a street bike... yet somehow the road is to blame for them not making a corner...

Still, having travelled extensively throught Asia and also the UK nowhere have I come across goat tracks used as major roads like we do here in Australia... where much of Asia is connected by 8 lane dual carriage ways, we have only in the last couple of years connected our two closes capital cities, Sydney and Canberra...

60% of fatal crashes take place on rural roads, even higher if pedestrian fatalities are taken out... obviously because cars are travelling at higher speeds, so the outcome is worse... yet all tests are taken the metro areas (even in country towns they don't go on the highway)... sure people purposely driving fast (especially youths) figure in these percentages (no young bloke from the country has never raced between theirs and the next closest town), but many of them are mum, dad, grandma, grandpa, driving along a country 'highway' at the speed the sign tells them is safe, failing to negotiate one bend in many hundred hours of lifetime driving, and a tragedy occuring... you can bet very few of them were actually speeding, or speeding at a point that actually had a bearing on the crash...

40% of fatal crashes are from hitting roadside 'furniture', trees, poles, bridges... just moving them all back 10m would apprently reduce the road toll by up to 50%...

Australia also relies heavily on road transport, because we don't have a freight rail network to speak off... truck drivers get fatigued and have single vehicle accidents, or wander a foot onto the wrong side of the road, and because our major roads are so small, the car coming the other way has nowhere to go... many of my mates are truckies, none of them cowboys, but the fact is, our roads just aren't capable of running trucks that size over those distances safely...

I also believe though, the government and media has created a culture of trully shit drivers in Australia, look at the high number of 4WDs on country roads, unable to maintain even that ridiculously low speed limit... someone gets the shits and overtakes with insufficient room and crash... who is truly to blame...

Look at the number of realtively fast cars you see on country roads, Camrys, Subarus, Peugots, Volvos, sitting on 20km/h under the speed limit, oblivious to the queue of traffic behind them...

Trucks strugging up hills and 10km between overtaking lanes, where the aforementioned Camry will pull along side them, but not be willing to do 101km/h to overtake...

And before we get all compacent that the road toll is coming down, almost all of that reduction is due to the advances in emergency medical treatement and transport (helicopters)... actual accident rates and severity have actually remained fairly stable for 20 years (despite all the f^cking revenue cameras)...

so unfortunately for many of the 'boy racers' on here... I really believe that an attention to excessive speed/enthusiastic driving among young males in the cities (highly over represented in the 40% of non-rural crashes), by actual bastard HWP cops... and using your traffic infringment money to pay for better medical treatment/transport in the country is the only real way to reduce the road toll in the short term... no amount of fining drivers for 20km/h over where it is generally low risk is going to change their behaviour...

Long term multilane divided roads are the next step, but very expensive in Australia...

in the mean time, I just wish they would fine every f^cker that can't understand "Keep Left Unless Overtaking"... while actually low causal for fatal accidents, just the height of arrogance or ignorance, and they should all be fined $1000 and then shot ...

Cheers,

Daewoo

+1

[iamhe77]

....

Nor is it to indicate right when going straight through roundabout, at least their brain is switched on.

....

So are you turning right or going straight?

Why would you want things dangling from your mirror anyway?

By right you do mean left, right? Is your brain switched on?

Pet hate....people not giving way to let you reverse park,,grrrrrrrrr

Tell me about it.

Not only did I have a commodore pull right up to the rear of my car just as I had changed into reverse to back into a park at a shopping centre (yes, I was indicating), effectively blocking my path, but the Patrol in the park opposite me (nose first park - should be made banned) decided that because nobody was moving on his right that he would reverse out of his park!

The horn on the Stag has never had such a workout.... and the Patrol stopped less than 1/2 a meter from my driver side window.

You want bad drivers? Take a trip down to Mt. Eliza in Vic. Expensive cars with owners that have absolutely no awareness nor caring for anyone or anything around them.

.... must.... control... frustration....

Edited January 6, 2010 by iamhe77

[ARTZ]

yeah but sitting there with the clutch in means that there's no engine braking being used at all, why don't you try putting your car in neutral and stop using brakes alone, then do it with it in 3rd (until it starts to cough lol)

I know it will slow quicker, or better yet back to second and compression lock the bitch...Truth is car stops much more smoothly if you just put the clutch in, or knock it to neautral...now im talking driving everyday here...not race track driving which of course involves more downshiftin gears..Now i do downchange all the time, but this guy is not downchanging at all hes just braking with it in gear, even his driving instructor told him off about it...See my point yet.. and now this Daewoo guy is trying to tell me im wrong

Daewoo, what is it (and im generalizing here) with bikers thinking they now everything about how to drive a car,

now im sure you do drive a car, but just cause you ride a bike doesnt make you the gospel of driving.. If you drove my gutless lpg bravo ute i reckon you may occasionly be fanning the clutch for a little extra poke out of corners too ..Ive done 300,000kms in 3 years, i have replaced 1 clutch 2 sets of front brake pads and 1 set of tyres, (actually i just put new ones on so 2 sets) so i must be doing something right.

The clutch was actually still good but i did a spiggot bush due to downshifting to much and not rev matching enough. so i replaced it while the box was out.And have changed my driving style accordingly..On top of that i daily beat muppets with hot/new cars through corners and roundabouts cause they have no idea how to drive, only to have them plant the foot on the exit and rocket past like some sort of hero.

