Autronics Ecu, Who Here Is Using One, Or Used One?

[CruiseLiner]

hey guys just wondered who here is using an autronics ecu on their cars? and your thoughts on the ecu and how much power are you making, any problems with it? which model ecu, smc, smc2, smc4? using the cdi unit?

has anyone been involved in changing idle and little things like that? im really keen on learning about the ecu and its features and wouldnt mind learning to eventually tune my self (though id start on a much cheaper engine than my 26 until i know what im doing).

im running an autronics smc and i got a laptop and i plugged in the plug to the ecu and to the laptop and it says its unable to find connection and ive got the correct smc proram on the laptop so what could be the problem?

any relevant info appreciated appreciated, and maybe it can be as useful as the power fc thread about setting it up/tuning etc

cheers

Edited March 10, 2006 by CruiseLiner

[FATGTS-R]

Have you looked at the autronic forums? There is a goldmine of info there, especially if you are interested in tuning with it. What chip version smc do you have?

Probably not your cause but just in case make sure the program is setup to read the correct COM port. For some reason my program was set to read com2 as default and I was plugged into com1 and it took me all day to figure it out.

Also make sure the ignition is on. It needs power to send the signal.

Edited March 10, 2006 by FATGTS-R

[Warpspeed]

I have an SMC fitted to a Ford Laser turbo.

It went in over Christmas and had no problems with it at all. The engine started and ran first attempt, and the self tune feature using the Autronic air fuel meter works extremely well.

The best thing you can do is join the Autronic Forum as mentioned above.

[R31Nismoid]

**waits for WetGTR to post**

[rob82]

hey guys just wondered who here is using an autronics ecu on their cars? and your thoughts on the ecu and how much power are you making, any problems with it? which model ecu, smc, smc2, smc4? using the cdi unit?

has anyone been involved in changing idle and little things like that? im really keen on learning about the ecu and its features and wouldnt mind learning to eventually tune my self (though id start on a much cheaper engine than my 26 until i know what im doing).

im running an autronics smc and i got a laptop and i plugged in the plug to the ecu and to the laptop and it says its unable to find connection and ive got the correct smc proram on the laptop so what could be the problem?

any relevant info appreciated appreciated, and maybe it can be as useful as the power fc thread about setting it up/tuning etc

cheers

Tuned an SM4 on a 300awkw WRX just last week. 2 hours on the bench plotting base maps assigning pins and the general setup. Once on the dyno I did a bit of plotting around 1500 - 4000 rpm bracket and the first WOT run ran 10:1 where I was commanding 11.5:1, second run bang on the money 11.5:1. So all in all 1 hour on the dyno 2hours on the bench not including the wiring. Lets see a motec, haltech, microtech do that from no base maps. Hope that gives you an idea of the ability of the autronic.

Edited March 11, 2006 by rob82

[Warpspeed]

Have to agree, the Autronic is extremely easy to get going and is very user friendly. What really sets the Autronic apart is the superior software.

It may not be the cheapest ECU, but it will save you a lot of dyno time, and in the end it probably costs no more by the time everything has been fully sorted out.

[CruiseLiner]

i have the smc early version (1.9 or something i think) and i bought it over 5/6 years ago now and i dont have the name of the dealer i bought it off, as a local shop got it for me brand new. or is the local tuning shop the actual dealer? and i dont remember seeing the serial number either which makes going on that autronics site difficult.

mine has double dwell, auto tune, anti lag, etc all the features, ive run it before with the rb26 and no problems, but ive been warned they have trouble with over 450rwhp and with the CDI units not workin correctly?

so anyone got any hp figures on say the top 10 autronics cars in Oz? or even around the world?

i know keith from the GTR UK forums with a OS3L setup and running easy 9s is using one, dont know the exact details though.

ive been told i need to run 2 cdi units to get it not to burn out coilpacks, sound like rubbish to you guys?

also ive been talking to WetGTR about his setup/ecu a fair bit as well.

cheers

Brad

[2BNVS]

just curious what would a autronic ecu set me back currently im making 500rwhp in my gts-t using a power fc

ben...

[low747]

I have an autronic smc, cdi, it's perfect, very easy to learn and get around. motor makes over 500rwkw no problems. Very good product.

[FATGTS-R]

The serial number is stamped into the side of the unit. If you can hold it in your hands you should be able to see the serial number.

