Adjustable Ride Height

[(OO_The4door_OO)]

Just doing some market research.....

Would you like to have an add-on kit and sit in your car and flick a switch to lift and lower your car even while you are driving?

I am prototyping on an add on system which is simply bolted on to remotely change the ride height of the car without jacking up the car or taking the wheels off. The system is electronic, not hydraulic or pnumatic (airbags) which means you keep the handling aspect. And it will meet the ADR requirements to make it perfectly legal for street use.

I estimate the total system will cost somewhere around AU$2000 - AU$3000, cheaper than it's hydraulic and pnumatic rivals.

[Roy]

Depends how it is done...if it simply compresses the spring then not really. But if it changes the actual spring seat or ride level without reducing the stroke of the shock....and it doesnt weigh too much then it would be kind of cool

[(OO_The4door_OO)]

Changing form of the spring by forcing it open or closed will never get ADR authorisation, what I plan to do in no way modifies the existing setup, and is fail safe, so your car won't fall apart should something go wrong.

[Roy]

Changing form of the spring by forcing it open or closed will never get ADR authorisation, what I plan to do in no way modifies the existing setup, and is fail safe, so your car won't fall apart should something go wrong.

LOl...yeh i wouldnt think so. But you did say "will" not "is" so

[Triskillion]

sounds sik! so while your being pulled over you hit the switch.... then when you go past the chicks you hit the switch again!! COOL

nah seriously... its a good idea

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

yeah, would be good for avoiding defects, but little else. I think you'll find there isn't much market for this, unless you can make it very cheap, most people won't bother. I guess there are a few rice boys out there who might find it cool, but for me, the expense vs convenience would be hard to justify. $2-3,000 pays for a lot of defects!

try nissansilvia.com, there are a lot of excessively low s13's going around.

[Sydneykid]

Just doing some market research.....

Would you like to have an add-on kit and sit in your car and flick a switch to lift and lower your car even while you are driving?

I am prototyping on an add on system which is simply bolted on to remotely change the ride height of the car without jacking up the car or taking the wheels off. The system is electronic, not hydraulic or pnumatic (airbags) which means you keep the handling aspect. And it will meet the ADR requirements to make it perfectly legal for street use.

I estimate the total system will cost somewhere around AU$2000 - AU$3000, cheaper than it's hydraulic and pnumatic rivals.

If you are thinking of an electric motor to wind up and down a thread, I strongly suggest that you do the calculations carefully based on the dimensions. The torque required to raise or lower a 1500 kg car would preclude any electric motor I know off. The space required would to fit one would be well in excess of that available in the Skyline suspension lay out.

cheers

Edited April 10, 2006 by Sydneykid

[(OO_The4door_OO)]

So far the scaled down prototype on the ground lifts the front of my car 5 inches in 15 seconds. Now thats just one tiny replica of what fits under the wheel arch. Most of the final products parts are not very big and will be quite universal over most cars.

And although torque is required to lift it, those of us who know a thing or two about kinetics, making that much energy is a sinch ;-) and large powerhungry components are not needed.

[Sydneykid]

So far the scaled down prototype on the ground lifts the front of my car 5 inches in 15 seconds. Now thats just one tiny replica of what fits under the wheel arch. Most of the final products parts are not very big and will be quite universal over most cars.

And although torque is required to lift it, those of us who know a thing or two about kinetics, making that much energy is a sinch ;-) and large powerhungry components are not needed.

I can do the calcs, but on 12 volts?

It's not a simple jack, it has to be attached to suspension arms.

What about camber, caster and toe angle changes?

Tyre contact patch, not to mention SAI?

cheers

Edited April 10, 2006 by Sydneykid

[(OO_The4door_OO)]

Runs on 12v and consumes about 8 amps under load.

It's just a simple change of momentum, eg kW and torque. Have enough of one, swap it for the other ;-)

[GTRgeoff]

Kinetics? Change of momentum??

What the hell are you on about? They don't apply directly in this particular application. All the best of luck to you mate but you seriously don't establish any confidence in me if you have the terminology wrong up front which suggests no formal training.

This is a simple mechanical application of torque transfer to linear motion. I'd be thinking you're using the screw thread jacking mechanism on aftermarket suspension base cups or spring platforms using a worm drive. The issues are motors that are cheap enough and sealed to the grit around the wheelstations. They have to be light as well as they are unsprung weight so that means rare earth motors which are massively expensive. The power drain on one you say is 8 Amps so 16 Amps per end or 32 Amps for the whole car. That will kill a battery pretty quick unless expensive energy storage is used to protect batteries from direct load.

Extra weight, extra complexity, extra servicing for some BS so you can drive around on a lowered car at a price that you can buy decent real suspension. Try the ricer forums as Merlin says.

Skylines handle best when they are still at a reasonable height, and chew tyres when lowered without other setting optimised so it really has no useful application to us.

So far you have the attention of 3 engineers who have been around racetracks for a while, and a guy who is heavily into the drift thing, and it would appear you have failed to impress us. I would suggest your market analysis shows a non economic return for the application.

[(OO_The4door_OO)]

Kinetics? Change of momentum??

What the hell are you on about? They don't apply directly in this particular application. All the best of luck to you mate but you seriously don't establish any confidence in me if you have the terminology wrong up front which suggests no formal training.

