Ve Commodore Secrets Revealed

[kralster]

So you think car makers should be making more rattely (sp?) 4 cyclinders?

And if car makers are heading in the direction of cars like sivlia's why don't they make them anymore?

[gcar]

So you think car makers should be making more rattely (sp?) 4 cyclinders?

And if car makers are heading in the direction of cars like sivlia's why don't they make them anymore?

I blame the government and the green party for that. Car manufactors should make some ridiculous fast cars and stick it up them. /rant

The VE has somewhat delivered me a dilema.

Im currently looking to upgrade, and for a daily im going to be choosing another Commodore. (I currently drive a VT2 Executive) I will also be in the market for a almost unmodified R32GTR for track days and weekends.

I cant decide if I should get a second hand VZ SS now and wait a year to get a GTR or get the GTR now and wait a year and a bit for a second hand VE SV8 or SS.

If I sell the VT now i will probably get about 10-11500 for it (being on gas and with a few cosmetic mods), although if i sell it in a year it could drop as much as 2 or 3 grand because of the VE.

I would really REALLY like to get a GTR right now though!

DAMN THE VE... grr i want to see it NOW so I can make up my mind.

[2rismo]

And if car makers are heading in the direction of cars like sivlia's why don't they make them anymore?

Because Nissan nearly went broke and Renault bought a controlling interest in them and took over. Perhaps Nissan having 5 or more cars on the same S13 chassis was a bad idea?!?!

Totally seperate issue to them building 4 cyls or not as you'll find their 4-cyl market is stronger than ever.

Adrian

[Konrad]

I tend to think of XR6T/ HSV /monaro etc... as modern day muscle cars, not a sports car. They're big, heavy, and have large displacement motors putting out loads of torque and are great in the straight line.

As for the basic model falcodores, well it sounds cliche but they're cars for australia. Australia has long distances, crap roads, and the people are tall with fat guts and arses. Compare this to the japs where its the opposite IMO so they build their cars to suit the different population and conditons.

I have a r33 coupe that i drive all over qld for work (sometimes driving up to 800km or so each way) which is far from comfortable to drive(although they do have a good amount of room inside of them compared to say an s13, mr2, rx7, etc..), and given the choice i'd rather a fat aussie car for the reasons just listed, they're comfy, roomy, have way better a/c than a skyline, more forgiving suspension, and are alot safer to drive (airbags, abs etc..) heck they're probably more economical too! Being an import I constantly live in fear of if my car broke down somewhere i could be stranded for ages before they could get parts and fix it. But I keep the skyline because it is a sports car and i enjoy the benefits it gives, but i cant afford a second car so its has to be my daily driver aswell, so i put up with the negatives.

Anyway back on topic I dont mind it, tho i think the statesman looks kinda plain for its supposed 'flagship' status. Needs more chrome or something. Be interesting to see what the real deal looks like.

[kralster]

I don't get what your on about.

That guy said i'm an idiot and taking him out of context cos he said they need to build more cars like the sivlia.

Then 2rismo goes on to say that because they had 5 different cars based on the same platform it MAY of been a deciding factor in them going badly into debt?

So are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? because i'm rather confused.

What i'm saying is that the guy who thinks they need to make more cars like the silvia needs to compare the new VE to something more of the same. Unless he's talking about nissan build quality and engineering ability. In which case i agree cos the silvia is a good example of a pure sports car.

On topic though with fuel prices tipped to get to 1.50 a litre after easter surely it's not a good time to launch a new car that will undoutable weigh in at around 1700 kg with a 3.5 litre V6. Look at 380 sales they are pretty much dead.

I think manufactures really need to push diesel fuel as a better alternative to petrol engines. The euro's have been doing it for years and in europe more diesel cars are sold than petrol engined ones these days. They just need to educate the public on the benefits of diesel.

[Dizmo]

Isnt the VE just gonna be another VT or VS commodre or a copy of the monaro. They are all becoming alike nowadays.

