Kkr And Monsta Turbos

[benhpi]

Some facts on KKR, to help reduce some of the confusion.

Yes they are a plain bearing or 'bush' type turbo. A lot of people put too much weight on this specification, when really the way the turbo performs on the engine is what matters and there are clearly plenty of users who are happy with the results.

They come with a 6-month unlimited replacement warranty, which is the best warranty offered by any turbo manufacturer to our knowledge.

They are not the same as the many 'ebay turbos' that have been mentioned. These are manufactured by a company which builds turbos for various European OEM customers, using all German machines.

They are not a direct bolt-on for any particular engine, but the work required to fit a KKR430 or KKR480 to an RB20 or RB25 is not very complicated and the whole job can be done in half a day. It is true that with a dump pipe and installation the KKR480 will cost $1500-1600, but compare this to most other options and you will find it is still extremely cheap. Remember fitting any turbo, including a 'bolt-on kit' will cost a few hundred in labour.

As for power output, we have seen many RB25s making 240-260kW at the wheels with a KKR480 and 16-18psi boost. We have also seen the odd unusual example making close to 300kW, but given the manufacturer rating of 480hp, mid-200s are a realistic expectation.

We have yet to see any KKR430 turbos used in a high boost application, but with 12-14psi we have seen 180-215kW at the wheels on RB20 and RB25 applications. The smaller exhaust housing and turbine make it less suitable for high-boost applications, but it is very efficient at moderate boost levels.

On an RB25 a KKR480 will deliver full boost at around 4000-4500rpm, depending on tuning, cam timing etc. A KKR430 will deliver full boost by 3500rpm, but both turbos begin to produce boost from much lower rpm.

Ultimately the results will vary a lot depending on tuning and the other parts fitted to the car, but keeping in mind the price, the KKR turbos are hard to beat on a dollar-per-horsepower ratio.

Anyone wanting more information should refer to www.otomoto.com.au or email [email protected]

[Silver_r33]

Some facts on KKR, to help reduce some of the confusion.

Yes they are a plain bearing or 'bush' type turbo. A lot of people put too much weight on this specification, when really the way the turbo performs on the engine is what matters and there are clearly plenty of users who are happy with the results.

They come with a 6-month unlimited replacement warranty, which is the best warranty offered by any turbo manufacturer to our knowledge.

They are not the same as the many 'ebay turbos' that have been mentioned. These are manufactured by a company which builds turbos for various European OEM customers, using all German machines.

They are not a direct bolt-on for any particular engine, but the work required to fit a KKR430 or KKR480 to an RB20 or RB25 is not very complicated and the whole job can be done in half a day. It is true that with a dump pipe and installation the KKR480 will cost $1500-1600, but compare this to most other options and you will find it is still extremely cheap. Remember fitting any turbo, including a 'bolt-on kit' will cost a few hundred in labour.

As for power output, we have seen many RB25s making 240-260kW at the wheels with a KKR480 and 16-18psi boost. We have also seen the odd unusual example making close to 300kW, but given the manufacturer rating of 480hp, mid-200s are a realistic expectation.

We have yet to see any KKR430 turbos used in a high boost application, but with 12-14psi we have seen 180-215kW at the wheels on RB20 and RB25 applications. The smaller exhaust housing and turbine make it less suitable for high-boost applications, but it is very efficient at moderate boost levels.

On an RB25 a KKR480 will deliver full boost at around 4000-4500rpm, depending on tuning, cam timing etc. A KKR430 will deliver full boost by 3500rpm, but both turbos begin to produce boost from much lower rpm.

Ultimately the results will vary a lot depending on tuning and the other parts fitted to the car, but keeping in mind the price, the KKR turbos are hard to beat on a dollar-per-horsepower ratio.

Anyone wanting more information should refer to www.otomoto.com.au or email [email protected]

Judging by that dyno graph, it shows that positive boost (around 3psi) is made ~3300rpm and full boost is achieved at ~5000 rpm? Is it just me or does that seem a little late?

[R31Nismoid]

Ben, on your own website

Tested by Croydon Racing Developments on an RB25DET Neo engine, it produced 242kW at the wheels at 18psi.

297rwkw is 55rwkw more, with 3psi less boost.

On a motor that has a 1.8mm head gasket, i find that also to be quite interesting.

Upto 20rwkw variance i could believe... 55rwkw variance my mind tells me isnt correct.

Also, would you be able to shed some light as to how a stock RB25... which means 370cc injectors to the best of my knowledge... can make 297rwkw?

There is no mention of a massive fuel rail pressure increase that im aware of, being its a stock motor.

Im very interested to know the above as are many others im sure

[Tangles]

So no Trust / Greddy turbo for you then.

Cant afford that anyway!!

