Oil Control In Rb's For Circuit Drag Or Drift

[Duncan]

The point is this...Gary's a tightass...recycles his catch tank filth...and doesn't buy the cheap insurance an oil change after each meeting buys you.

When and where do you race Gary ? You seem to enter events and never turn up. Id like to view your results on Natsoft to see what all your expertise nets you on the track. You also tell people on here you work for certain race teams and when we approach them at meetings they say they have never heard of you.

Gary is the god of all things in motoring and seems to be an expert on every facet of motorsport. He is never wrong.

lol thats an interesting set of questions! I am willing to bet your car has entered more autosalons than ANDRA meets. Feel free to post the dates and quickest times from each meet to prove me wrong rice boy.

[Swiper the Fox]

lol thats an interesting set of questions! I am willing to bet your car has entered more autosalons than ANDRA meets. Feel free to post the dates and quickest times from each meet to prove me wrong rice boy.

The SK cheersquad didn't take long to arrive. Cast the line and get an immediate hook-up...lol

Whats with the childish name calling ? Keep it a bit adult please. Ill respond to your question..ok

Ive entered 2 autosalons...1 x Newcastle and 1 x Sydney Final Battle. Stacey has entered 3 1 x Newcastle, 1 x Sydney and 1 x Final Battle. A total of 13 trophy's between us...nothing ricey about our car as the awards we have won are all power and engineering related. You have entered two Autosalons haven't you Duncan? so you have been there as many times as i have.

Ive been to more interstate drag meets than Autosalon events...so you could cancel all the WSID events ive competed at and id still be in front.

[Adriano]

That sump is nice

[Swiper the Fox]

That sump is nice

The engineering that has gone into that car is awesome. The engine setback and modified sump is superb.

[Walk510]

The point is this...Gary's a tightass...recycles his catch tank filth...and doesn't buy the cheap insurance an oil change after each meeting buys you.

When and where do you race Gary ? You seem to enter events and never turn up. Id like to view your results on Natsoft to see what all your expertise nets you on the track. You also in the past told people on here including me you work for certain race teams and when we approach them at meetings they say they have never heard of you.

Gary is the god of all things in motoring and seems to be an expert on every facet of motorsport. He is never wrong.

Someone PM'd me today and made a very fitting statement..." funny how sydneykid always has a way of changing answer to mend things he has said, helpful in a self promotional fashion. "

I came into this thread to just throw a few ideas around...getting some good discussion going and thinking outside the square. Everyone blindly following anything Sydneykid writes is not always the way to go. He has some good idea's but not everything he suggests is the right thing to do.

hehehhe calling someone else tightass after they spend all that money on a car to go fast yet cant shift into 4th ??? becouse they weren't preped enough to put a chute on and be legal ???

"on decel our circuit car at superlap (due to the poorly set-up system) sprayed oil out the inlet and shorted out the afm's"

how could you let one of your cars go out on a circut with a less that perfect catch can set up

i found another intresting link

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/member-dirtgarage.html

what happened ?

[STATUS]

That sump is nice

meh on the sump, check out the steering

[r33_racer]

yeh im with Tent...the sump looks average....that steering rack setup...very nice! Gives me an idea on what to do with ours in the race car! haha

Edited July 13, 2009 by r33_racer

[Sydneykid]

What is the benefit of recycling your blow by back into the sump? Please tell me it's something more meaningful than not having to fill up the oil as often. Also, what kind of filtration system would you run that filters the fuel vapor from the oil vapor and only returns the oil back into the sump? And yes, I know this is all a moot point since your engines have zero blow by, I'm just saying for the average street/strip car out there that does.

In long races returning the oil to sump makes sense. Tell me what is the difference between oil in the catch can and oil in the sump? If the oil in the sump has fuel vapour in it, then the oil in the catch can will have less, because it has been aerated on its way from the cam covers to the catch can. So if there is fuel vapour problem in the catch can return then then is an even bigger problem with the oil already in the sump.

I don't see any difference between what's in the catch can and what the dry sump scavenge stage from the cam covers picks up. And that's returned to the dry sump tank and reused. So why are the catch can returns any different?

My response was regarding race cars, contamination and oil changes

For people arguing about oil contamination that argument is flawed in a race car as the oil would be changed after every race anyway.

and I replied about race cars, race car oil contamination and race car oil changes, the average street/strip guy has different requirements, different set ups and different skill sets.

