Shockers Or Coilovers

[mr_crust]

im looking at lowering my r33 in the comming weeks and confused. i get it lowered from pedders with springs and heavy duty shocks for approx $1400 fully installed which sounds pretty good

no i also have the option of the G4 coilovers from the sponser JustJap, but ive heard that coilovers for everyday driving are shocking ( not these ones inperticaular, i mean coilovers in general) as they are noisey and bumpy etc)

what are your opinions on this...has anyone dealt with pedders for there skyline??

also centreline reckon to lower it proper i will need at least 2500, which i think is a bit much for a street...so opinions plz.

thanks

[lebostyles]

i would not bother with the pedders suspension as coilovers are tens times better. At least with adjustable coilovers you can adjust the camber, the height and the damper which will determine how stiff you want your suspension.

[ISC-Performance]

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thanks,ryan

[nuffsaid]

Tein Super Streets? they are suited to our roads I believe and are not rock hard.

Anybody with experience in these?

[SABBAi]

Camber, and height adjustment do not determine the stiffness. The damper rating does.

How many people are game enough to change their camber setting frequently?

The price of coilovers doesn't include fitting. They can be harsher ride, but then you can have more adjustability. For set and forget value, a lower spring and uprated shocks are great.

Do you need to have it adjustable?

[Roy]

i would not bother with the pedders suspension as coilovers are tens times better. At least with adjustable coilovers you can adjust the camber, the height and the damper which will determine how stiff you want your suspension.

Skylines use whishbones so you cant change camber like you can on S13s which use struts.

ALL Skylines use coil over std. Keep that in mind when you are talkign to shops. Ppl seem to generlly mean adjustable height etc shocks when they say coil overs...but again all R33s use coil overs std.

As for the price Centreline quoted...that would be done properly, so is naturally a bit more expensive. When you lower any car it changes the camber, and the std suspension does not have enough adjustability in it to get the alignment so that it doesnt eat the inside edge of the tyre.

So sure, you can grab your off the shelf Jap adjustable coil over suspension, pay to get it fitted, but then you will be stuck with less then ideal camber etc settings. So by the time you throw in a set of adjustable bushes or adjustable arms, check the other suspension bushes that are no doubt cactus, then there is nothing expensive about what Centreline are offering...its just that the others havent told you the whole story of what needs to be done

[ferni]

What Troy said .... Do it the cheap way and you'll pay for it in tyres ....

[mr_crust]

well with bilstein shocks they can be adjusted with sir clips so thats fine with me.

after speaking 2 different well known garages, they have both told me to steer clear of coilovers as they are bouncy, bad on bumpy corners and have some issues in the wet, so im going with shockers and springs.

for everday use do i need front and rear camber? caster ? and pineapples?

as im looking to buy them with the next 2wks i wanna get what I NEED, not just whats cool on forums and say i got coilovers, i want a decent ride

[Roy]

Like I said.R33s come with coil overs std. And what they have told you is wrong.

What they may be meaning is that some aftermarket Japanese coil overs are bumpy etc etc. If you look at the spring rate that the shock has (Japs tend to use kg/mm, we use pounds/inch) then you can get a very good idea of how firm the ride will be. Also the brand and model of the shock will also give you an idea of what to expect.

Now as for running Bilsteins with some local springs, you will find that these are more often softer then many of the Japanese equivelants, purely because the spring rates are no where near as high. Typically the spring rates from Whiteline, Kings etc in their lowered springs would be around the ball park of 220-180 pounds.

Now compared to the springs that come in many aftermarket Japanese coil overs which can be up around 350 pounds, its easy to see why they will rid firmer.

But if you get some aftermarket Japanese coil overs with 200 pound springs then you are comparing apples to apples. Not all Japanese aftermarket shocks have high spring rates and rebound rates etc.

So if you know what to look at in your Japanese shock then its easy to get something that isn’t bumpy, bad on bumps etc etc. Or you can get very expensive shocks which can control the very high spring rates very well, and again they are not bumpy.

