Racing Skylines

[Duncan]

The production car series in NSW runs under CAMS 3E rules, same as GTP (although they allowed some changes).

100% stock except:

saftey gear

shocks and springs

diffs

ECU

Brake Pads

Sump

Which is almost identical to the targa regs the gtr runs under except for free brakes.

Eligibility is approved by the street sedan club in NSW, we have some jap imports like a pulsar gtir and a mazda familia running with the rest

But IPRA suits a gtst much better...good luck.

[26motorsport]

I think Lawrence and yourself have made a fundamental misinterpretation of the class rules. My interpretation is that the R32 GTR is eligible, but the R32 GTSt is not....simply because they are distinctly different models and that's what the class rules dictate. Granted they are from the same model series, but they aren't the same model (Nissan certainly see it that way). AFAIC the stewards made the right call and, frankly, if I were a fellow competitor, I'd protest your car as soon as I became aware of it. No offence, but that's just pit politics

Yeh, you're right but thay aren't different models as such, just different options of the same base car like Commodore Executive and Clubsport. You can rock up in an Executive with a 6 litre Chevy engine, no differnt me think! Some weren't happy at the time, more so with Garwood's EVO VI than mine bucket of bolts. I was pretty raw in 01 having done just 1 race meet and 4 Targa's and only went to the Nationals because Lawrence said I couls run. Targa Class has been a saviour though here for lots of cars and is heaps bigger now than IP here just because of Targa itself.

It's morally true in relation to GTS-t's and GTR's but 808's are VERY different cars to RX-7's too but it's ok to run an 808 with an RX-7 engine etc!! The rules aren't consistent and if it is true production racing then all cars should run the engine they were made with, shouldn't they?

It just seems that some makes have a lot more freedom than others and late model cars are disadvantaged by restrictors and weight, evident by the cold hard fact that not many cars made in the last 15 years are competitive, which makes no sense when you think how far production road cars have come in that time.

Enough about my griping, are you racing anything currently?

Cheers

[Duncan]

well...back on your gripe....I disagree

Improved production, Production, Sports Sedans are the main touring car categories and each of them suits different cars. Basically its up the competitor to choose and race a competitive car.

It woudn't be fair to the competitors already at the front of the category (say a S2 Rx7) if the rules were changed and all of a sudden their car could not win any more.

Sydneykid is involved with a GTR running in improved production, and while they have done well they cannot consistently win. Despite the fact that a GTR is undoubtedly one of the quickest cars out there. Its just the rules and they have to work within them

[26motorsport]

The production car series in NSW runs under CAMS 3E rules, same as GTP (although they allowed some changes).

100% stock except:

saftey gear

shocks and springs

diffs

ECU

Brake Pads

Sump

Which is almost identical to the targa regs the gtr runs under except for free brakes.

Eligibility is approved by the street sedan club in NSW, we have some jap imports like a pulsar gtir and a mazda familia running with the rest

But IPRA suits a gtst much better...good luck.

Thanks heaps for that, I've got the manual out right now! I sit on the Tas Racing Drivers Club committee and we are the affiliated IPRA body in Tas. I'll ask our national delegate next week to find out what it will take to get GTS-t's on the list. I notice Silvia's are now ok. (pity CAMS can't spell it!!). There are just as many if not more GTS-t's in OZ so who knows.

Might see you at a track in NSW one day

Cheers

[26motorsport]

well...back on your gripe....I disagree

Improved production, Production, Sports Sedans are the main touring car categories and each of them suits different cars. Basically its up the competitor to choose and race a competitive car.

It woudn't be fair to the competitors already at the front of the category (say a S2 Rx7) if the rules were changed and all of a sudden their car could not win any more.

Sydneykid is involved with a GTR running in improved production, and while they have done well they cannot consistently win. Despite the fact that a GTR is undoubtedly one of the quickest cars out there. Its just the rules and they have to work within them

Yes, but remember that all these cars racing Targa Class were never built for the circuit including mine. They were Targa' cars 1st and foremost where owners of competitive Targa cars want to get more use out of them, that's all. All the front running IP cars would do jack s*** in Targa under it's rules, where Classic plays 2nd fiddle to modern, so that's what you buy and build up.

