Suspension Setup

[Cain]

Im after a set of coilovers

one set i have found are dampner adjustable and the other is, alloy with body height adjust,

both are the same cost...

is dampner adjustment worth it?

[`nigno]

Depends on how serious you are about your setup. Is it for street, drift, circuit use etc ?

Height and Camber are usually the main things people worry about in a street/occasional track car. If your looking at seriously getting into some circuit work, then yeah id grab a set with adjustable dampener settings.

Having said that, you say they are both the same price... why not just grab the ones with adjustable dampener to give you the option in the future, even if you dont use it to begin with.

Of course its worth it if its free

[Sydneykid]

My guess is the ones with damper adjustment may be inferior quality, other wise they would be more expensive.

Some question to ask yourself;

Do you know what you are doing with damper adjustment?

Are you capable of finding the RIGHT setting?

Do you have any idea what the RIGHT setting feels like?

If you have it WRONG, which way would you adjust it?

If you answers are no, then you would be much better off with a superior quality shock with a wider operating window that doesn’t need adjustment

cheers

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

i find different damper settings effects handling quite dramatically.

For drift, i have my normal damper settings, and to give you an example, one time I changed my front's 1 turn softer (damper settings on my shocks are 8 full turns, so around 12% softer), and I was spinning all over the place.

So, they are very handy to fine-tune over/understeer without going to the bother of changing stabiliser bar settings. But like SK just mentioned if going damper adjustable means an inferior quality shock, its probably not worth it!

[Cain]

well the non damper and JIC and the damper ones are GAB

[khunjeng]

Im after a set of coilovers

one set i have found are dampner adjustable and the other is, alloy with body height adjust,

both are the same cost...

is dampner adjustment worth it?

I have a set of Koni dampening adjutable sports series shockers in on of my cars...I find the adjustment really makes a differnece betwen hard and soft...and you notice the difference in handling.

High-adjutsbale rattle a bit I found..I fix the hight and simply adjuts the shockers...I get a nice ride doing this for the mood I'm in...

the adjustment takes like 1min

[Cain]

do i need/ want dampening if im just using hte car for a bit of light track use.. also the jic are so much lighter then the gab's thus unsprung weight is lowered which is good etc...

[Cain]

do i need/ want dampening if im just using hte car for a bit of light track use.. also the jic are so much lighter then the gab's thus unsprung weight is lowered which is good etc...

[`nigno]

do i need/ want dampening if im just using hte car for a bit of light track use.. also the jic are so much lighter then the gab's thus unsprung weight is lowered which is good etc...

Hence why I asked the initial question of your intended use...

Adjustable Damper Settings becomes particularly handy when you are going to be hitting up the track, it can change the whole feel and handling properties of your car even with minimal adjustment and imo is definitely worth having.

[Sydneykid]

Hence why I asked the initial question of your intended use...

Adjustable Damper Settings becomes particularly handy when you are going to be hitting up the track, it can change the whole feel and handling properties of your car even with minimal adjustment and imo is definitely worth having.

Excuse me if this sounds cynical..............

So you can make the car go faster around the circuit by adjusting the shocks?

You know which way to adjust the front and the rear shocks to tune the handling for faster lap times?

OR

Do you simply adjust the shocks so that it feels different?

Harder must be be faster right?

So you just make it harder both ends and away you go?

SAY

It's understeering on corner entry, neutral at mid corner and oversteers on corner exit

Which way do you adjust the front shocks to fix this?

What about the rear shocks? Harder or softer?

The reason I ask is because I hear this all time, that adjustable shocks are good for the circuit. But the reality is less than 10% of the guys with adjustable shocks actually adjust them. And less than 10% of them have any idea what they are doing. Only you know if you are in the 1% or the 99% group.

Guys waste their money on adjustable shocks when they have no idea what to do and in fact most of them make the handling worse (slower lap times) by adjusting the shocks. So 99% if them would be better off with a decent quality non adjustable shock with a large window of operation that simply doesn't need adjusting.

It's exactly the same as I tell people when they ask about adjustable stabiliser bars. Before you spend your money make sure YOU are going to benefit from the adjustability.

cheers

Edited March 30, 2006 by Sydneykid

[`nigno]

Excuse me if this sounds cynical, I have no problem admitting I am in the 99%... suspension is not my forte` by any means, but how is one to learn without the correct equiptment, tools, advice and experience?

You can listen to the pro's, ask questions and read articles as much as possible but unless you get hands on experience, you are NEVER gonna be in the 1% by just resigning yourself to a sub-standard package because at this point in time you don't harbour the knowledge to use them to their full potential.

I totally agree with the point you made about people wasting their money however by kidding themselves into thinking they are going to use the extra available functions. However these seem to be evenly priced, and he has intentions of track use, meaning he will probably be surrounded by some people in that 1% that can help him out and teach him a lot.

Its just what I would do, coz I like to learn and expand my knowledge as much as possible. You make some perfectly valid arguements though

[Sydneykid]

Excuse me if this sounds cynical, I have no problem admitting I am in the 99%... suspension is not my forte` by any means, but how is one to learn without the correct equiptment, tools, advice and experience?

You can listen to the pro's, ask questions and read articles as much as possible but unless you get hands on experience, you are NEVER gonna be in the 1% by just resigning yourself to a sub-standard package because at this point in time you don't harbour the knowledge to use them to their full potential.

