Garretts Gt4088r .

[discopotato03]

Hi all , has anyone used this turbo on anything ? Some punters from the Supra (2JZGTE) have mentioned it and one fella has one on a 3L V6 Camry in the States . It has some very interesting wheels and trim sizes and is supposed to be very responsive for its size . Just on that it looks HUGE which is a pity because its map looks real good in the 1.5 to 2 pressure ratio area . I really like its choise of 78 trim for the turbine rather than Garretts garden variety diesel biased 84 trim size . Am trying to find out if the 82mm GT40 50 trim comp can be grafted on to the GT4088R cartridge with a .70AR TO4S comp cover . If Precision in the US can put the 84mm TO4R comp on them (GT4067R) it must be possible to do an 82mm one .

Another issue is the exhaust housing flange pattern . It hard to find information on these larger frame turbos as to whether the flange is twin entry (split pulse) T4 or "T4 International"/T45 . I think I need std split T4 but have to confirm that too .

Cheers Adrian .

[Lithium]

Hi all , has anyone used this turbo on anything ? Some punters from the Supra (2JZGTE) have mentioned it and one fella has one on a 3L V6 Camry in the States . It has some very interesting wheels and trim sizes and is supposed to be very responsive for its size . Just on that it looks HUGE which is a pity because its map looks real good in the 1.5 to 2 pressure ratio area . I really like its choise of 78 trim for the turbine rather than Garretts garden variety diesel biased 84 trim size . Am trying to find out if the 82mm GT40 50 trim comp can be grafted on to the GT4088R cartridge with a .70AR TO4S comp cover . If Precision in the US can put the 84mm TO4R comp on them (GT4067R) it must be possible to do an 82mm one .

I am in the mood for some epic thread resurrection - no one has really answered or covered this. Has anyone tried this yet? On *any* RB engine? We are looking into using one for a street/drag/track R32 GTR running a built RB26DETT - it will probably be a pump gas setup, looking at running well into the 20psi range but not reaching 30. Obviously as much power as possible without being too laggy is the order of the day.

A big single is definitely the preferred option, to break the mold as much as anything else. The ability to run in the 10s in full street trim is one of the requirements

Cheers

Edited June 23, 2008 by Lithium

[juggernaut1]

Full-race is currently putting these (4088R's) on sr20's in twin scroll T4 format - which I believe is a true T4 footprint. I could show you pic's but I've sworn to secrecy.

I don't believe Full-race puts together "unresponsive" combo's so your suspicions are probably correct that they are responsive turbo's even for a SR it seems.

So Geoff would be your man for confirming your thoughts and obviously your manifold options.

Edited June 23, 2008 by juggernaut1

[2rismo]

Ben Bray had a 4088 on his new Datsun ute for a while but binned it for something bigger.

[Lithium]

Full-race is currently putting these (4088R's) on sr20's in twin scroll T4 format - which I believe is a true T4 footprint. I could show you pic's but I've sworn to secrecy.

I don't believe Full-race puts together "unresponsive" combo's so your suspicions are probably correct that they are responsive turbo's even for a SR it seems.

So Geoff would be your man for confirming your thoughts and obviously your manifold options.

Thanks, I know about Geoff's ones but I don't like to ask people who could be trying to sell me stuff things if I can help it - though one of his twin scroll manifolds could easily end up being used anyway.

[juggernaut1]

Thanks, I know about Geoff's ones but I don't like to ask people who could be trying to sell me stuff things if I can help it - though one of his twin scroll manifolds could easily end up being used anyway.

Yeah I know what you mean. I started asking him some questions and ended up ordering one of his 3071 twin scroll dual gate setups for my sr20.

[nizmonut]

2582 not big enuf, 4088 not big enuf, t51r kai. bonnet wont close.

[D_Stirls]

Here's a thread with a GT4094R that was put on a standard RB20 for shits and giggles. It netted 370rwKW but was severely restricted by the standard cams. They originally said it was a T04Z but on the second page the tuner said it was actually a GT4094R

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Tu...77#entry3779577

Edited June 23, 2008 by D_Stirls

[skylinekid]

if ua actually look at the pictures its clearly a t04z....

[Lithium]

Yeah certainly doesn't look anything like a GT4094R!

[discopotato03]

If you ask Geoff he will tell you that the GT4094R is not a brilliant thing , too much compressor for the turbine .

The secret with using properly size matched TS turbos is keeping the turbine inlet pressure down .

Geoff like a many others found that you have to give up this idea that small/med A/R ratio turbine housings are needed to get acceptable turbine response .

On an effective TS manifold GT4088R's almost always work better on med to large A/R turbine housings meaning for them 0.94 or 1.06 ratio housings .

High torque from a turbo engine comes from low pressure hot sides and its every bit as important as having a compressor with enough pumping capacity to make the power .

People who poo hoo this TS stuff can think what they like .

Your call , have a look at Geoffs USDM "R14" which has a full GTR drivline . I think from memmory he played for a while with TS RB26's which is why FR developed a proper TS manifold for RB26's .

A .