So they have chosen to a race a competitive car, road race. Not saying the RX-7 should be uncompetitive just level up the playing field a little, Rotaries rule the class.

[t01-100]

It woudn't be fair to the competitors already at the front of the category (say a S2 Rx7) if the rules were changed and all of a sudden their car could not win any more.

Didn't stop CAMS & ARCom making the Porsche 911 GT3, GT2 and Turbo, as well as the Lamborghini Gallardo uncompetitive under the recently released Tarmac Rally Regs!

[Sydneykid]

I thougt this would stir up some stuff, and I am glad for that.

There are 2 issues here;

1. The R32GTST is elligble for IP racing, because it is an approved (High Performance) import by DOTARS. You just apply to your IP committee to have it included on the list. Same as the guys did for the Silvia, you will have no problem getting support for that application.

The same applies to R33GTST, R33GTR, R34GTT, R34GTR etc

But the above is not the real problem......

2. Even if the R32GTST was elligible it would be uncompetitive because it would have to run a single 36 mm restrictor. That means a power limit of around 360 bhp (210 rwkw) and a useable rpm band up to 6,000 rpm.

We survive with the R32GTR in IP because it has twin turbos standard, so is allowed to run 2 X 27 mm restrictors. That allows a little more power and a slightly higher useable rpm range. The 4wd then gives us a big jump off the start. For the same reason the tyres last a little longer. But the weight and the restricted top speed means we get caught up and killed fairly quickly. The longer the straight, the quicker the death.

My issue is I have been arguing this for 4 years, but when the IP Committe is 80% rotary drivers and the 2 elligibility officers are also rotary drivers, you don't get a lot of understanding. They aren't allowed to run Peripheral Ports, so we can suffer the restrictor problem. They have no sympathy for the Late Model issue, there are no late Model rotary Touring Cars, they are Sports Cars (except the Cosmo of course).

In NSW and Vic the Late Model turbo guys have enough trackdays, super sprints, drifting, drags etc to compete at, so they don't care. In Tas and WA they have created their own classes. WA was supposed to be finished last year but they lobbied and got their "Street Car" class continued.

Until every IP committe in the country is full of Late Model Turbo car drivers, we won't get anywhere. Hence my "bat and ball" analogy, you can't change it from outside, only from inside will we succeed.

Cheers

PS; PL claims the R32GTST was entered as an "R32". The entry was accepted because everyone assumed it was a GTR. When it got to scrutineering it was too late, or so PL claims. I never knew about the Stewards hearing, they suppress that stuff pretty well.

Edited March 20, 2006 by Sydneykid

[Duncan]

Didn't stop CAMS & ARCom making the Porsche 911 GT3, GT2 and Turbo, as well as the Lamborghini Gallardo uncompetitive under the recently released Tarmac Rally Regs!

umm I don't think any of those cars will have issues being competitive under the new regs. They might have to be pretty stock but they are pretty quick stock

[t01-100]

umm I don't think any of those cars will have issues being competitive under the new regs. They might have to be pretty stock but they are pretty quick stock

Talk to the entrants of these cars and you'll find they don't share you opinion. As we have until 2008 to sort the new regs I'm sure it will be rectified before anyone has to fire sale a GT3!

[Duncan]

Well I'm still willing to wait until the results are in under the new regs, I am pretty confident that those cars will fill the top 10.....

[t01-100]

Well I'm still willing to wait until the results are in under the new regs, I am pretty confident that those cars will fill the top 10.....

I have no doubt of that Duncan, but being in the top ten doesn't really mean you have a chance of winning anything; look at Targa Tasmania 2005 - third place finished almost nine minutes ahead of fourth!

[Targa Tom]

IT DOESN"T TAKE LONG...

