Dry Sump Setups Thread :)

[CruiseLiner]

hey guys ive done a search and no info at all found. my uncle races a top comp drag car and he has been explaining the good points about the dry sump setups and why they are good for race engines, but i want to hear about street engines and the setup. i can get stuff modified and machined, etc from my uncles mates in the drag racing scene, but they dont know much about the rb26 and i want to know the finer details on making the correct setup work.

so im after info on setting up a dry sump setup on a rb26 engine. i really wanted to retain the air con still and all the accesories with the setup. where can the pump be bolted besides the air con spot?

whats peoples thoughts on the dry sump setups on daily drivin cars? reliability issues?

how many stage does the main pump have to be? and what else is needed besides a custom oil pan (or does the stock one stay due to the front diff on it? how many feeds into the engine is needed? what size oil can to hold the engine oil and where to mount it?

i understand how they work, but relating the info to the rb26 engine setup is what im after.

the heat treatment gtr uses the setup and he modified chevy stuff to suit.

u also need gilmor belt drives on all the pulleys as well?

wheres some good places to buy reliable good qaulity pumps and parts? rough costs on the individual parts?

how do u know how much oil at what rpm to feed and how much vacuum to suck it back out?

im sure plenty of other guys are interested in details

i can also get rid of the jun oil pump as well with the dry setup? ive got the jun pump, and enlarged wet sump and that stuff sold would be alot towards the correct dry sump setup. im plannin on this in the future depending on practibility and costs/problems.

all the pros and cons of wet vs dry setups appreciated

cheers

Brad

Edited April 14, 2006 by CruiseLiner

[SKY 34]

hehey..same thread ><...I was also wondering if it is possible to have dry sump...

I think the stock oil pan has to go...one of the advantage of a dry sump is to lower your engine mounting position....so removing the bulkier stock oil pan can bring down the centre of gravity of the engine hence the car...

the oil can can be mounted anywhere in the car the size can go as large as you want only, dun know the minimum size tho, I'd guess not smaller in volume than a standard oil sump?

the dry sump is definitely better than the wet setup...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question331.htm

[Warpspeed]

Yo cannot remove, or reduce the sump depth on a GTR unless you also remove the front diff ?????

Lowering the engine much is not feasible either unless you remove the flywheel and cut the bellhousing away. So forget about relocating the engine lower, it is just not practical on a GTR.

So you want to spend several thousand dollars to install a dry sump that will reduce oil wrap around the crankshaft at extreme Rpm. Good idea, it might get you an extra 20 Kw at 12,000 Rpm.

I bet I could get a lot more than 20Kw by spending SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS on something else besides a dry sump system.

Or maybe it is oil surge that worries you. We all know that stock GTRs suffer from severe oil surge. Dozens of GTRs blow up every day and seize engines, because they are a crap motor. The factory oil system is absolutely pathetic and absolutely must be fixed, yes ???

Why WASTE money on something that is totally unnecessary for a street driven car.

[Roy]

The only thing i would be worried about is the size of your reservoirs etc. A lot of dry sumped cars run heaters to preheat the oil before starting the car. But then some cars come dry sumped from the factory and dont have heaters (to the best of my knowledge???)

It seems pretty hardcore for a street car!

[Marlin]

Theo could help you with the contacts and pro/cons of setting a dry sump up, as he's had one for ages on his GTR, ands revved it past 11 grand on a standard crank with no worries. He'd be MORE than happy to talk to you. His # is 0418 742 486. He mounted his pump where the air con pump was, with the tank (15 odd litres) behind the front bar on the left (keep in mind he's a drag racer and didn't have to allow for weight over the fronts causing more understeer) - for circuit I'd be inclined to run it further back in the car, the boot if it's practical/legal?

[R31Nismoid]

Or maybe it is oil surge that worries you. We all know that stock GTRs suffer from severe oil surge. Dozens of GTRs blow up every day and seize engines, because they are a crap motor. The factory oil system is absolutely pathetic and absolutely must be fixed, yes ???

Why WASTE money on something that is totally unnecessary for a street driven car.

Ummm... on the surge... its not oil surge at all that causes an RB26 to fail at all, the motors failing is but a result of other sinister things at work that cause a lack of oil in the sump to cook the bearings

The RB26 is a great motor, you just have to fix its small shortcomings. And they are definately not related to oil surge

I agree whole heartedly that its totally un-necessary for a street car however

[CruiseLiner]

i want to avoid any possibility of surge at drags and track, the engine might be going into a gtr yet later on, so with an expensive engine i want the best oil system and i remember DICKY on these forums with big power setup said he stuffed 2 $40k motors from drag launches with a trust sump and all the reccomended stuff, so it aint fail proof. the trust sump is stupidly deep too and i dont want that.

for the cost of a jun pump $1000

good 9l sump is around $1500-2k

thats getting up their and still not a 100% sure it will cope.

ive spent 40k on the setup i doubt another 4k is gonna be excessive and a waste of money.

its not a daily driver either its a weekend car so around 300km a week maximum.

just cause its hard to do doesnt mean i'd just go for the easy/cheaper option because that can bite u in the arse later on.

so whats the bad points u all seem to think besides costs? also yes the stock sump would have to stay because of the front diff. weight isnt an issue either, its reliability and knowing i can launch at 9k rpm and not worry about lack of oil around pickup.

cheers again

Brad

Edited April 15, 2006 by CruiseLiner

[crack]

peterson dry sumps is a name that springs to mind. i think sydneykid uses them on his race cars.