Edited April 12, 2006 by Dizmo

[gcar]

Isnt the VE just gonna be another VT or VS commodre or a copy of the monaro. They are all becoming alike nowadays.

VN, VP, VR, VS on the same chassis

VT, VX, VY, VZ on the same chassis

VE is on a new chassis and will no doubt house a few differnt models.

look at the glass house on the models on the same chassis and ull see they are the same.

[Taso84]

I can see holden going out of business in Australia withis a few years. I used to love holdens and hate Ford but the XR6T absolutely shits on all these holden, both in performance and looks. I am greatly dissapointed. Maybe Toyota will bring out a V8 or a turbo car from is altona plant

[Dingo]

When holden employees had the car revealed to them a common thing being said was how much the interior makes the new fords interior look dated.

Now keep in mind the ford BA model has only been around for what.........5-6 years? The first 2 years were filled with many lemons being produced. The years of the VS, VT, VX and the VY commodore were all dominated by holden. So what allot of you are trying to say,is that a car manufacturer who has proven to make a reliable, reasonably priced family car will all of a sudden loose all of their market and be regarded as shit?

Sure there are many fine examples of cars being produced from Ford, nissan, toyota etc etc but hey

Who knows holden could go under with the Release of the VE, but Holden are also sold in the United Kingdom. A modified version of the Holden Monaro is sold in the United States as the Pontiac GTO which received BOOMING sales. The Holden Monaro is sold under that name through Vauxhall dealerships in the United Kingdom. Have you guys seen the monaro on Top gear, and when clarkson reviewed the VT. They couldnt get enough of it, clarkson practically fell in love with the Monaro and then they had the drift episode where they had that top drift team from japan come over and drive the Monaro, through his broken english and giant smile whilst drifting he said "good car". Holden also exports its Statesman sedan to the Middle East as the Chevrolet Caprice, to South Koreaas the Daewoo Statesman, and China as the Buick Royaum. Fiji, Singapore, Brunei and Indonesia have also been Holden export markets.

They may Go under, They may not. But who will be prepared to eat their words if they succeed?

I doubt hardly anyone here will. It'll turn to "oh its not a performance car its a boat" "Oh it cant steer" etc etc, sure enough this is a Skyline forum and skylines ROCK but dont be so negative towards everything.

/End rant

/Run Sledging

Edited April 13, 2006 by Dingo

[gcar]

Holden is one of GM's PROFITABLE companies...

GM is in a bit of strife atm financially, and "word" in the "papers" is saying GM might have to sell holden. But Holden currently has the zeta platform (the VE chassis), in final development stages, GM's future RWD platform after their own fell through. Thats why the new VE will have a deep boot with the petrol tank infront of the rear axle to conform with American safety laws, this means cars can be exported to america, and more exports means more money for Holden.

Holden aint going under anytime soon, they may sellout and get them built elsewhere, but they wont dissapear.

[kralster]

You wouldn' t believe how much finicial striff both Ford and GM are in. They are so far in the red it's gonna take a miricle for them to get back on track.

The stupid thing is with this New VE platform. I think it's called "Zeta" the americans aren't gonna use it or suport it as much instead they are keeping with their horrible FWD passanger cars and their new generation of trucks. Truck sales have fallen so much these past few years due to petrol prices it seems crazy that that is the direction they are headed.

Anywho i hope the VE does well cos it sounds alright. They just need to offer different powerplants instead of the fairly average V6 and very nice V8.

[nemz]

It also explains why the next Commodore will be the most multicultural model Holden has ever produced, with more foreign parts than before. Will buyers be able to notice where Holden has cut costs - and corners?

hasnt holden always cut corners?

[antz69]

a holden will always be a holden, no matter how different to the previous model.....in 10 yrz time they will be falling to pieces, just like all the commos out there

[Taso84]

^^^ I second that

[gcar]

ummm, just incase u guys didnt know

the holden commodore has always been an adaption of a European car/chassis UP UNTIL THE VE.

the VE will be the FIRST FULLY AUSTRALIAN DESIGNED commodore!