Cheers

Gary

[Swiper the Fox]

hehehhe calling someone else tightass after they spend all that money on a car to go fast yet cant shift into 4th ??? becouse they weren't preped enough to put a chute on and be legal ???

"on decel our circuit car at superlap (due to the poorly set-up system) sprayed oil out the inlet and shorted out the afm's"

how could you let one of your cars go out on a circut with a less that perfect catch can set up

i found another intresting link

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/member-dirtgarage.html

what happened ?

Walk510...you have looked like a tool correcting people in other threads only to have incorrect imformation yourself and obviously no clue what you were talking about...i could have had a dig but thought it best to laugh at you and leave it at that...im sure the egg on your face would still smell. If your going to try to be funny use your own material...don't steal others humour please.

big mistake was learned on the Superlap car...yes i am first to admit i overlooked the set-up installed by another workshop. This was an error on my behalf...unlike others i actually do f*ck things up from time to time this is how lessons are learnt. The f*cked thing was the workshop owner and fellow competitor refused to help Dave (cars owner) when he approached them for help. What a wanker. To be honest we realised the engine was a heavy breather as it was smoky from the day Dave brought the car back from Sydney...but i didn't expect it to breathe over a litre of oil on the outlap. Big name workshops f*cking poor fella's over with crappy workmanship and charging megabucks was the catalist for me helping a few guys out with engines. I told Dave to bring the car home after the workshop lunched the engine on the dyno but because his parents business was a supplier to them they made him leave it there to be fixed. Dave's parents now acknowledge this as a huge error on their behalf...they now have nothing to do with the proprietor or the workshop.

The pommies banned me for trying to sell my drag car on there....they said i was a trader for trying to sell my 'companies drag car'...lol...banned for life...go figure!

Edited July 13, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[Swiper the Fox]

In long races returning the oil to sump makes sense. Tell me what is the difference between oil in the catch can and oil in the sump? If the oil in the sump has fuel vapour in it, then the oil in the catch can will have less, because it has been aerated on its way from the cam covers to the catch can. So if there is fuel vapour problem in the catch can return then then is an even bigger problem with the oil already in the sump.

I don't see any difference between what's in the catch can and what the dry sump scavenge stage from the cam covers picks up. And that's returned to the dry sump tank and reused. So why are the catch can returns any different?

My response was regarding race cars, contamination and oil changes

and I replied about race cars, race car oil contamination and race car oil changes, the average street/strip guy has different requirements, different set ups and different skill sets.

Cheers

Gary

Gary you need one of these...it may have been useful with the above post hole you dug.

Edited July 13, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[Cjmartz2k]

In long races returning the oil to sump makes sense.

Why? If your engines have no blow by, they aren't burning oil anyways. Even if they did, are you really going to eat enough oil over a couple hours of WOT to need it? Again, I'm coming from a street/strip car mindset. I know you are talking about built/prepped race cars, but most of the people reading this are not, and are wondering what's best for their car. Needing to drain your blow by back into the sump because your worried about running low on oil during a long race should be the exception to the rule, not the standard.

Tell me what is the difference between oil in the catch can and oil in the sump? If the oil in the sump has fuel vapour in it, then the oil in the catch can will have less, because it has been aerated on its way from the cam covers to the catch can. So if there is fuel vapour problem in the catch can return then then is an even bigger problem with the oil already in the sump.

I don't see any difference between what's in the catch can and what the dry sump scavenge stage from the cam covers picks up. And that's returned to the dry sump tank and reused. So why are the catch can returns any different?

The vapor making it out to the catch can is hitting a much "colder" surface and condensing out more readily than inside the engine. Also, the blow by vapor is NOT the same content as the oil that is whipped up and suspended in the air (which is what the cam baffles are keeping from escaping). If it were, you would have just as much blow by with out you engine being a "breather". Even if your lucky and it is only burnt oil getting past the rings (and I still maintain there is a lot of unburnt fuel in there), do you want condensed burnt oil vapors going back into your sump? People spend all this money on expensive top of the line oils and change them often just to put garbage right back into the oil. I don't understand it.