.... before a do gooder has to have his two Bobs worth. Rules are written by people who try to give time and effort to facilitate our sport. It is then up to the people who didn't write the rules to use them to their advantage.

I have been in motorsport for years and found most of the protests come from team midfield talentless losers.

Two Sugars have done something that was sadley lacking in Tassy - Given people with once a year cars a chance to run 7 times per year. I would suggest that if you wanted to compete nationally, you would build your car to suit.

3000 plus spectators at a Club Day... White Hot handicapping, people who would rather have a beer after the event and talk about how to attract more to the next event than winge or spend hours in stewards enquireys mean we have grass roots motorsport on an island with less people than some Sydney suburbs.

Why we even have Vics making the trip.

Keep your pit politics SteveL, keep them up there on the North Island. We are busy looking for the next Ambrose, Bowe, Goss, White en all.

Duncan, I think once the Tarmac scene is over run with factory teams, the top ten will be populated by same... However, you can run your GT-R on the same road the same day as JR & Co and say "This year I was 10 seconds closer to Jim than last year... he is good and I'm having fun" The jury is still out on the rules, but I will garantee one thing - they wont please everyone.

Skyd, thanks for all your help in the past... and thanks for sticking to the facts

Tom

[clayoth]

Absolutely brilliant!!

This should be in VIC. I would be there with bells on.

I have been wanting move up a rung on the pyramid of speed (I currently only do club sprints), but have been unexcited at the prospect of restricting my currently extremely-fun-to-drive WRX to fit into IP. It seems quite unlikely that a WRX will be competitive in this series and I don't find anything attractive about going into a sport (series) when there is little chance of success.

I may have misinterpreted some of the previous comments. However, I am all for - if the rules don't suit take your bat and ball and start a new game. That to me is common sense. If other people start lining up to play your new game, then you have probably done a good thing.

I have been watching the IP Late Model debate for a while and it seems that there has been a bit of lobbying over the past couple of years (please correct me if I'm wrong). It would seem that the series is still weighted toward non-turbo and earlier model vehicles. That's great and I don't necessarily see the benefit of changing rules in a series that is working and potentially causing disadvantage to the current competitors. (Besides that, it seems to a chicken-or-egg thing... if there were more late model vehicles in IP, then there would be more support for changing the regs. However, without changes to the regs, where is the incentive to get started???)

This Tas series sounds brilliant!!!

Edited March 30, 2006 by clayoth

[t01-100]

Absolutely brilliant!!

This should be in VIC. I would be there with bells on.

Well we usually get a few Victorians come down for each round including Mark Connolly - Porsche 968 RS Turbo and Daniel Shultz - Mitsubishi Evolution 6 TME.

Jump on the Spirt fo Tas Saturday night, race all day Sunday and shoot back overnight ready for work Monday morning.

Edited April 9, 2006 by t01-100

[gtstcruiser67]

From what I have read on this thread is that in Tasmania you run a class of racing which is friendly to Imported cars , turbo, 4wd. There are no restrictions and it's quite cheap regarding entry into the event.

I have talked to a few people about organising something along these lines for NSW. But it was only a topic that has been raised a few times with the result being no more than 'yeah yeah great idea'.

I would like to know who is seriously interested in putting together a class of racing to suit the market in NSW. I don't think the idea of completely unrestricted will work for everyone, but you can run a class based on sport sedans, followed by another on production sports cars.

Instead of restrictors you run boost control (BOV's re: indy cars)based on drivetrain and weight.

As an example

4WD/1300kg/1.1bar/9" wheels

2WD/1150/1.4bar/9",11"wheels

One place it would work is a support event to drifting along with Super sprint rounds. Infact super sprint events would be a great place to start. There is the option of running teams in the Alfa Club 6 hour relay (eastern creek, november 2006).The AMRS series may entertain the idea also.