[antz69]

australia doesn't know how to build cars...its as simple as that....holden knows well why people buy imports....they are far better quality and much more advanced...i can see holden falling out here in a few years...id choose one of the fords over a holden.....the BA's XR6T sh*t all over the SS

[gcar]

australia doesn't know how to build cars...its as simple as that....holden knows well why people buy imports....they are far better quality and much more advanced...i can see holden falling out here in a few years...id choose one of the fords over a holden.....the BA's XR6T sh*t all over the SS

cleary you have seen and driven the new VE commodore for some time make such a statement???

the VZ is just a glorified 1996 VT, so of course its going to be a bit ratty and rough around the edges.

fact of the matter is no-one knows what its like, so noone can make that assumption until its been out for a few years

[FPV TURBO]

I can run high 11 sec 1/4 mile with baby seat in back and street tyres and still get 9l/100kms coming home.There is a market for big aussie cars and just cause there not imported,doesnt mean that cant handle like a sports car.

The new Commy is welcomed but from a performance point of veiw they will suffer from there extra weight of there suspension and give Ford a big advantage in the stock performance war.Numerous BF Falcon Typhoons have recorded 13.2 1/4,s stock as a rock and one ran a 12.9 just with a air filter so i dont see the Clubsport coming near it.

Anyway just my 2 cents

[Modena]

Meh, think back when Ford had AU falcons... their XR8 was getting slaughered by LS1 VTs... they decided to "officially withdraw" from the Commodore vs Ford battle. Their FTE range was aimed at "luxury buyers"...

Even if VE will come out heavy and slow (which I doubt) it will catch up down the track.

[Rezz]

There is a market for big aussie cars and just cause there not imported,doesnt mean that cant handle like a sports car.

That all hinges on the base cars abilities. If the handling 'bar' is set so low to begin with (eg: Commodore SS V8), theres no reason why you can't add a Whiteline suspension package and then say the SS Commie had "sports car like" handling. The modified car would be light years ahead of the base car. That said, go jump into a stock FD3S Mazda RX-7 then tell me which you'd prefer to drive hard. Yes I'm basically saying the Falcons and Commodores can't handle compared to various other (older) FR cars that have performance underpinnings.

One day I got straight out of my modified S13 Silvia and into a basically stock VY SS V8. I couldn't have been more disappointed. After all the *great* things I'd heard about the Gen III and the SS package as a whole, after a hard drive I couldn't wait to get out of it. The driving position, the numb steering, then wallowy ride and direction change and the brakes! Don't get me started on those poor excuses for brakes... even after giving the Gen III a good thrashing I was left wondering what all the hype was... then I figured it out:

Compared to previous models, the VT-VZ was a step ahead. And I'll agree with that. What I don't agree with is that Holden/Ford contiually pitch their large FR cars as great allrounders that can mix it with the best on a track. In a straight line maybe? So long as you've got the top Gen IV under the hood? I think the Monaro advertisement in Wheels magazine a few years back summed it up nicely - a Monaro three car lengths ahead of a PORSCHE 911 crossing the line first. Arrogant? If they'd replaced the 911 with a Falcon I would've thought nothing of it.

If you read Wheels or Motor magazine you'd be forgiven that the Commodore Clubsport R8 was a poor mans BMW M5... and it can be... if you never, ever get into a BMW M5. This kind of 'veil of secrecy' that hides the VT-VZs true abilities works best with the 'Holden men' (and likewise 'Ford men') who spend their lives buying and trading in Commodore after Commodore, and telling their offspring about 'Jap Crap' having never even driven one... but having been thrashed by many. The chances of these guys being exposed to a proper handling car is almost nil, and thats great for Holden as they can continue to get away with whatever they fancy.

It's a mute point, people can choose whatever they want for a car, and they can like it and call it a V8 Supercar for all I care. I truely hope the VE Commodore succeeds at what it is best at being, a true Australian family car.