Speedworks tuned R34 talk

[rev210]

Jash,

I think we are all on the same wavelength about the CAS knocking. You do it, I do it and Steve does it. And we all feel because we have done the timing so many times (me way less than you guys) we don't really need the light.

XRW was possibly pointing out the situation to others. Then again when he first mentioned it I think it was just a friendly 'dig' at Steve as a tit for tat.

XRW,

I find it amazing to think such bollocking up of very basic machining could occur on such expensive engines. Most reconditioners do this sort of work in thier sleep, you would expect a bit more from specialist's. You must have been a tad dissapointed at any rate. Good to hear they are doing the right thing for you all the same. I guess the phrase 'only human' applies.

[N I B]

Glad to hear that Oz machine shops are OK after all and

that dyno tuning is best done by Australians.

Small ovality won't blow a motor after months of use

only cause blow by.

After PER4MANZ was shafted over that car (sent over for a clutch then not returned)it proves "what go's around comes around".

Sad for the customer but poetic other wise.

[rev210]

Steve,

I'd always get the Aussi boys to do machine work. Kosteki have got the one of the best flowbench setups in the southern hemisphere. And quite a number of our engine builders are internationally recognised.

I agree that dyno work is often best done by locals, at least why not if they have experience and are fluent in the native tongue for communication reasons (ie: shut it off ! my farken hands caught in the alternator belt! --- loses something in japanese translation).

Maybe the jap guy was jet-lagged or forgot we only have 98 RON?

[Denver]

Originally posted by GTAAH

Dude,

I've heard 50 micron being bandied about as the figure that the bores were out - that isnt going to kill a motor if its 50 micron bigger than it needs to be - only if its 50 mic smaller...Besides which 50 micron is that small that it would almost go through a fuel filter and be burnt in fuel.

The problem to me sounds like the car was tuned too keen too quickly, but hey what do I know about tuning a car - I'm not Japanese.

Dont knock CAS knocking - it works alright for us and SST, and I cant remember a car that we've tuned going bang at the drags.

Jash

Differences of over 50 microns actually, theres more to this that im not going to divulge, but the machine work is definately at question, given motors are motors and it could just be a failure of rod/block etc, but the tuning was never out as the power would indicate, it never pinged, so id say the 2 days worth of tuning spent on the thing where pretty spot on..

seeing as it had internals for 1200 neddies, it wasn't even near it full 'keen' capabilities..

[Denver]

Originally posted by rev210

XRW,  

I find it amazing to think such bollocking up of very basic machining could occur on such expensive engines. Most reconditioners do this sort of work in thier sleep, you would expect a bit more from specialist's. You must have been a tad dissapointed at any rate. Good to hear they are doing the right thing for you all the same. I guess the phrase 'only human' applies.

Well we are all only human, but the machine itself was at fault, not the person driving it, as it seems more than just speedworks have had motors with un-circular bores dealing with the same company..

seems to have been an issue for a while, and in true spirit of some places the 'shel'll be right' motto came on board, instead of fixing the problem..

[LUMPY]

I still cant get over the fact that the thing was assembled without thorough inspection. Rush or not, unless it's a kero rebuild for a trev mobile, things like piston to bore clearance on multiple axis must be checked by the engine assembler.

Like Steve says, minor ovality will only cause blow by.

rumour has it it knocked itself to death. what actually happened anyway fool........didnt it chuck a leg out of bed?

:shake:

[GTS-t VSPEC]

It looks like we have all of the local tuners and engine builders having there say, which I think is great aslong as the conversation stays civil.

I must admit that if you rush any part of a job then you are likely to regret it, and if the machinist stuffed up then you have to accept that it could have been prevented by a thorough check.

That said, if you don't like the machinist's work then don't use them again, but I think the full story should be told, excluding names, so that we all know the truth.

See'ya:burnout:

[N I B]

Looks like people should stick to the welshpool area for

their performance work. Per4manz-C RED-SST

I still can't understand rushing a huge dollar motor for any

one, and as Lumpy says hows an oval bore gonna break rods

after all that time.

Stop the bull and get over it.

Has to be a dud part or tuning not bad machining as the problem

would have been there from the start.