[Warpspeed]

2BNVS, I bought some Autronic parts a couple of months ago.

Basic SMC ECU with loom $1758

Top of the range SM4 with loom $2200

The Autronic air fuel meter is absolutely the best unit available, comes with various options, and two different types of sensor, but prices range from $1900 to $2000

For a Skyline probably all you need extra would be a different optical disc for the CAS. Not sure but I think that is about $50.

On a Skyline you would probably use the factory igniter modules, so ignition is taken care of.

Best contact your nearest Autronic dealer for firm prices. I bought this one from Ray Hall in Queensland. HE is the biggest dealer, and runs the Autronic Forum. Ray was extremely helpful, and I recommend him highly.

[Shaun]

After over two years of putting my Rb26 together, i fired it up for the first time yesterday. Im using an Autronic SM4 and my engine started off the key almost first go. I reckon it idles better than factory in its current untuned state!

Im hoping for between 330 and 350rwkw and ive been advised that i shouldnt have any ignition problems at this level. This is actually why i chose the SM4 over the SMC, because it has ignition drivers (? terminology?) and you dont need to use a CDI which is about another $1000.

Autronics downfall is its customer service; which is why i believe ill informed people put shit on the computers. Ive also seen another two very serious twin turbo and super charged V8's behave like every day drivers when tuned with autronics. Im sold.

[WetGTR]

Brad: I sent you the diagram for the wiring for the cable between laptop and ECU. You also have to go to proporties of the com1 port and change the setting in PORT SETTINGS tab. Go to adavanced settings for com1 properties and turn off FIFO buffers

In regards to coil packs and running 2 x CDI units, this is so you have the full voltage going to your coils because of the wasted spark setup. I've only seen race applications where they use this then they modified the unit for even higher voltage then they added another CDI just to be sure. If you don't want to run wasted spark (there is no problem with wasted spark) then an SM4 with multiplexer for 6 ignition outputs and maybe something like a MSD DIS 6 (Autronics don't have a 6 channel CDI yet but its coming). If you have coils that are suited for CDI your fine. Even the stock or spitfire coils handle a CDI no problem.

To setup a Skyline you will need an SMC or SMC 4, A trigger disk for the CAS, a MAP Sensor.

If using the SMC ver 1.94 or similar, they don't come with dwell control so it can have dwell daughter boards wired in from Autronics but these are no longer available from Autronics anymore. The next choice is to purchase a CDI unit. This can be either Autronics 500R CDI, M&W CDI, MSD Dis4 or anything that can have a negative trigger input to the unit.

If using the SM4 they have dwell control built in and don't need to run CDI. They also have software configured High or Low current drivers for the injectors besides all the other goodies you get.

In regards to tuning, you can tune with any A/F meter but this will be very very slow.

The ideal way of tuning is to use an Autronics A/F meter (btw the Dyno Dynamics Dyno's comes with the Autronics model B A/F ratio meter for all their Dyno's) and have it connected to the ECU. This will enable you to use the Auto tune feature. Now some people will say its crap and they can manual tune faster. This is so untrue! As stated about a hundred times, if used correctly the Auto tune function is faster then any manual tune. I would say the people that use it correctly would also agree. The thing is that the ECU receives the sample results from the wide band O2 sensor very quickly, about 10 samples per sec and the ECU adjusts to suit your target A/F, this is much faster then the A/F meter can display and a person could read and then make adjustments. I can't see a person being that fast, Autronics can do it for you.

For big power, the ECU is capable no doubt but other issues comes up that are not really ECU related. These issues will come up no matter what ECU your running. If its ignition your talking about, then the right equiment should be purchased from the start or be able to be upgrading to suit your situation.

Inital setup is not that hard and if you tell them which car your using it for when purchasing they will give you a base map to start with and setup all the parameters, not too bad to begine with. As for support, every time I've rang them or emailed them, they always spend the time to go through your situation and I've been very happy with that. So hard to diagnose a problem over the phone but they try and this has helped. I could have always taken it in as well.

Hope this has helped with a bit more in sight about the Autronics ECU.

cheers,

Adam

Edited March 12, 2006 by WetGTR

[WetGTR]

**waits for WetGTR to post**

I felt the tremor in the Force

[BU5TER]

does it have more then 4 drivers? hahaha

[sky30]

Do the Autronics run closed loop for idle, and cruise?