Just going by experienced ppl's recommendations........

[benhpi]

Ben, on your own website

297rwkw is 55rwkw more, with 3psi less boost.

On a motor that has a 1.8mm head gasket, i find that also to be quite interesting.

Upto 20rwkw variance i could believe... 55rwkw variance my mind tells me isnt correct.

Also, would you be able to shed some light as to how a stock RB25... which means 370cc injectors to the best of my knowledge... can make 297rwkw?

There is no mention of a massive fuel rail pressure increase that im aware of, being its a stock motor.

Im very interested to know the above as are many others im sure

Best to call Jake's Performance for info on the tuning of this particular car. It did have a huge fuel pressure increase as far as we know. As for the later spooling, again this relates to tuning, cam timing, compression ratio etc.

[Bass Junky]

just looking

[Robo's]

You better tell Jake's Performance he needs his dyno re-calibrated. The BP is 93.6, this would indicate a much higher figure than the true BP reading of say 100.0 unless you live in the Antartic

[paulr33]

good spot there robo (my comment re; 2000 @ 71km/h was wrong, please ignore)

[R31Nismoid]

can you rip a graph with RPM plots for us Paul?

[paulr33]

see attached. i've resized it. my original calc was wrong (re: 2000rpm @ 71km/h is wrong. my aplogies)

attached are the right figures. very laggy

[RNS11Z]

Abit off topic: my r33 made 290rwkw on standard injectors. this was with massive fuel pressure increase and 044 pump. tuned by matty spry in se qld. most se qld people will know who he is. My comment is to support the fact that 360+rwhp can be made on stock injectors but they will be at there limits. Several qld cars have made over 400rwhp on stock injectors and ran into the mid 120mph range down the 1/4. I would say they should take that car down the track to show its potentail.

Abit off topic: my r33 made 290rwkw on standard injectors. this was with massive fuel pressure increase and 044 pump. tuned by matty spry in se qld. most se qld people will know who he is. My comment is to support the fact that 360+rwhp can be made on stock injectors but they will be at there limits. Several qld cars have made over 400rwhp on stock injectors and ran into the mid 120mph range down the 1/4. I would say they should take that car down the track to show its potentail.

[LBR33]

Matt Spry has one of the most inaccurate dynos around i wouldnt trust that dyno, iv been told its been many years since the last calibration.

[paulr33]

have a quick looksy at

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...e=post&id=25136

if you wanna see how this turbo combo compares against some other rb25 turbo setup.s

[Robo's]

have a quick looksy at

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...e=post&id=25136

if you wanna see how this turbo combo compares against some other rb25 turbo setup.s

With a lower BP reading is shows a higher RWKW figure as its in shootout mode. My friend has a dyno shop and his dyno read around 98BP when it was 101BP. I kept on getting high figures approx 10% higher. Went back to the shop when it was fixed and he showed me how it all works ala, now true RWKW not inflated. I'd hate to think of the true lower RWKW of a 93BP reading.

[paulr33]

do you know what BP stands for? i had a work shop also demo me air temp correction and my run went from 180rwkw ish to 240rwkw ish

super duper

[RNS11Z]

Matt Spry has one of the most inaccurate dynos around i wouldnt trust that dyno, iv been told its been many years since the last calibration.

true, every one knows his dyno reads low.

[Beer Baron]

i assume BP is Barometric Pressure. it's to correct for air density.

[benhpi]

With a lower BP reading is shows a higher RWKW figure as its in shootout mode. My friend has a dyno shop and his dyno read around 98BP when it was 101BP. I kept on getting high figures approx 10% higher. Went back to the shop when it was fixed and he showed me how it all works ala, now true RWKW not inflated. I'd hate to think of the true lower RWKW of a 93BP reading.

Bear in mind that Canberra is comparatively high altitude, so the BP should be lower.

[Dr_Drift]

From my perswonal experience there is one particlar e-bay turbo that is BAD - The '50 70' as some call it... This is the turbo on the MX6 link, and has nerouse bad reviews everywhere.

I have fitted the T70 to serveral cars now with excellent results, and seem to fine for long term also with the first that I fitted 8 months ago still going strong. They are rated at 600 so expected to be laggy.

I have also tuned 2 CA1DET's with the KKR 330 and KKR 430, the 430 was fairly laggy on the CA, but the 330 gave me the biggest shock! 206 rwkw @ 16 psi with awesome response.... I am completely confident the 430 would be an excellent turbo on a larger capacity (2lt or 2.5lt) motor.

Summary:

EBay - '50 70' = BAD

EBay - 'T70' = Good

KKR - =Good

[paulr33]

hey sam can u send us any dyno sheets of those (only r33 rb25) so i can plot them on the compare chart i did?