S-afc2 Vs E-manage Vs - Powerfc

[Tragic]

Ok, well I know that the PowerFC is obviously the best all round option however im wondering which will be the best solution for me. I have done plenty of searching and reading up on all three devices but im still not sure...

Currently I have the following mods;

Exhaust from turbo back

Greddy E-01

Filter

FMIC

Im not aiming for any big power numbers so im only planning on the following mods in the future;

Adjustable cam gear

Walbro fuel pump

CAI

From looking around on the net I'm thinking the devices are around the following price

S-AFC2 - $250 approx

E-Manage - $400/$500

PowerFC - $950

Now on top of this each device needs to be tuned, logic would tell me that the more programmable the device the m..ore its going to cost to tune. Does anyone have a rough idea of how much these will cost to tune?

Now... With what I want to achieve is it worth going the PowerFC? The main aim is to get a little more power, while making the power safer, hopefully with a little better fuel economy and getting the best bang for my buck...

The engine in questions is a RB25DET

Edited February 23, 2006 by Tragic

[smurf80]

Hey mate where did you see a SAFC2 for $250???

Cheers

Chris

[gt-t_r34]

depending where you are i got quoted 450 for a fresh power fc tune seems pretty good to me so might sweeten up your choice!

btw im in melb.

Edited February 23, 2006 by gt-t_r34

[Tragic]

Im in Syd, I've seen some S-AFC's floating around for the $250 - $300 mark on forums, second hand ofcourse.

[paulr33]

just my view;

the walbro is crap dont bother, get a gtr33 pump

the emanage and safc are piggybacks and only give you half of the benefits.

the car will drive better, respond better, perform better and have more flexability with the powerfc.

dont bother with the emanage, its exensive get a cheaper EBC

get a good cold air intake

get a 3" turbo back exhaust with split dump before you fit any of these parts

[Tragic]

I already have a EBC, CIA is listed on the planned mods plus I already have a turbo back exhaust as per the first post

Im really asking is the PowerFC worth the extra money for my needs???

[paulr33]

that depends on how much money you have

you can make around %80 of what you need with the safc so it may be ok

there are great benefits with have stand alone engine management such as the powerfc

with benefits also comes cost

[Sydneykid]

If it's a manual get a Power FC,

An SAFC won't fix the speed limiter

An SAFC won't allow independant adjustment of the ignition timing

An SAFC won't give you a full sensor diagnostics screen (Commander)

An SAFC won't show a dash warning for knock, injector duty or AFM voltage

An SAFC tune is a compromise tune (A/F ratio versus ignition timing)

etc etc

Think about it, an SAFC is ~$450 new and they sell used for ~$250.

A Power FC is ~$950 new and they sell used for ~$950.

It is pretty easy to see which is considered the best value.

cheers

Edited February 23, 2006 by Sydneykid

[otto]

If your still gonna keep the std turbo and only run about 12psi i would go safc as its way cheaper and your not gonna gain that much more if anything with the pfc. but if you have bigger plans in the future you may aswell get the pfc now.

[Tragic]

Thats what im thinking. I wanna keep the price down and I don't plan on upgrading the turbo.

What about the e-manage no one has really mentioned this? Is it a good inbetween? And how much do you think it would cost to get this tuned?

[paulr33]

there is quiet considerable gains to be had as far as driving response and overall engine response.

the feeling on a well tuned rb25 with a powerfc is well beyond the stock ecu with a piggyback.

this is where the main benefits lie. you will probably end up with the same or similar max rwkw but thats not what is important. its how it drives and average power is what is important

the emanage is more expensive and by the time you set it all up with the harness and crap its probably just as much as the apexi powerfc.

so its clearly;

safc or apexi powerfc

ps; this topic and similar piggyback options have been discussed to death over and over, did you try a search? you will find lots of support for the apexi powerfc over piggyback

[Mase]

you obviously havent researched much into emanage's??

An emanage can be purchased and delivered with ignition and injector harness for $490 delivered. Or alternatively you could purchase a car specific harness which including the unit it approx 530.

This means it bolts straight in and you can drive to the tune shop as it will have no adjustments made and be running what your ECU has set up.