[Lithium]

If you ask Geoff he will tell you that the GT4094R is not a brilliant thing , too much compressor for the turbine .

The secret with using properly size matched TS turbos is keeping the turbine inlet pressure down .

Geoff like a many others found that you have to give up this idea that small/med A/R ratio turbine housings are needed to get acceptable turbine response .

On an effective TS manifold GT4088R's almost always work better on med to large A/R turbine housings meaning for them 0.94 or 1.06 ratio housings .

High torque from a turbo engine comes from low pressure hot sides and its every bit as important as having a compressor with enough pumping capacity to make the power .

People who poo hoo this TS stuff can think what they like .

Your call , have a look at Geoffs USDM "R14" which has a full GTR drivline . I think from memmory he played for a while with TS RB26's which is why FR developed a proper TS manifold for RB26's .

Cheers disco, all of that stuff I had heard or worked out over time - hence the fact that we are looking at a GT4088R, and will probably get a TS manifold from Fullrace. R14 uses a GT42R which is a completely different beast to the GT4088R, I'd be keen to hear if anyone has any experience or know of anyone with a GT4088R on an RB26 and any quantifiable results to suit. I know of one guy who put one on his RB26 in an S13 but then got rid of it before he really went anywhere near its potential which was frustrating, I had been watching that build for ages.

I have theories and stuff written down on paper which suggest it COULD be a "on song by 5000rpm" mid/high 400wkw turbo on somewhere in the midish 20psi range on a built RB26 running suitable mods using a decent TS manifold and maybe even nicer to thrash than a T04Z equivalent despite everyone running for T04Zs as the big single of choice for a street car.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Edited June 24, 2008 by Lithium

[juggernaut1]

I have theories and stuff written down on paper which suggest it COULD be a "on song by 5000rpm" mid/high 400wkw turbo on somewhere in the midish 20psi range on a built RB26 running suitable mods using a decent TS manifold and maybe even nicer to thrash than a T04Z equivalent despite everyone running for T04Zs as the big single of choice for a street car.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Not directly on point, but not so long ago in NS.com.au land someone put up a dyno of a Billet T04Z equivalent TS turbo with ex a/r of around 1.06 from memory on TS manifold on a stroker SR. It had 400rwhp (300 rwkw's) by 4950 rpm. So your estimates with the 4088 being on song by 5000 would seem, in theory, very acheivable.

TS and big turbo's seem to go hand in hand.

[WHITER33GTS-T]

Im looking at a GT42 or GT45 for my 25/30. I was talking to Kyle (6boost) and he said this.

The GT42 will make full boost around 5000rpm with a 1.05 rear, the 4508 would be about 6000rpm,

So now i need to choose a turbo. What are peoples opinions on either turbo??

[discopotato03]

Lithium the GT4088R would be my focus if it were me and I wanted super street power from an RB26 . IMO a 3L bottom end would be high on the to do list because you can generate the power at lower revs which is where street cars spend most of their time . I can't imagine anything worse than having to rev the guts out of a street car just to make the boost gauge flinch .

Actually just had a thought , Geoff was playing with a different (modded or hybrid) "GT3582R" which I think may have been a custom Turbonetic effort . I think it used a different turbine to Garretts std one and the turbine housing was a propper T4 flanged divided inlet or twin scroll one . I remember he liked it because it got away from having to use the hard to find bored out "tractor" turbine housing which I think was TS "T3" flange .

A lot of people don't understand that real T4 flanged TS housings are needed at high power outputs because you can't physically fit larg enough housing ports through the TS T3 flange size .

In this instance the large passages are all about moving a high volume of gas with minimul restriction so you get the best communication (read least velocity loss) between the exhaust valves and the turbine housings nozzles .

The pulse separation of the front and rear 3 pots and the dedicated turbine nozzle for each side means the lowest pressure in each half when the next cylinder blows down through the manifold and turbine housing . An expanding gas will lose less velocity energy when racing through a passage with low pressure in it . If the passage had higher prerssure (ie 6 into 1 single scroll manifold/turbo) then the pressure differential is less so that which reaches the turbine blades is moving slower and doesn't have as much oomph to spin the turbine . Reversion will be up in a single scroll system unless the turbine housing A/R is large and then you lose the velocity to drive the turbine/compressor up to speed at lowish engine revs .

BTW what sort of torque and horsepower figures are you looking for and over what kind of rev range ?

I don't want to raise old arguments but if it's 600 ish then you may be able to make life easier by using a pair of RB26 GT2530's on cleaned up std manifolds and a real good head and cams . You get most of the benefits of TS + external gate(s) and it all looks pretty std - to the constabulary . If you jacked the static CR up to the R33 GTS25T's 9:1 it would make the low end a bit crisper - particularly with those nice six throttle inlet systems .

You couold also talk to Geoff about what he calls the "vertical flow" intercoolers which work well well if put together properly .

Out of time , cheers A .