As for needing bushes etc. It depends how low you go. It also depends on the condition of your car. My car when it was 7 years old had pretty worn bushes, especially the castor bushes which were shot. At my ride height the alignment had too much rear camber from memory, so I got a full set of bushes put through the car figuring that if some were shot, no point guessing how much longer the others would last.

I suggest getting things done in small hits unless its obvious the car needs a certain thing done. I would budget for castor bushes, lower the car and be prepared to go back in the next 3-4 weeks and have the camber looked at if your not happy with the tyre wear you are getting.

If you are just after a neat handling street car, then my 2c, is get some lowered springs with the std shocks (provided they aren’t leaking and are in fair condition) and just lower the car to the height you want. Whiteline and King can both help you out with lowered springs.

So what does that cost, about $500 fitted for lowered springs, then the thing that made a huge amount of difference to my car was swaybars. R32BigBoy borrowed my swaybars for his std susp car and I think he would agree that on the street It made a huge difference to the feel of the car with no adverse affect on ride quality.

So instead of getting shocks I would be putting my money towards swaybars. This cheaper option will leave you with some money for bushes which if yours are old and in poor condition, new bushes can really tighten up the car, and stop the car form shaking/.wallowing over road irregularities.

Should you want to buy some Bilsteians, Koni, KTB etc shocks in the future then you can easily fit your lowered springs to them as well just spread the cost over a longer period. But im willing to wager that if its a street car you will be happy with lowered springs on std shocks with swaybars and some new bushes

LOL..sorry but there is a 3rd opinion.

[nuffsaid]

makes sense roy.

which jap shocks do you recommend getting then? ones that can control the spring rate and arent too bumpy.

[Roy]

See that where my bullsh1t runs out of stench.

Im not sure. I know HKS 4-way shocks seem to handle the big springs with no problems. I will hopefully soon see how Jap Ohlins 4 way shocks handle some high spring rates. But these shocks are all in the $1200-1500 a corner ballpark, so way too expensive for most of us.

I know of two cars running DMS that are running very high spring rates and the cars aren’t jittery at all. So I don’t have enough experience of having sat in cars and being able to comment. (Again I have only followed the DMS cars around a track and looked at how the cars handled the bumps compared to the car I was in)

And when I say big springs I mean 600 pounds etc. If the shock is good quality then I don’t thing 300 pounds as being that high really. I think INASNT is running that sort of spring with his off the shelf Bilsteins…so maybe he can offer some feedback.

Anyway…im just posting my thoughts…based on what I like in cars…you could very well be different. Best bet is to get your bum in the seats of others cars and see what you personally like.

But I will say, if it’s a street car and you care about ride quality, then lowerd springs for the sporty look and extra bit of sporing rate combined with swaybars will get you a nice feeling road car with very good ride quality.

To suss out a Jap shock that may be suitable to what you are after, just have a look at the spring rates they list. Anthing arounf 4-5kg/mm fronts would make for nice firm but not bumpy ride as that’s about 220-275 pounds

[mr_crust]

thanks so much Roy for all your imput, i think ive read and re-read it so many times this morning, the only thing im worried about is if i put in king springs (LOW) and std shockers, ive been told that the springs can jump out if i go over a real bad bump and it also will wear them out at a much quicker rate...is this true..

what if i was to put in aftermarket springs/shockers/adj. camber on the rear would that be enough to keep the car low and still stable.

i already have the front and rear strut bars if that makes a difference

[Roy]

I have King springs int he front of my car. I use ot have King springs in the front, then i had Whiteline, now i have King Springs again with Bilstein shocks.

The first set of Kings were with the std shocks...and never had the problem you described. The i had Whitelien springs with std shocks. Again no problem. The i had Whiteline springs with Bilstein shocks...no problems.

So i suppose it is possible, but i would just check with the source of that info as a lot of ppl run lowered King Springs and i havent heard that being a problem. Chopped springs yes, but not proper lowered springs.

I suggest just gettign lowered springs and swaybars, which are different to strut braces. I think you will be happy. The after its all said and done get a wheel alignment and try to get about -1.0 neg camber on the back with about -1.5 on the front.