Whoever is interested in entertaining this 'idea' put your thoughts on the thread or PM me.

cheers

Steve

[Duncan]

Steve there are already 2 classes running in the NSW state champs that accept imports like gtrs - production and improved production. You could also run them in sports sedans but that is 2wd only.

Why not run in one of those? there are existing series, competitors, rules and race meets and a heap of skylines competing, there are at least 4 production and 2 improved production r32 gtrs

[gtstcruiser67]

Steve there are already 2 classes running in the NSW state champs that accept imports like gtrs - production and improved production. You could also run them in sports sedans but that is 2wd only.

Why not run in one of those? there are existing series, competitors, rules and race meets and a heap of skylines competing, there are at least 4 production and 2 improved production r32 gtrs

I am aware of these classes and being a avid spectator of motorsport, having watched the racing many times and have infact been for a few flying laps in a Yellow GTR. Funny, I'm sure his name was Duncan also at Wakefield which I will not forget in a hurry. Thanks again Duncan.

I would like to see a class of racing which is more friendly and unrestrictive to turbo and 4wd cars. The way they run these classes which do nothing to help bolster the fields and bring in these particular cars. The guys in Tasmania look to have filled it, so why not do something the similar up here.

Personally I own a R33 GTST that I want to race but cannot. I'm sure there are many others in the same boat with 32's and 34's who want to compete, but with nothing really available to them. The thought of a class suited to Nissan Skylines and/or other low volume imports could open the door for prospective racers to come and have a go. Something like the Porsche cup guys do.

I know it can be done, its a point of doing something about it if people really want it to happen.

Cheers

[Roy]

Id love to go racing...but a single bump on the car would leave me on the sidelines the rest of the year. So Club Sprints has to be enough for me unitl i win Powerball and Thomas Mezera takes me up on my offer for a co-drive...

[Denver]

In NSW and Vic the Late Model turbo guys have enough trackdays, super sprints, drifting, drags etc to compete at, so they don't care. In Tas and WA they have created their own classes. WA was supposed to be finished last year but they lobbied and got their "Street Car" class continued.

Street cars has been given a 10yr extension, for now anyway, the IP people are unhappy, but stiff, theres a lot more street cars than there is IP cars, mine included..

the one really big issue i have with street cars in WA is that they banned 4wd's, and forced them to run under IP rules, this came about after someone spent a wad of money on an evo, and fairly creamed everyone, winning the championship that yr, because the class is running under the sports car rules, all be it a bastardised version of them, they just took the no 4wd's your have to run under IP route and went back to having turbo rotaties up the front..

means that a pile of r's, rex's and evo's who where serious street punters and circut boys, who where considering racingly, suddenly had to slap a restrictor on and slow it down, so they just said stuff it, slightly detramental to the class as i know of several guys who wanted to compete but went elsewhere..

that said, looks like ill be sticking my 33 on the boat to tassie a couple times a year to go play in this class, looks like a barell load of fun, anyone got some rules they can link me too?

cheers

[t01-100]

Street cars has been given a 10yr extension, for now anyway, the IP people are unhappy, but stiff, theres a lot more street cars than there is IP cars, mine included..

the one really big issue i have with street cars in WA is that they banned 4wd's, and forced them to run under IP rules, this came about after someone spent a wad of money on an evo, and fairly creamed everyone, winning the championship that yr, because the class is running under the sports car rules, all be it a bastardised version of them, they just took the no 4wd's your have to run under IP route and went back to having turbo rotaties up the front..

means that a pile of r's, rex's and evo's who where serious street punters and circut boys, who where considering racingly, suddenly had to slap a restrictor on and slow it down, so they just said stuff it, slightly detramental to the class as i know of several guys who wanted to compete but went elsewhere..

that said, looks like ill be sticking my 33 on the boat to tassie a couple times a year to go play in this class, looks like a barell load of fun, anyone got some rules they can link me too?

cheers

Have a look at www.trdc.net.au

Mark Connolley from Melbourne leaves his Porsche down here now instead of taking it home.

The racing is competitive, but pretty clean.