Edited June 24, 2008 by discopotato03

[juggernaut1]

Dyno of that 2.2 SR20

http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.p...t&id=141793

[Lithium]

The pulse separation of the front and rear 3 pots and the dedicated turbine nozzle for each side means the lowest pressure in each half when the next cylinder blows down through the manifold and turbine housing . An expanding gas will lose less velocity energy when racing through a passage with low pressure in it . If the passage had higher prerssure (ie 6 into 1 single scroll manifold/turbo) then the pressure differential is less so that which reaches the turbine blades is moving slower and doesn't have as much oomph to spin the turbine . Reversion will be up in a single scroll system unless the turbine housing A/R is large and then you lose the velocity to drive the turbine/compressor up to speed at lowish engine revs .

BTW what sort of torque and horsepower figures are you looking for and over what kind of rev range ?

I don't want to raise old arguments but if it's 600 ish then you may be able to make life easier by using a pair of RB26 GT2530's on cleaned up std manifolds and a real good head and cams . You get most of the benefits of TS + external gate(s) and it all looks pretty std - to the constabulary

Cheers Disco, again - I understand the benefits to twin scroll and its one of the reasons I have been bandying the GT40R I am not new to quick GTRs and know the common combinations, part of the exercise here is to do it a different way but hopefully have it still done well but I just wanted to make sure the GT40R itself is really the way to go, and get an idea of the feel etc. To give you an idea, the motor is being built with the intention of sustaining well into the 8000rpm area - its previous engine build was running a .82a/r GT3582R which ran 372kw @ wheels at a bit over 7500rpm and in doing so has already matched power and out done in spool a few GT2530 GTRs on the same boost etc which we consider a successful "responsive 600hp on a single" type setup, As I mentioned earlier in the thread (to avoid dyno debates) the plan is to get a solid 10s street car. I also mentioned it would be nice to pass 450kw @ hubs on a Dynapack.

[discopotato03]

Fair enough , not sure if it's within the budget but if you could get hold of a 1.06 A/R turbine housing that would at least allow the existing turbo/manifold/gate system to be run to their limits .

If you look at the turbine maps for the GT3582R the corrected flow figures jump up significantly over those for the 0.82 A/R housing size .

The turbo would spin up a little later but the lower turbine inlet pressure may allow you to run more innitial ignition advance to pull up the lower end torque .

Anyhow at least that GT4088R is an off the shelf item anyone can buy . I wouldn't like to guess where it would come onto boost on an RB26 , I always thought that external size wise the 4088R was vaguely similar to the old HKS TA45S but its light years ahead BB/wheel design/trim wise .

If you could find the HKS low single cast manifold it may make for a reasonably straightforward conversion and not look TOO lethal to the cops . Granted not to many "EGR" valves are 50mm HKS but it looks less jailable than a largish turbo on a high mount manifold .

Lets know what you think , cheers A .

[Lithium]

If you look at the turbine maps for the GT3582R the corrected flow figures jump up significantly over those for the 0.82 A/R housing size .

The turbo would spin up a little later but the lower turbine inlet pressure may allow you to run more innitial ignition advance to pull up the lower end torque .

Anyhow at least that GT4088R is an off the shelf item anyone can buy . I wouldn't like to guess where it would come onto boost on an RB26 , I always thought that external size wise the 4088R was vaguely similar to the old HKS TA45S but its light years ahead BB/wheel design/trim wise .

If you could find the HKS low single cast manifold it may make for a reasonably straightforward conversion and not look TOO lethal to the cops . Granted not to many "EGR" valves are 50mm HKS but it looks less jailable than a largish turbo on a high mount manifold .

In NZ the laws are a lot looser than in Oz, we have people running around with GT45Rs on high mount manifolds and all sorts of crazy stuff - a high mount GT4088R replacing a high mount GT3582R isn't going to make that much of a huge difference I don't think

Just to clarify, you haven't made any thumb sucks about how much power you think the GT4088R would make or any explanation if or why you are suggesting alternatives to going that way - do you think its a bad idea?? I know the 1.06a/r flows a fair bit better than the .82a/r GT35 turbine housing but I'm thinking we could be running the risk of running out of compressor as well which would dampen things a bit.

The plan is in the next month to completely max out the GT35R and at that stage we'll have a bit more of an idea of what it can give, and that should indicate whether 1.06a/r would be a good idea though at this stage looking at maps etc it looks to me like the GT35R is starting to run out of motivation a bit already. The car isn't just for going fast, the guy would like the shock factor of seeing a large turbo sitting in there - and it would be particularly nice if there is a large looking turbo in there that makes big power and isn't aweful compared to the likes of a pair of GT2530s etc. The GT3582R is a lot nicer to drive on the road than GT2530s/GT2860-5s so the hope is a GT4088R might bring it up to the same as if not at worst a little laggier than the twins.

I have heard comments (potentially unfounded, but) that the 1.06a/r GT3582R is hardly any better at spooling than a TS .9x GT4088R... any thoughts?

[DCIEVE]

Im interested where you think the limits of the 3582 .82 are, and similarly for the 1.06 version? Is the larger housing interchangeable with the .82 (and it is single scroll or twin).

Currently using a single scroll .82 on the 3582 and interested to see how far it can take me before having to upgrade

Very interesting discussion -cheers