This is a simple mechanical application of torque transfer to linear motion. I'd be thinking you're using the screw thread jacking mechanism on aftermarket suspension base cups or spring platforms using a worm drive. The issues are motors that are cheap enough and sealed to the grit around the wheelstations. They have to be light as well as they are unsprung weight so that means rare earth motors which are massively expensive. The power drain on one you say is 8 Amps so 16 Amps per end or 32 Amps for the whole car. That will kill a battery pretty quick unless expensive energy storage is used to protect batteries from direct load.

Extra weight, extra complexity, extra servicing for some BS so you can drive around on a lowered car at a price that you can buy decent real suspension. Try the ricer forums as Merlin says.

Skylines handle best when they are still at a reasonable height, and chew tyres when lowered without other setting optimised so it really has no useful application to us.

So far you have the attention of 3 engineers who have been around racetracks for a while, and a guy who is heavily into the drift thing, and it would appear you have failed to impress us. I would suggest your market analysis shows a non economic return for the application.

There is realy no need to get so exited dude....

How do you think they rotate a 2.7 ton telescope off a 9v battery? Just let me take care of the design and you worry about what ever it is you do.

My goal on this forum is to find out how many people would be interested in such an idea, not what they thought of it. Just watch out for the product in about 12 months time when it goes public. Till then I've got to take care of patents and such stuff.

[CEF11E]

sounds like a lot of expese for little gain. Yes it may have its applications.

But for the cost I think most will give it a miss.

I would rather spend the same $3000 on a set of properly matched struts and springs that are the right ride height for daily road use and still be acceptable for spirited driving.

don't take my word as a put off. there are plenty of people out there who would like another gadget in ther car despite the cost.

Goodluck with it

[GTRgeoff]

Look out, he's been to Dick Smith and is using the Tamiya 600:1 plastic gearbox

Seriously mate, good luck but some of us have some experience and we're not exactly overly enthused. 138 looks by members and 5 responses. Actually read what has been put up. It's not just knocks but some leading questions so some might apply some intellect to give some real ideas and feedback.

Have you already completed a patent search to ensure you aren't going to waste money on the application? Try one of the companies that specialise in such business, they may also help with funding searches as well as advise the right government authority for a small business/development grant.

I'll slink back to engineering management of the country's largest spender and all our low tech tanks/weapons/guided missiles. I note our suspension expert has not re-entered the discussion so probably also decided to ignore the whole bad idea.

[Mushroom]

umm is this like the TEIN electronic height adjustables? but as the others said cost is a major factor along with reliability, It would have to handle extreme wether esp where you are talking about placing it

[(OO_The4door_OO)]

The TEIN system uses a hydraulic actuator powered by an electric motor to raise and lower, my system does not replace any components, merely adds to the ride height adjustable coilovers already installed so handling stays the same.

[NateR31]

sounds cool, but not for the money, id test it out for free no worries

[dangerous_daveo]

The TEIN system uses a hydraulic actuator powered by an electric motor to raise and lower, my system does not replace any components, merely adds to the ride height adjustable coilovers already installed so handling stays the same.

As already explained it doesnt. Car goes down, needs different settings for near on everything else. Goes back up, needs to change again...

I think the people that would want this type of product would be happy enough with airbags, or hydrolics anyway. Id be thinking the reason why most of this type of gear is illegal isnt because it is unsafe, but more so its pointless for anything other than showing off. Which the law doesnt want us to do in road driven cars. Showing off becomes a hazard. Also if your product cant be safly adjusted while driving, I doubt it will get very far in terms of getting adr'ed.

The other slight problem you might have is if its only useable on hight adj 'race type' coilovers, then your market is limited even more. I dont know that many lancers that have hight adj coilovers on them. Many of the guys on here have them to handel better, not so they can move the car up and down when they feel like it.

Seriously good luck. But your product might need some tweeking and be better off getting sold to 4x4 guys whos cars are too high to fit in the garage.

[(OO_The4door_OO)]

The main aim of the system is for cars like mine, car is lowered to offer best handling, but to stay within the legal height requirements (100mm).

Problem is when I want to get up a driveway or over a speedhump, some times the whole sideways job is not enough. With this system people can keep their optimum ride settings, and going on less level terrain will no longer be a problem, just lift her up, and when over, drop her back down.

And is intended for the general public, not just race cars.

[dangerous_daveo]

If your car is that low, it does not handel as well as it could, it is that low for looks, that or you have been misguided with your optium suspension height. That or you have 150+ mm speed bumps round where you live.

Thing is, the general public dont have hight adj coilovers on their car. Its a limited number of people whos cars can take hight adj suspension, then there is the people who actually adj coilovers on their cars, then the people who have $3k to pay for something such as this, after they have paid for their new suspension, new exaust, new front bar and paint... when in all honesty their cars would be better off higher anyway from the handeling perspective. If their sole intention is not to 'pimp' (ie dick) around but to be front bumper and exaust friendly. I think your going to be in a very little boat with no padle going towards some rapids rather quickly.

That and how do you get the whole lock nut thing to work, so once you have made the adjustment it locks in place?

Im not saying its a bad idea, I just dont think its going to be overly marketable, or if it will infact get ADR approval. Or I should rephrase. It might get ADR approval, but not be legal on Australian public roads. If its not marketable as your potential customer base is too small, what you going to do?