[blk180]

Gilmor belt drives can be seen as noise polution by some cops and make them much more liky to pull you over.

Sound great tho hear some Gilmor action then see a dirty rotor hahah WTF

Brad

[Duncan]

sydneykid posted a detailed thread about dry sumps on a gtr including the different stages....try a search for it

[N I B]

Ive done this.Keeping the sump strong enough to support the front diff takes a lot of work and planing,Aircon would be near impossible and finding room for the oil tank in a wagon would be intrusive.

Bloody expencive but as the race car its all in cost about 15k to fix every time it destroyed its self it was worth it.Dont think it would be any real value in a street car as Trust sump extensions and your JUN pump are up to the job.The thing i like tho is being able to pump up full oil pressure on first startup and being able to adjust oil pressure in seconds.Next time the cars in ill give you a call so you can look if you want to copy it.BDG in perth have very nice pumps also.We won last sundays Autotrader cup at barbagallo last sunday with this car.

[R31Nismoid]

Brad, if you have the proper head modifications... slap in and extra litre whe you go racing

you'll never have a problem.

[CruiseLiner]

sydneykid posted a detailed thread about dry sumps on a gtr including the different stages....try a search for it

hey duncan cheers mate i searched last nite for "dry sump" and came up 20 billion topics about the word sump, but i tryed "dry" and searched through about 10 pages and found it.

search isnt very specific is it, i search dry sump and u think the thread titled with both those words would come up first wouldnt ya,

thanks again, nice info from sk and others.

i would still like to know the negatives of having the dry sump setup on a street drivin car (under 300km a week use)?

also Steve (NIB) let us know when its in if ya can for a look

thanks

Brad

Edited April 15, 2006 by CruiseLiner

[Warpspeed]

i would still like to know the negatives of having the dry sump setup on a street drivin car (under 300km a week use)?

thanks

Brad

There are several negatives, the obvious one being the very high cost of the system for no real advantage on a street driven car.

The biggest one is there will be more critical parts to go wrong, and if they do fail, it will cost you an engine. My belief is that a dry sump system for the street, actually INCREASES your chance of blowing an engine.

Race cars are different, they get checked and looked over very frequently. Now tell me, how often do you check over your street driven car for leaks, kinked or rubbing hoses, weeping fittings, damaged drive belts, and so on ? You probably don't, do it every time you drive the car, but a race car sure will be checked every time.

A proper well designed aerospace quality dry sump system is horribly expensive for a reason, and there is plenty that can still go wrong with it. Any failure will cost you an engine. THe factory oil system is simple, fully enclosed within the engine, and as totally reliable as anything can be. (R32 GTR oil pump drives excepted).

IF you blow off a hose, or snap a drive belt, it is all over. You might be surprised how many people get into trouble just fitting an external oil cooler, or remote oil filter. A complete dry sump system is vastly more complicated, and it will require constant checking if it is to be reliable.

That is the difference between a race engine and a 100,000 Km+ street engine. The race engine gets looked after with constant checking and rebuilds. The street engine does not.

If you don't believe me, when was the last time you flushed out your brake and clutch fluid lines and replaced all the fluid ? When did you last dismantle and repack your universal joints with grease ? Nobody really looks after a street car. My guess is your dry sump system will develop some problem through neglect and that will be VERY expensive.

[Duncan]

here, check this out: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...055&hl=dry+sump

the search defaults suck these days, it only searches the last 30 days and defaults to general automotive discussion only

[Duncan]

and here: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...859&hl=dry+sump

[CruiseLiner]

hey warpspeed, thats the sort of info im after, thanks mate. sounds like alot of work to maintain it upto scratch, and im sick of maintaining stuff and just wanna bloody use it ive done gearboxes, engines, diffs like 3 times each in the past couple of months but it gets annoying

i still have been told ill have trouble with my enlarged sump as it only is extended on one side and has only 1 trap door setup. will have to either remodify the existing one or buy another off the shelf item.

anyone know some good designs? ive seen the hi octane ones, any other brands worth looking at? i dont want the trust one as its wayyyy too low for my liking.

thanks again everyone, awesome info

Brad

[N I B]

Steve Maitland from Maitland performance fabricators is the man for your job as his done many and his local and his work is proven in Wa rally and race cars.

[Beer Baron]

i quite like the design of the tomei baffles. simple but effective. only trouble is you are still left with a standard capacity sump. from what i have heard for a wet sump the hi-octane (mick metalcraft?) sumps are the bees knees.

[R31Nismoid]

Hopefully Adam see's this thread in the coming days.

Im sure he is still using a stocker sump.

Even track GTR's here in Melb mate use the factory sump upto 400rwkw.

Just slap and extra litre of oil in there.

Like i said... its the head thats causing the oil problems.

Sydneykid did the oil control write up not long ago... a couple of weeks.

I've been lazy and havent added a lot of threads to the info guide of late