Then just find someone who can tune it and you're set.

[paulr33]

and at the end of the day, guess what?

its still a piggyback, much more value (and good tuners) for the powerfc

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

you can get by with an SAFC2 with the mods you have, if all you want to do is get your A/F ratios right, but that's about all they can do

E-manage is still a piggyback, but it's superior to the SAFC2 becuase you can adjust ignition timing.

there is quiet considerable gains to be had as far as driving response and overall engine response.

the feeling on a well tuned rb25 with a powerfc is well beyond the stock ecu with a piggyback.

i don't think this comment is justified, can you back this up with any examples of cars you have driven? and if so, how do you know it just isn't the tuner?

whilst a powerfc is superior to an emanage, they both allow you to do the same thing... adjust timing and fuel. now powerfc is easier to tune, but given enough time and an experienced tuner, an emanage can be tuned equally as well. So the question would more come down to features and ease of use.

my personal preference in ecu's leans towards the wolfv4 units, but I almost bought a powerfc for rb20 the other day because i found one for a price i couldn't turn up... At the end of the day, as long as it allows you to change timing and fuel, then it'll do the job.

Anyway, in general i'd prefer a full plug-in or stock remap over a piggyback anyday..... save up and go the pfc mate!

[paulr33]

well having tuned my own powerfc i would likely to believe myself and feel the results for myself. how many tuners in melb can do the emanage? how long does it take to install? whats involved in installation?

the powerfc takes 5 minutes

i get to retain the stock ecu if i need

i remove every limit in the stock ecu

and its completely tuneable

what more would u need?

the cost is justified, and i think the powerfc is still cheaper than the emanage with harness

[Mase]

The emanage and harness is $530, how does that go more than $950?

The emanage allows you to retain stock ECU operations such as cold start and air conditioning. It does not need to be 'set up' as you could say and therefore would require less setting up time.

Emanage has similar functions that the PowerFC has, it lacks the ability to lower the rev limit however.

Any tune shop can tune an emanage if they're capable of oeprating a dyno. All it requires is the USB cable to connect to the emanage and the software. The same sort of set up with most aftermarket ECU's.

The USB cable can be purchased as well as software through nengun or greenlines online stores and is much cheaper than a hand controller. You just plug into your laptop install the software and you're tuning. Any 'home' tuner can adjust their air/fuel ratio's with a wideban sensor.

I have nothing against the PowerFC, it was more the fact that you approached it very one minded and just 'assumed' the emanage was a silly option when in fact for the money it costs, which is quite a lot less than the PowerFC, then the Emanage is quite a good aftermarket ECU option.

Edited May 11, 2006 by Mase

[justin911]

I had a safc2... it was great.. but trust me you'll regret buying it later on when you decide to do more mods...

I got rid of mine about 6 months later and got a pfc

[paulr33]

there must be some limiations using the piggyback method, vs complete stand alone. also the powerfc doesnt affect aircon and has perfect out of the box cold start

[Busky2k]

I don't like piggy backs because at the end of the day your just riding a stock ECU. I've found with piggy backs that the AFRs can change over time, and same with the ignition timing because the stock ECU plays with them and theres nothing you can do with it. What about when you do an ECU reset, your fuel/ignition maps are not right anymore because the ECU is starting to learn its fuel/ignition correction tables from scratch again. Chuck on bigger injectors/AFMs etc and you can just imagine how hard a piggy back is trying to fool the stock ECU. You can only do so much!

Stand alone you have complete control. emanages are for tightasses who cant go the extra mile and do it right with a PowerFC. All the talk about A/C and cold start etc is a completely non issue with PowerFCs. Hell it even has closed loop when tuned good. What more could you ask for, for the price? PowerFCs are so cheap now. Back in the day when they were closer to 2k then its understandable. Remember $500 difference at the end of the day when you add up the money you waste on modifying, is not much really.

Edited May 11, 2006 by Busky2k

[paulr33]

amen. i also found the powerfc much better during gear changes, it felt heaps smoother. but thats probably due to the extra ign timing and tune more than ecu change itself.