Now i'm not trying to say im any better driver than you are, but dont try tell me i'm any worse

Other than that i did find your piece interesting and informative...

Edited January 6, 2010 by faggywaggy

[bozodos]

hehe the first time i got compression lock was in my R32 coming into a roundabout, scared the shit out of me lol

[ARTZ]

It does at first but its fun when you learn how not good when you get it wrong and the back end surges out on ya

so did all four lock up or just the rears??

I tried braking while still in top gear today, it didnt stop any quicker, worse if anything

ill run some more tests tommorrow.

Edited January 6, 2010 by faggywaggy

[sneakey pete]

but this guy is not downchanging at all hes just braking with it in gear, even his driving instructor told him off about it.

If your talking about me you have horrible reading comprehension.

[ARTZ]

had someone at a driver training course (you know, basic one that they send you off to in grade 12) that told us to put the clutch in to break. Whatever dude.

sorry did i read this wrong?

[Daewoo]

Daewoo, what is it (and im generalizing here) with bikers thinking they now everything about how to drive a car,

now im sure you do drive a car, but just cause you ride a bike doesnt make you the gospel of driving.. If you drove my gutless lpg bravo ute i reckon you may occasionly be fanning the clutch for a little extra poke out of corners too ..Ive done 300,000kms in 3 years, i have replaced 1 clutch 2 sets of front brake pads and 1 set of tyres, (actually i just put new ones on so 2 sets) so i must be doing something right.

Well before I got into bikes less than half a decade ago, I raced cars... I was under 2L Chanmpion in the 1997 NSW Rally Championship, and been competing in mtorsport for almost 20 years, so I know aboot cars much more than I know aboot bikes...

That was in a Datsun 1600 with an engine built by me (ie. without skill) for $700 against cars worth $40K and $60K IN MY CLASS... so I think the Bravo Ute would be a luxury ...

Bikes (typically) have a wet clutch, which is sympathetic to being 'slipped' or fanned... it has multiple clutch plates surrounded by oil... cars hopefully do not have oil in the clutch and have mucho torquo, so fanning the clutch isn't proper driving...

Car engines use compression braking effectively, so declutching, or shifting into neutral is a negative rather that a positive... my point being, you are a guy who really wants to drive a car properlly, yet even you haven't been taught this most fundamental skill...

Compression locking only occurs if the engine speed (ie gear selection and speed of declutching) can not match the road speed... you can shift a car from 5th to 2nd if you let the clutch out slow enough... so while compression locking is good for initiating turn in (or a scandinavian flick), I can imagine it is frowned upon in a driving test... don't get me wrong, using the gearbox to slow the car isn't right... gears are for going, brakes are for slowing... but bragging about shifting to neutral or holding the clutch while brakiing in is like bragging about rooting by sticking your dick in and just leaving it there... not the desired outcome for anyone...

Cheers,

Daewoo

Edited January 6, 2010 by Daewoo

[bozodos]

haha funny post.

Nah faggywaggy, bloody ATTESSA can't cope with the Microtech computer so no AWD, I assume had it been working it would not have happened

[ARTZ]

Well before I got into bikes less than half a decade ago, I raced cars... I was under 2L Chanmpion in the 1997 NSW Rally Championship, and been competing in mtorsport for almost 20 years, so I know aboot cars much more than I know aboot bikes...

That was in a Datsun 1600 with an engine built by me (ie. without skill) for $700 against cars worth $40K and $60K IN MY CLASS... so I think the Bravo Ute would be a luxury ...

Bikes (typically) have a wet clutch, which is sympathetic to being 'slipped' or fanned... it has multiple clutch plates surrounded by oil... cars hopefully do not have oil in the clutch and have mucho torquo, so fanning the clutch isn't proper driving...

Car engines use compression braking effectively, so declutching, or shifting into neutral is a negative rather that a positive... my point being, you are a guy who really wants to drive a car properlly, yet even you haven't been taught this most fundamental skill...

Compression locking only occurs if the engine speed (ie gear selection and speed of declutching) can not match the road speed... you can shift a car from 5th to 2nd if you let the clutch out slow enough... so while compression locking is good for initiating turn in (or a scandinavian flick), I can imagine it is frowned upon in a driving test... don't get me wrong, using the gearbox to slow the car isn't right... gears are for going, brakes are for slowing... but bragging about shifting to neutral or holding the clutch while brakiing in is like bragging about rooting by sticking your dick in and just leaving it there... not the desired outcome for anyone...

Cheers,

Daewoo

Yeah , i agree the bravo is luxury compared to an old datto...Though it is basically still very primitive in design

Guys dont think for a second, i dont compression brake, and i heel n toe so much i dont even think about it anymore

But the way Pete was talking sounded like he was just putting the foot on the brake ...

As for fanning the clutch, its something i do rarely cause it is not great for the car, But I did put a high performance exedy clutch in it , which is great..Though probably overkill for my ute, I try make the most of it

I am not trying to brag about my driving styles for any other reason than i usually do what is best for the vehicle cause i need it to last...other driving styles will get a better performance result, but these ways are better to make the car last..

Brakes are a lot cheaper to replace than a shagged gearbox or clutch..

I guess I've taken Pete a bit out of context and same has been done for me...Shit happens.. And this discussion is going nowhere.....

Edited January 7, 2010 by faggywaggy