If you cant get that then you may need to look at th bushes...just monitor your tyre wear and be prepared to rotate tyres until you have the alignment sorted.

And seek the advice of several ppl. I have an opinio just liek many others. It will be up to you to suss out what best for your requirements based on the info you have.

[nuffsaid]

Apart from the look Roy, were there any handling benefits with purely lowered springs?

I did the same thing once with my old car and found the ride very very sloppy (Lovells springs). I then put in Koni adjustables in the rear because the rear was all over the place, didnt make much of a difference. This was all on a Pulsar but, probably much different for a Skyline.

[mr_crust]

i got a quote at lunch time to get it lowered with king springs and fitted/alignment for $480 (im not going to name the place) which i thought was decent and then from there get bilstein shockers from the group buy...

if anyone has lowered there car 1 and 1/4 inches or so with std shocks can u tell me what its like to drive and have u had any issues?

[Roy]

Well I did find that the cars handling did sharpen up a bit. It was firmer as well which made it a bit more sporting. I actually did a track day with just lowered King Springs and it did handle better then std, so didn’t have any major vices. You also lower the centre of gravity, being that bit lower with firmer springs will also stop the thing pitching as much under brakes etc etc. you also naturally dump a bit more camber into your suspension which can help in cornering. There are a few subtle improvements, but typically if you can throw the money at shocks as well then you get a better result. But i do think that so may peoples suspension setups are overkill for the street, where you dont ever generate enough tyre grip, or able to run at speeds that allow you to get to the limits. You basically want to sharpen up the turn in, remove any shocking tendency for the car to swap ends (which Skylines dont have) and firm up the car so it doesnt feel wallowy...well again thats my thoughts. Others may disagree, as i sure know that in the grand schemes of things i do not drive my car near as hard as other ppl on the street, so i odnt demand much from my suspension on the street.

[nuffsaid]

I guess the other thing too is though, we want to control our springs on the street, hence giving a smoother more comfortable ride instead of bumping and jiggling all over the place.

I guess that is the only reason why we'd go for an aftermarket shock (Bilstein,tein,HKS etc) setup.

[mr_crust]

ive been ringing around all morning,

to get a set of kyb shocks allround is $532, and these are non adjustable.

would it make much difference if they are adjsutable or not, would u recommend it?

[khunjeng]

ive been ringing around all morning,

to get a set of kyb shocks allround is $532, and these are non adjustable.

would it make much difference if they are adjsutable or not, would u recommend it?

all the lowered springs do is restrict the amount of travel u have in ur shocks...hence they cannot absorb as much shock....if there are on std shocks there is no doubt u will wear out the bump stops...but thats not a big deal...these can be replaced...get your springs wrapped in some whiteline spring wrap...its cheep, protects the springs and also stops the "clunk" noise when u hit them hard...the lowered springs by restricting the travel "stiffen" up the ride...

I have Koni's (sport) in my FTO and will put the same in my R33 soon...I will put lowers springs but just enough to make it look good and retain a really good ride...also rememebr that after lowering a lot u tyres will rub on full lock (usually)

The tyres and their profile also have a big effect on ur suspension...a lot of people go 19" with 40s and fully skick lowered action..looks great but rides like crap...handles great. its all up to what u want. Adjustable (dampening) suspension is great...I have it...but if u wanna save $$ just go a non-adj set u'll still be quite happy and as roy said suss out all the bushes and sway bars...that helps alot.

I'm intrested in what Roy said and the camber...I have never requested a setting before...who has done this?? just intrested.

Edited April 19, 2006 by khunjeng

[rickhead]

I'm seriously thinking of going the lowered springs/shocks route as well. Centreline quoted me $2500 as well, which i'm happy with as I'm sure the job will be done thoroughly & professionally. My experiences with rock hard coilovers are not positive when it comes to ride quality.... basically they're horrible...

My question is how will fitting springs/ shocks (without sway bars) affect the handling. I do a lot of country driving on very windy roads & normally ( & comfortably) drive through 60km/h corners at 100 -110 km/h. This is with the existing HKS coilover suspension. Will changing the suspension result in a downgrade in vehicle handling under these driving conditions???