[VSPECII]

Well theres 3 sides to a story speedworx the machinists/tuner and the truth

Ok then wasnt the engine of the r34 sent to adelaide engine development for scruitinee

cmon show us excactly what they come up with

and as for not checking clearances is this a place you should spend top dollar to get sumthing done jesus wheres the quality of wk man ship here. WHAT A JOKE

I'd rather keep doing our backyard jobs in our driveway and still be able to beat the bigs boys name brands

quote from john tang jun is the most expensive so its the best

[N I B]

The truth is out there- swept under the carpet-

[N I B]

John said he didn't now if Jun is any good but he needs to

sell it any way and can Per4manz and SST sell it all so.

We tryed it and removed it nuff said. (Cams)

Who had heard of Jun before JT started pushing it?

Trust and HKS is a safe way to go.

[red17]

Unless you lot have worked on the motor and seen the damage, dont come on here claiming things you cant back up.

Never mind telling the speedworks lads to the truth and cut the bull, how about you lot stop bandying about rumour and heresay. XRW has been nothing but clear on what the problem was yet you lot "from welshpool" seem to be hell bent on placing the blame on speedworks in order to get customers to come to you instead. You're all a ****ing disgrace.

Fact is alot of customers still appreciate Speedworks for the work they do, as do alot of C-Red's and SST's customers. In fact Speedworks was open for 96 hours straight last week because they had so many cars they couldnt fit them in the workshop.

Steve, if your keeping up with the news lately, you'd know JT has nothing to do with the company anymore (in fact alot of people at SW would love to get their hands on him, but thats another story). You make it sound like JUN is all they ever push.... yet when i walk in there the place is covered in HKS and trust engine parts. As for your claim that no one ever heard of JUN before JT came along, thats utter crap.

At the end of the day, the machinist has admitted fault, insurance companies have been involved and all is well. No customer has been left out of pocket and all have been dealt with promptly.

Yet i know of plenty of customers who've been left out of pocket from one of the welshpool businesses mentioned. And it aint heresay or rumour.

But that would belong under another thread for another day.

Red17

[Denver]

Originally posted by VSPECII

Well theres 3 sides to a story speedworx the machinists/tuner and the truth  

Ok then wasnt the engine of the r34 sent to adelaide engine development for scruitinee  

cmon show us excactly what they come up with

and as for not checking clearances is this a place you should spend top dollar to get sumthing done jesus wheres the quality of wk man ship here. WHAT A JOKE

I'd rather keep doing our backyard jobs in our driveway and still be able to beat the bigs boys name brands  

quote from john tang jun is the most expensive so its the best

when the results of the analysis come back im sure speedworks won't have an issue in divilging the problem, i can pretty much guantee it wasn't a tuning fault as theres no way it would have gone 8 months, producing the power it was, and doing it reliably, if there was such a massive tuning fault to cause an engine failure a massive 8 months later, if the tuning was so bad, it would have failed in around 8 minutes..

as for clearances, as i pointed out, every clearance other than ovaltion of the bore was checked, which is something 90% of people who build motors DON'T check, as the asumption is made the machinist has done his job right, in this case it was an asumption that was wrong, however now the problem has been found and rectified, it no longer exists, and they religiously check each motor as it comes back from a machinist..

as for tangy, well he said a lot of things and pissed of a few people, but hes no longer a part of the company and back in singapore, so now days all you get is the plain facts..

JUN gear is of a very high quality, however if something else isn't right, even the best bits can look like a smoking heap of crap, and as ive also said before, theres also the chance it was just plainly a component failure, ive just indicated its highly likely, given that the other motors done for inhouse stuff had the same machining problems and could be a possible explanation, speedwork arn't claiming that its 100% a machining fault until an analysis is done of the motor..

[Denver]

for everyones benifit ill just do one post for this..

Originally posted by Steve-SST

Looks like people should stick to the welshpool area for

their performance work. Per4manz-C RED-SST

I still can't understand rushing a  huge dollar motor for any

one, and as Lumpy says hows an oval bore gonna break rods

after all that time.

Stop the bull and get over it.

Has to be a dud part or tuning not bad machining as the problem

would have been there from the start.