What difference is there between the blow by in the catch can and the oil in your sump? Smell a cup of each and tell me if you can sense a difference. Fuel smell is what you'll smell I'd wager.

[Swiper the Fox]

Why? If your engines have no blow by, they aren't burning oil anyways. Even if they did, are you really going to eat enough oil over a couple hours of WOT to need it? Again, I'm coming from a street/strip car mindset. I know you are talking about built/prepped race cars, but most of the people reading this are not, and are wondering what's best for their car. Needing to drain your blow by back into the sump because your worried about running low on oil during a long race should be the exception to the rule, not the standard.

The vapor making it out to the catch can is hitting a much "colder" surface and condensing out more readily than inside the engine. Also, the blow by vapor is NOT the same content as the oil that is whipped up and suspended in the air (which is what the cam baffles are keeping from escaping). If it were, you would have just as much blow by with out you engine being a "breather". Even if your lucky and it is only burnt oil getting past the rings (and I still maintain there is a lot of unburnt fuel in there), do you want condensed burnt oil vapors going back into your sump? People spend all this money on expensive top of the line oils and change them often just to put garbage right back into the oil. I don't understand it.

What difference is there between the blow by in the catch can and the oil in your sump? Smell a cup of each and tell me if you can sense a difference. Fuel smell is what you'll smell I'd wager.

Spot on...great post.

Ill save over the next 12 months my catch tank oil...Gary, you can run it in your engine after your 4th race oil change (id still like to know where and when you actually are racing). Id say your bearings wont last the outlap!

Edited July 14, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[Cjmartz2k]

***Add on--the baffles keep splashed/suspended oil from escaping into the blow by lines. That's what the factory put them there for. I'm sure you've had the oil cap off while the engine is running before. Even at idle, there is a decent amount of oil splashing it's way out of that little hole. Imagine it at 8k rpm. Also, the factory breathers are under slight vacuum due to the venturi effect when the blow by hose is connected to the intake piping. TO get the same effect in big turbo aftermarket set ups, a lot of the supra guys in the states run their blow by dumps into the exhaust with the same effect of creating slight vacuum and clearing out the crank case gasses better.

[Sydneykid]

Before I get into reply mode, you're not wrong in what you say. But your aren't looking at the complete picture.

Why? If your engines have no blow by, they aren't burning oil anyways.

It's not just blow by, in fact almost none of it is blow by. There is some unavoidable oil surge in the cylinder head due to the G forces, that's why we separate the oil from the fumes in the catch can system.

Even if they did, are you really going to eat enough oil over a couple hours of WOT to need it? Again, I'm coming from a street/strip car mindset. I know you are talking about built/prepped race cars, but most of the people reading this are not, and are wondering what's best for their car. Needing to drain your blow by back into the sump because your worried about running low on oil during a long race should be the exception to the rule, not the standard.

Remember we are separating fumes from liquid, that's what a decent catch can system does, and the fumes go out the catch can filter. Plus we aren't tallking about a fumey 200,000 k road engine here, its a fresh race engine with less than 5% leak down.

The vapor making it out to the catch can is hitting a much "colder" surface and condensing out more readily than inside the engine.

The catch can in my engine bay is actually quite warm, around engine water temperature (85 to 95 degrees) for the front mounted one and a little warmer for the other cars where it is nearer/above the exhaust.

Also, the blow by vapor is NOT the same content as the oil that is whipped up and suspended in the air (which is what the cam baffles are keeping from escaping). If it were, you would have just as much blow by with out you engine being a "breather". Even if your lucky and it is only burnt oil getting past the rings (and I still maintain there is a lot of unburnt fuel in there), do you want condensed burnt oil vapors going back into your sump?

Tell me what the difference is between what you have described above and a dry sump scavenge system? Except one goes to dry sump tank, in the boot in our case, so it is most definitly colder than an underbonnet catch can.

There isn't a lot of unburn fuel in the oil of a race engine. If there is, then there is either a problem (leaking injector for example) or the tune is way off.

People spend all this money on expensive top of the line oils and change them often just to put garbage right back into the oil. I don't understand it.

Quite simply it's not garbage.

What difference is there between the blow by in the catch can and the oil in your sump? Smell a cup of each and tell me if you can sense a difference. Fuel smell is what you'll smell I'd wager.