How well can they be tuned for good economy?

[Warpspeed]

Just expanding a bit on WetGTR's comments.

The ignition system needs a bit of thought and planning, because the Autronic ECU offers a number of alternatives on how it can be used. The SMC is the basic ECU, the SM2 and SM4 offer additional features, but I will describe here the ignition of the SMC.

First, the SMC has eight individual ignition outputs, (none of which provide any dwell). They are simply on/off outputs, where the on/off transition is the ignition firing point. The software allows many different ways to set all this up, but basically for a six cylinder engine there are three alternatives.

1/ Use one ignition output to drive a single ignition coil via an external Bosch igniter module that provides the necessary dwell angle. This one ignition output could also trigger an external CDI unit. Obviously a distributor cap and rotor button will be required to fire six plugs.

2/ Use three ignition outputs to drive three external Bosch igniters, and use three double ended waste spark ignition coils. The Autronic CDI can also be used with this system as it can drive up to four coils.

3/ Use six ignition outputs to drive the six standard Nissan coil on plug igniters. That would be my preferred option with a Skyline.

Use of the waste spark system is perfectly o/k if you ARE RUNNING THE ORIGINAL CAMS. All modern emissions cams have zero (or almost zero) valve overlap. The ignition system fires two plugs at once, and the inlet valve of the other cylinder MUST be shut when you simultaneously fire both plugs.

Now suppose your ignition fires 15 degrees BTDC in cylinder 1. Cylinder 6 also fires, but the inlet valve will be shut, and that cylinder will be at the end of the exhaust stroke with only exhaust gas in cylinder six.

But suppose you have a set of 262 cams where the inlet valve opens at 22 degrees BTDC ? Cylinder six will have its inlet valve open, and the combustion chamber will be open to the intake runner and full boost pressure. The injector will also be spraying. What do you suppose might happen if the plug fires !!!!!!

Waste spark is great for stock emission engines with standard cams. Even boosted engines. The Commodore supercharged 3.8L V6 uses waste spark. But if you fitted some decent cams to it, expect trouble.

The other issue is that CDI ignitions give vastly higher output energy, but the spark duration is very short. Straight coil/igniter ignitions can also give fairly high energy outputs, but the spark burns for much longer, rather like a welder.

For competition it probably doesn't matter much. But for a road car, if you plan on running fairly weak mixtures (for economy) a longer plug burn time is likely to give less mis firing at very light throttle.

CDI units can sometimes be more susceptible to cross firing unless great care is taken with plug lead layout. But if done properly, it should work fine.

My choice would be coils and igniters for a road car, either one, three, or six. It all depends on the application.

The Autronic CDI is around $1000

The Bosch igniters (with dwell) are $175 each. So six would cost about the same as a CDI.

Lots of alternative ways to do the ignition with an Autronic ECU.

[N I B]

Standard Nissan modules are free with all Nissans and you should be able to use them as other ECUs do.

[Warpspeed]

Do the Autronics run closed loop for idle, and cruise?

How well can they be tuned for good economy?

They don't have closed loop idle, simply because 14.5:1 is usually far too lean for a stable idle, and that is all you are going to get with a narrow band oxygen sensor.

But there is automatic closed loop idle speed control available, and separate fuel and ignition maps for idle that allow for water and air temperature correction, as well as battery voltage correction. (faster idle with flat battery). There are also time functions that can be set for idle enrichment. The whole idle thing can be set up to work wonderfully well without closed loop.

Closed loop operation (for highway) is available if you wish on a basic SMC. It requires fitting a narrow band oxygen sensor and just enabling the closed loop function. You can have it run either closed loop, or open loop, at any location anywhere in the fuel map. So you can set it up any way you want. In closed loop you only get 145:1 which is where the oxygen sensor switches from rich/lean.

But if you choose to run it open loop you can select any air fuel ratio you want. It will run at 17:1 without any problems if that is what it is set to. I run my SMC open loop set to 14.7, and that is exactly what it runs at. No real need for closed loop, but it is there if I ever wanted to try it.

[sky30]

Does The autronic map fuel with seperate maps for each given RPM vs manifold vac, like the microtech matrix mode?

what are the RPM increments in, say 2500, 2750, 3000, etc. ?