Steve, seeing as one of the inhouse SR which had the liners move around on it lasted some 8000km, several sprint events where it had the living hell beaten out of it, a number of autokhans and a couple of nav rallies BEFORE the issue reared its ugly head, then yes it is entirely possible for it last this long before the excessive slap broke down the piston skirts...

and as for stopping the bull, every post i make on matters like this i provide the plain facts, you on the other hand do nothing but say its all bull, and not to just myself but others who dispute you, yet never bother to provide any examples or information to back up your claims of it being a load of rubbish...

if your going to argue someone on a technical level, provide technical information, or don't bother making a bold claim at all..

and as i pointed out in my previous post, if it was tuning, it would have died a long time ago, and once again just for you, ill clarify..

ive only said that its likely to be a failure caused by machining, i have never ruled out that it could have been a part or block failure, and i don't intend to until a clear reason as to why the engine failed is found..

Originally posted by Steve-SST

The truth is out there- swept under the carpet-

Your right, its been clearly stated right here, there are no rumours, no white lies, everything i state is plain fact, not a made up fallacy, if you can't handle that, then don't read what i have to say..

Originally posted by Steve-SST

John said he didn't now if Jun is any good but he needs to  

sell it any way and can Per4manz and SST sell it all so.  

We tryed it and removed it nuff said. (Cams)  

Who had heard of Jun before JT started pushing it?  

Trust and HKS is a safe way to go.

John did a lot of silly things, but the jun gear has clearly proven itself as quality parts, and seeing as jun have racked up themselves a large number of records over the years would tend to point out that they would know what they are on about..

Actually to make it easy to understand, heres why i can make a statement like that..

Junichi tanaka owns a group of companies, called, funnily enough, Tanka industries, now, obviously JUN is one of his off shoots, but i bet you didn't know that Tanaka industries supplies OEM parts to the likes of nissan?.. well now you do, which i guess explains why they have such a wealth of knowledge, and the ability to produce high quality parts..

As for your cams, that would be the jun cams you went to fit into a car, and didn't think re shimming them was required, as they should 'just bolt straight in', well they didn't did they, you needed shims, but that was all to hard to understand..

And you absolutely right steve HKS and trust gear is good stuff, JUN themselves use it so i guess we do agree on one thing..

a lot of people never knew jun existed until recently, i certainly didn't until a few years ago, the same goes for a lot of japanese parts supplies and tuning houses, and you won't know unless you bother looking..

theres a whole world of stuff out there australia doesn't know about, yet..

But comming from someone who belives a wolf ECU is a high quality unit, what would you care about the japanese shops as you clearly know what good gear is, hell, a wolf is far superior to something like, say a motec, isn't it..

Get over it steve, if your not going to bother providing the REAL story, and not a load of as you word it 'bull' don't bother typing anything, clearly you eitherhave no idea, or actually are trying to hide the truth yourself.. maybe i should send scully and mulder your way to find out what truth is out there..

ive happily layed what i know on the line, your the 'expert' as you claim, and know all, yet never pop anything factual out to back up your claims, how bout starting, i might give you some credibility that you know what your doing then..

[N I B]

Denver you should give appols to Speedworks as you started

all this.

I was talking of two sets of SR cams that didn't work at all well

inc grants drag car. Fix with some cams from XSPEED.

Plus we have an SR with some very shagged cams

in at the moment-low ks 2

The GTR cams needed shims not avalible other than custom

made and not considered safe to use so if any one needs

some radiclly over priced paper weights we still have

2 sets of SR cams (used) and 1 set of new GTR cams just

need a set of push rods to make the cam meet the

valves.

I see you are in damage control mode over your silly statements.

Hopfully we can meet at nite masters this time as you seem

hard to find, Jamie said you were the little person in a gray

shirt at the last nite masters but after he told me you vanished.

We do 85 hour weeks every week.

[FIL]

Originally posted by XRW

It has spat the motor as most know, the failure atm seems likely to have been caused by the lack luster machining that was done on the block, and a few others at the time until the lack of quality in the machine work was discovered, anoyingly it blew just before the motor was going to be pulled out, checked, and the problem with the poor machining work, if it was there, resolved, (owner wanted to go for a last few runs at the drags before he went home for a holiday).