You can wager all you like, I prefer to get the oil tested for hydrocarbons. Plus race fuel, say Elf TurboEvo (nee TurboMax) has 50% distillation at 100 degrees c. Which is below engine oil internal operating temperatures.

In conclusion, think about a negative crank case pressure dry sump system used in many race cars and what over scavenging means to you thoughts above. Any vapours in the engine are most certainly pumped to the dry sum tank, what stays as vapours flow out to the catch can. What condenses stay in the dry sump tank and goes back in to the engine. Exaclty the same process as I have used.

Cheers

Gary

[discopotato03]

This has been a really interesting thread and many different ideas have been brought to the table .

I am no one , except a learner , in the grand scheme of things so I have nothing to add .

Maybe it's suffice to say that different people have had varying levels of success in this area so what they've learnt and applied works for them .

It sounds to me like there is differing requirements for street strip/dedicated race/dedicated drag race .

I think the issue is that people come here for advice and get a number of conflicting methodologies and a bit of a war erupts .

When I was younger , and sillier , I asked a number of people how to go about things and got confused and growled at for questioning and comparing different peoples solutions .

A wise person eventually took me aside and said look you have to pick one person and try to learn from them otherwise you won't get anywhere unless you do it all yourself .

Cheers A .

[GT-RZ]

This has been a really interesting thread and many different ideas have been brought to the table .

I am no one , except a learner , in the grand scheme of things so I have nothing to add .

Maybe it's suffice to say that different people have had varying levels of success in this area so what they've learnt and applied works for them .

It sounds to me like there is differing requirements for street strip/dedicated race/dedicated drag race .

I think the issue is that people come here for advice and get a number of conflicting methodologies and a bit of a war erupts .

When I was younger , and sillier , I asked a number of people how to go about things and got confused and growled at for questioning and comparing different peoples solutions .

A wise person eventually took me aside and said look you have to pick one person and try to learn from them otherwise you won't get anywhere unless you do it all yourself .

Cheers A .

I would agree with that all the way.

There is allot of talent and success on these forums, be it learned from paper, teacher or experience but everyone eventually comes to there own conclusion on the way to do things.

This is the reason i take most note of those who accomplish what i would like to do. If i want an 8 second drag car then i'd be bothering R.I.P.S and dirtgarage all the way - they have been there, done that.

If i want a fast track car then where else better to look than the very best - tsukuba lap champions, m speed clearly are offering the best way to do things for that discipline. I use a wet sump and so do they. Any principle they think is good enough for them is most definitely good enough for me. To add to that i love the innovation of prostock it appears so far ahead and shows of what is to come. Inspiration and motivation for everyone who tries to fix there own problems.

There is never right or wrong, disadvantages to every setup. It's always the way and a top class car at any specific discipline will never be top class in another.

What is foolish is to turn down new ideas and bombard people with specific corners and numbers and a "i'm right your wrong attitude" those are the people that will fall behind in many ways. An open-forward thinking attitude in a discussive manner is always the way forwards in engineering. Always has been. No one man knows the best way to do everything and no idea was ever thought of by one man.

In dirtgarages defence why does it matter that he has had trouble in the past? I have a saying that i always stand by

"without failure there could be no success"

If you don't learn the boundaries of failure you will never develop any system of control.

Edited July 14, 2009 by GT-RZ

[Cjmartz2k]

SydneyKid--I'll be the first to admit to just went way past my experience in relation to the dry sump set up. While I know what they are, I've never worked with one nor have seen a car in more than passing that has one, so I can't really argue that point. I think we are discussing from two different view points. I'll argue till I'm blue in the face that in a daily driven and weekend track toy, draining the catch can back into the sump is a bad idea, and thus a bad idea for 95% of the people on the forum. I can't speak from anything other than conjecture about your type of application, so I well relent the point when it comes to track only cars. I still don't see enough of a benefit vs. potential side effects like oil contamination, but it's theoretical to me and daily practice for you, so I think I would be being a bit of an "internet mechanic" (which is something I loath) to argue otherwise.