I totally agree with the point you made about people wasting their money however by kidding themselves into thinking they are going to use the extra available functions. However these seem to be evenly priced, and he has intentions of track use, meaning he will probably be surrounded by some people in that 1% that can help him out and teach him a lot.

Its just what I would do, coz I like to learn and expand my knowledge as much as possible. You make some perfectly valid arguements though

Well said.

I will comment on one point though

resigning yourself to a sub-standard package

Just because a shock is not adjustable doesn't mean it is sub standard.

It may mean that it is in fact superior, because it doesn't NEED to be adjusted.

It may have a higher level of sophistication in its valving such that it handles a wider variety of conditions.

Sometimes the adjustment is simply a band aid for a poorly designed shock.

cheers

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

just another comment on this,

it took a bit of experimenting to find the right combination of damper adjustment to get something that worked with my driving style and car setup, but since i've discovered a "good" setting to use, it never get's changed

The only reason I adjust damper (now that i've found the correct settings) is to make it a more comfortable ride when driving the car on the road....

my normal settings are 4/10 (4th softest) on front and 10/10 on rear (full hard), if i make the front 3/10 it makes the car spin happy, and if i make the rear 9/10 i start to get understeer

(as i mentioned before i was suprised such a small change would make that much difference).

I think, it doesn't hurt to have damper adjustment, provided you're not making an overall compromise. And maybe i am in the 99% or whatever, but I can tell the difference in how the car handles when I make an adjustment! and even if it's just to find the correct initial settings which work for your driving style, even if you don't touch them after that, I say it is a worthwhile feature.

[Cain]

Do you simply adjust the shocks so that it feels different?

Harder must be be faster right?

So you just make it harder both ends and away you go?

SAY

It's understeering on corner entry, neutral at mid corner and oversteers on corner exit

Which way do you adjust the front shocks to fix this?

What about the rear shocks? Harder or softer?

cheers

im just thinking... because most damper adjustable coilovers only adjust rebound... (upstroke) you would make the front stiffer and the rear softer. making the front stiffer is counteracting the weight shift to the front (less understeer) and by making the rear softer is helping the wheels sink (cant explain it.. thingy? ) this making corner exit more grippy.

[Triskillion]

hmmmm.... i dont know nothing about adjusting shocks but i want to learn. i guess you want the front a little soft so the front sinks down abit. if it was hard you would get understeer.....

and if the rear was too hard wouldnt you get oversteer...?? and too soft would spin out coz weight would be shifted to 1 tire at the rear.

can someone explain what i said, if its wrong can they say whats correct so i learrrrnnnnn

thanks

[Roy]

Seriously, before you worry about changing damper settings etc...has anyone even tried playing with tyre pressures???

My shocks are not adjustable, but when i have had odd front to rear brands of tyres, or im too lazy to change swaybar settings because the frotn tyres really need to be rotated to the rear etc...then tyre pressure have provided me with plenty of handling adjustment when at the track....i would just go backwards if i was abel to adjust damping etc as well.

[TracidTrax]

im currently running on Tien racing spec coilovers and have no idea on what the dampener settings should be on with day to day driving or on a track, can some 1 give me some info?

[skylinecouple]

I must say I would have to agree with S.K.It`s simple really, find a set of springs that are stiff but you are happy with on the road.Then find a shock that can handle the spring rate chosen.Shock absorbers keep the spring under control and I don`t think overly stiff shocks should compensate for poor spring choice.I think S.K. was trying to point out that a good; no,....a really good shock and spring combo will beat an average coilover, adjustable or not.If the chosen springs are a tad soft then an adjustable set of sway bars will perfect the end result.Besides, in most cases, a quality set of springs and shocks are usually cheaper than poor or average coil overs and the money you save can be spent on camber and caster bushes with pinapples.Just my two cents.

Edited August 1, 2006 by skylinecouple

[Busky2k]

So how is a person meant to know if a particular spring with a given spring rate will work with a particular non adjustable shock? Is there parameters of the shock that can be looked at?

Eg Whiteline Springs and KYB shocks. How would u know the KYB is appropriately valved?

[skylinecouple]

Hi Busky,

Guess it comes down to feel.The springs should not bounce at all after compressing when hitting an undulation in the road.The shocky ideally would be soft enough in it`s resistance to allow the spring to return to it`s original position quickly but not overly soft to allow the car to bounce.I have tried Tein coil overs with 7kg springs front and 5kg springs rear and found them to be so rediculously stiff it made the car leap half a metre across the road through rough fast corners.

Then I tried standard springs with Bilstein monotube shocks from whiteline.The springs were hopelessly overpowered by the stiff shocks and could not return to position quick enough so gave almost the same result.Not to mention the resistance over small ruts and potholes was non existant.The smallest ripple would rattle the dash very badly.

My current combination is King standard lows and KYB excell-g shocks.VERY impressed.Smooth as silk on average roads and easily controls the springs.The car is so much faster in every road condition.No more understeer in the rain and the wheels stick to the road over the roughest corners.Mind you, I have a few other goodies under the car to but you need a spring and shock combo that works.

I guess for me I decided I wanted a fast STREET car not a fast track car.