It should be back in action shortly, the other problem with it is the stock gearbox, and the 99% chance it will fail shortly due to the power output of the motor, a dog box is the owners next purchase, and that will take somewhere between 8-12 weeks to get one made within oz, and a few weeks to source a unit from japan, and given the hasles the stock box gave when it ran 11.1, itd be better to have a box that will work cleanly so as to make a full power pass worth while of getting kicked out, itd be anoying to see it go just under 10.99 and not do a run near its full capabilities, which is somewhere down to a very low ten and possibly on a perfect run, a high 9..

hmmm... i think i've missed something denver.... didnt you start all this backwards and forwards sledging with something in this post?

all i'm seeing here is denver stating some issues, none of which relate to SST at all....

maybe steve is feeling a little insecure over his work on the car?

[Kichigai]

But comming from someone who belives a wolf ECU is a high quality unit, what would you care about the japanese shops as you clearly know what good gear is, hell, a wolf is far superior to something like, say a motec, isn't it..

In my dealings with purchasing the Wolf from SST, I had been told that it was a quality unit for a reasonable price. I had considered other options and talked to people that run it.

I was never misled into thinking that it was superior to Motec or Autronics. In fact I was told that if you had the budget they were the way to go. This was clearly pointed out to me from the beginning.

I am sure there are truths in every argument, but in the end it all sounds like nonsense. Lets keep the forum clean and free from accusations. In the end there are no winners.

[ix9]

did Steve-SST do any work on the said R34 ?

[Guest Andrew Jordan]

Originally posted by Steve-SST

After PER4MANZ was shafted over that car (sent over for a clutch then not returned)it proves "what go's around comes around".

As far as I was told the R34 came to speedworks with the owner asking for help. It was running poorly, billowing black smoke, wouldn't idle etc etc. The owner wanted more power then the previous workshop was able to attain, and the car finished in a reasonable period of time. (had been in the previous shop for 6 months i belive).

Upon inspection/dissasembly of the car we found things like the end of a bolt welded to a sintered cam pully, a bolt blocking a unused hole in the cam cover, I was told these where for the Autronic that was installed then removed to be replaced with a Wolf ECU, The coil wiring harness had been replaced with one from a wrecker out of an earlier RB motor to suit the older coil packs that where installed. this had splits in the active feed and further inspection showed there to be no fuse anywhere on that power line.

The fuel pump was also changed as a bosch end screen pump that was used could not reach to bottom of the tank, resulting in the car running out of fuel at over 1/2 tank left, and fuel surge at the smallest of corner/acceleration.

We then removed the cylinder head to install a metal head gasket and valve springs. We found a lot of carbon build up on the valves which turned out to be so bad that the valves and seats had to be re-faced as they where serverly pitted. This is a motor with only 4000kms on the clock. there where also where markes on the bore to indicate the motor had been subject to unacceptable levels of detonation. Confirmed by S.Koyama.

and this is just the start.

The second owner couldn't contact Myself or John when he wanted to play as we where working on cars in Singapore/Malaysia so he took it to a differen't worshop again. again someone with to much ego thought he could make more power then Koyama, he ended up pushing all the water out of the block while on the dyno. so final failure of the block is not suprising. (the funny thing is all he was doing was moving the CAS, and upping the boost)

The out-off round of the block which is 2-3 times the max allowed by nissan wouldn't cause any problems with a standard motor, but one making 800hp.. it puts uneven stress loading on the piston and bore, causing distortion and irregular flex patternes, resulting in eventual failure. someone else commented that 50 mic oversized wouldn't cause a problem, 50mic is 2 thou, and that will cause a problem, the extra piston clerance will cause to much piston slap and eventually crack the lower skirt of the piston, I have an example of this for anyone who whishes to see from a motor done about 6 years ago. and it was only 30mic over.

It lasted for around 12months before starting to fail

[Guest Works Auto]

The night that the r34 blew up at the drags i was racing my own car.

The r34 was four cars behind me and i could hear the engine knocking badly. Sounded like bottom end knock.

I can't believe the owner allowed the car to race with the engine in this condition.

Regardless of who built the motor or whatever , when an engine is making these sorts of noises it shoulda been pulled apart and rectified , not go out for thrash runz down the strip. That was just plain stoopid.

No amount of finger pointing can fix what happened.