One last point I would like to make more to clarify my position more than anything else is I don't think what comes out of the hose has any useful oil in it. While there may be some, I think the baffles in the valve covers get 95% of the good oil that was in the gas back into the head since I believe the only good oil is just suspended in small droplets after it got whipped up. I believe the vapor that is left, while still containing a small bit off suspended oil, contains mostly carbon, unburnt fuel, and burnt oil. All the nastiness from the combustion chamber that didn't stay where it should. I think when you try and get the last little bit of oil out of that, you are also getting some of the bad things. It may not be as dramatic as I think, but in a street car, is it really worth the chance? Again, I understand you aren't talking about street cars. That was more aimed at people reading this trying to figure out what to do about there set up.

DiscoP and GTRZ-- I completely agree with not being closed minded and not getting so caught up in your own argument you can't hear the other side. I may be guilty of that at times, especially on this forum, and I apologize for the times I have. I (maybe incorrectly) perceive that, as DirtGarage mentioned, there seems to be a bit of a cheering squad here on SAU that constantly repeat the same commonly held and espoused beliefs/views of a few people on here with actual experience and/or a high post count (NOT directed at anybody in particular). My thread about Holset turbos was a good example. Me and DiscoP had some great converstation and he brought up some excellent points. What I hate is the guys who post up "just get a GT30r and be done with it. No reason not to do it correctly" and "quit mucking about with old tech diesel turbo's" when the same people have never ran anything other than a stock turbo on their stock R33 GTSt.

DirtGarage--I'm pretty sure my views fall in line with yours on most things, but I can't say that I've had NEAR as much experience as either you or sydneykid, especially when it comes to open tracking type stuff.

And just to lighten up the mood a bit............

Edited July 14, 2009 by Cjmartz2k

[Swiper the Fox]

There is never right or wrong, disadvantages to every setup. It's always the way and a top class car at any specific discipline will never be top class in another.

What is foolish is to turn down new ideas and bombard people with specific corners and numbers and a "i'm right your wrong attitude" those are the people that will fall behind in many ways. An open-forward thinking attitude in a discussive manner is always the way forwards in engineering. Always has been. No one man knows the best way to do everything and no idea was ever thought of by one man.

The above paragraph is a pearler.

Ive got people thinking...that was my aim. Taking one mans gospel as a given is a bit too common here especially when it involves certain people. Ive not all the answers as im finding new stuff out almost every week...but i try to help people out when and where i can. Some people will never learn anything because they are too pigheaded to listen to anyones views and admit that someone may have a better option or may actually have tested things and proven that theory doen't always transfer across into practice. When im wrong i easily admit it and when i cross the line i try and put it right and apoligise...no one is perfect.

To the uninitiated it may appear ive singled out Gary and targeted him...maybe so but only for the good of furthering knowledge and this forum. Gary has been caught out bulsh1tting to me in the past and anyone who that thinks that lying to me is quickly forgotten is wrong...i put them in the same basket as thieves. No apoligy was forthcoming so sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

Take it away Blitz...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JJ7oGHwMTI

Edited July 14, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[Sydneykid]

SydneyKid--I'll be the first to admit to just went way past my experience in relation to the dry sump set up. While I know what they are, I've never worked with one nor have seen a car in more than passing that has one, so I can't really argue that point. I think we are discussing from two different view points. I'll argue till I'm blue in the face that in a daily driven and weekend track toy, draining the catch can back into the sump is a bad idea, and thus a bad idea for 95% of the people on the forum. I can't speak from anything other than conjecture about your type of application, so I well relent the point when it comes to track only cars. I still don't see enough of a benefit vs. potential side effects like oil contamination, but it's theoretical to me and daily practice for you, so I think I would be being a bit of an "internet mechanic" (which is something I loath) to argue otherwise.

One last point I would like to make more to clarify my position more than anything else is I don't think what comes out of the hose has any useful oil in it. While there may be some, I think the baffles in the valve covers get 95% of the good oil that was in the gas back into the head since I believe the only good oil is just suspended in small droplets after it got whipped up. I believe the vapor that is left, while still containing a small bit off suspended oil, contains mostly carbon, unburnt fuel, and burnt oil. All the nastiness from the combustion chamber that didn't stay where it should. I think when you try and get the last little bit of oil out of that, you are also getting some of the bad things. It may not be as dramatic as I think, but in a street car, is it really worth the chance? Again, I understand you aren't talking about street cars. That was more aimed at people reading this trying to figure out what to do about there set up.

DiscoP and GTRZ-- I completely agree with not being closed minded and not getting so caught up in your own argument you can't hear the other side. I may be guilty of that at times, especially on this forum, and I apologize for the times I have. I (maybe incorrectly) perceive that, as DirtGarage mentioned, there seems to be a bit of a cheering squad here on SAU that constantly repeat the same commonly held and espoused beliefs/views of a few people on here with actual experience and/or a high post count (NOT directed at anybody in particular). My thread about Holset turbos was a good example. Me and DiscoP had some great converstation and he brought up some excellent points. What I hate is the guys who post up "just get a GT30r and be done with it. No reason not to do it correctly" and "quit mucking about with old tech diesel turbo's" when the same people have never ran anything other than a stock turbo on their stock R33 GTSt.

DirtGarage--I'm pretty sure my views fall in line with yours on most things, but I can't say that I've had NEAR as much experience as either you or sydneykid, especially when it comes to open tracking type stuff.

And just to lighten up the mood a bit............

The problem is the baffling inside the cam covers is not up to the task when we introduce the level and variety of G forces we encounter. In some classes of racing we are not allowed to change the standard baffling (ie; Combined Touring which Duncan races in). But the layout and design of catch cans is always free. Since we can't fix it inside the engine, we do it outside.

I actually enjoy a good debate because I always learn something and I certainly don't consider a good quality debate arguing. What I do not like is people playing the man not the topic.

Cheers

Gary

[Walk510]

Walk510...you have looked like a tool correcting people in other threads only to have incorrect imformation yourself and obviously no clue what you were talking about...i could have had a dig but thought it best to laugh at you and leave it at that...im sure the egg on your face would still smell. If your going to try to be funny use your own material...don't steal others humour please.

big mistake was learned on the Superlap car...yes i am first to admit i overlooked the set-up installed by another workshop. This was an error on my behalf...unlike others i actually do f*ck things up from time to time this is how lessons are learnt. The f*cked thing was the workshop owner and fellow competitor refused to help Dave (cars owner) when he approached them for help. What a wanker. To be honest we realised the engine was a heavy breather as it was smoky from the day Dave brought the car back from Sydney...but i didn't expect it to breathe over a litre of oil on the outlap. Big name workshops f*cking poor fella's over with crappy workmanship and charging megabucks was the catalist for me helping a few guys out with engines. I told Dave to bring the car home after the workshop lunched the engine on the dyno but because his parents business was a supplier to them they made him leave it there to be fixed. Dave's parents now acknowledge this as a huge error on their behalf...they now have nothing to do with the proprietor or the workshop.

The pommies banned me for trying to sell my drag car on there....they said i was a trader for trying to sell my 'companies drag car'...lol...banned for life...go figure!

hmm well DiRTgarage not that ive ever met you though from your internet prowess your hektik

as for my correcting people on other threads i was hoping people would have more of a brain to mix drag tyre's with radials yes plain stupid not my doing though some people you hope should know better

like a comitted drag racer with a car trying to do 140+mph yet not running a chute ???

like the vipec has better data logging than motec ??? when will we see vipec in v8 super car ??? with it's 4mb logging ???

and when you take ownership and say there "our" cars take some ownership when they f**k up and dont just blame others for there shortcomings when your said to be in you team who plumbs blowby back into the intake ?????? even on a big hp road car ???

as for humor i commented in the winterhnats thread and said something like "doesn't vipec come with a chute function" and your reply via PM was

DiRTgarage

Find Member's Posts lame, 7 Jun 2009, 08:29 PM

wanker put your keyboard away and come racing...i may then give you some credibility.

you seem to have a lack of humour yourself ?????

respect given is respect gained !

back on topic

my car runs a rb25/30

head ported small cams

custom zorst mani

gt35r

custom intake mani

forged pistons

standard rods

shimmed standard oil pump

1.2 block restrictors "i think"

haltech e11v2

big fuel system

470 rwhp @7000

things i have to go on

4 stage peterson dry sump 2 to scavage of sump and 1 of heads

4 gallon tank

motec m800 with unlocks

motec cdi8 with mercury coils

motec E888 running 7 egt's

motec sdl dash

motec slm (shift light module)

things to come

MCA shocks

slicks

just have to get into gear and install it all

and dont worry dirtgarage i wont be running to you for help i have people with years more experience that will be assisting me