Anyone Have A Rb25 Highflow From "sliding Performance"?

[paulr33]

thanks for clearing it up, wasn't have a go was just curious thats all

[Cubes]

Bl4ck32 has a little rb20det turbo highflow from MQT/Dynamic Turbo Chargers (been around for ~30+years).

It spools within a bee's dick of the stock rb20det turbo and makes 220rwkw at 16psi. Damn good effort from such a little thing.

What freaked me out intially is that its a non-bb turbo with larger turbine and comp wheels yet it spools within 200rpm of the stock rb20det turbo. Its an awesome little package.

Thats been on his car now for a good 3 maybe 4 years as I knew the previous owner.

[paulr33]

i see my stocker dial in before 3k on my 25t

its funny i jump onto IGN / INJ

dial out -9 degrgess timing and the turbo seems to wind up nice and quick. the engine doesnt give much zing but the turbo comes on nice

[Cubes]

retarded ign. = higher EGT's.

[paulr33]

yeah i was just fiddling

i wanted to go back to base maps for a bit of a laugh

so i just dialed out -9 using tmp adjust

theres a massive difference on base ign timing

it feels flat and theres like no engine respone or "zest"

[Cubes]

it feels flat and theres like no engine respone or "zest"

Brought back memorys of the ol' rb20 for a few secs there. hehe

[Slide]

Bl4ck32 has a little rb20det turbo highflow from MQT/Dynamic Turbo Chargers (been around for ~30+years).

It spools within a bee's dick of the stock rb20det turbo and makes 220rwkw at 16psi. Damn good effort from such a little thing.

What freaked me out intially is that its a non-bb turbo with larger turbine and comp wheels yet it spools within 200rpm of the stock rb20det turbo. Its an awesome little package.

Thats been on his car now for a good 3 maybe 4 years as I knew the previous owner.

You mean MTQ???

IE Sonic Performance??

They do the same highflows as us basically but have an air powered vsr rather than electrical.

And we do much better prices

Aaron

[Sydneykid]

Gary while everyone appreciates your input on your experiances this in no way affects the warranty that we stand by incase of a failure which has never happened.

The thread asks of experiance with our turbo's......

I do not know where your journal bearing experiances came from... Perhaps with cars that came from the manufacturer released with journal bearing turbo's.

Which you have not provided any background on.

And whilst every one of your posts has been biased towards GCG turbo's given the experience with them, You have not experienced these turbo's nor are you and Paul sticking to the topic.

Regardless of failures in your 15 year experience with bush/plain bearing turbo's technology changes and we move forward with it improving the life of the turbo and standing by the guarantee we provide with them.

If there was a problem with 3 GTR's that had oil starvation problems then you should have spoken to the mechanic and offered your knowledge on how to resolve these issues as its not only a problem for the turbo but the engine aswell and im sure the last thing on your mind when this happens is your turbo.

We provide the modification requirements with these turbo's and as far as i can see as long as they are carried out they can last a long time.

IF... they do fail they are covered under our warranty which is unlike any other turbo manufacturer.

We also sell the whole Garrett, HKS, Greddy, Biagio and Apexi range of turbo's aswell.

Keep in mind that mass produced cars with journal bearing turbo's in the early 90's and even up to date model cars used journal bearings and are still running now.

Trucks in particular cover thousands and thousands of kilometers on journal bearing turbo's.

Also good luck with your group buy Gary... Would you like me to discuss the advantages of paying half the amount for these turbo's compared to the GCG and disrupt your thread without me having any prior experience with them turbo's ?

There is one important difference, you sell turbos to make money. I set up Group Buys to save the guys on SAU some money, I don't make any money out of them myself. So I feel that I can have unbiased input, I like it that way, so that I don't have to put forward a view that I personally don't believe in.

Point 2, I never commented on your turbos, I restricted my input to plain bearing turbos in general. You have taken that as not sticking to the topic. My opinion is I don't want to be seen to be attacking one product in particular.

I can go into fairly specific details on how and why plain bearing turbos have failed. For example;

Silver R32GTR Oran Park November 2004, track day (this is not a race car).

Turn 1 short circuit

6,250 rpm in 2nd gear

accelerator at around 30%

oil level was slightly under max, maybe 1/2 litre

mid corner oil surge to zero oil pressure for not more than 0.2 seconds

#5 big end bearing failure, knock, engine shut down

Rear turbo complete failure, bearing torn by shaft contact

the bearing also rotated in the core and damaged it beyond repair

the compressor blades hit the compressor cover

they shattered and spread metal through the inlet system

the turbine blades hit the turbine cover and damaged it

Front turbo partial failure, bearing made eccentric by shaft contact, no core damage

it took many hours to clean the metal from the inlet system including the intercooler

Yes I did speak to the owner/driver before the event and warned him about oil surge in GTR's. He chose to ignore my warnings, with the comment "GTR's were designed as race cars...........".

Would you like me to post up a few more examples? I can probably do 20 or so if necessary.

As the guys on here will tell you I am a put up or shut up kinda guy, so here's the go..........

Send me one of your turbos

I will stick it on one of the 2 cars that I personally have with ball bearing high flows on them (Stagea or R33GTST)

You can choose which one

Without touching anything (tune or boost) I will run it up on the dyno

If your turbo makes with 10% of the current power from 3,000 rpm to 7,000 rpm

I will pay you for it, post up the dyno comparison and I will endorse it on SAU in anyway you like

But if it doesn’t make within 10%, what will you do?

cheers

[Cubes]

Yes Slide MTQ. My Bad.

http://www.dynamicturbo.com.au/

Unsure about sonicperformance or who ever that is.

I'm keen to see how these well priced (no one can argue with that) turbo's perform when pushed a little harder.

As with the GCG items quite a few ppls have hit a wall around the 240-250rwkw mark.

[Cubes]

Yes Slide MTQ. My Bad.

http://www.mtqes.com.au/Locations.htm

Unsure about sonicperformance or who ever that is.

I'm keen to see how these well priced (no one can argue with that) turbo's perform when pushed a little harder. And for the price if they last a good 3 or more years who cares, bl4ck32's has @ 16psi.

As with the GCG items quite a few ppls have hit a wall around the 240-250rwkw mark behind manuals, I know of one GCG turbo behind an auto that has pushed 220rwkw on 14psi.

Slide.... What would a BB equiv be worth? I'm guessing very close to what GCG charge?

[Slide]

There is one important difference, you sell turbos to make money. I set up Group Buys to save the guys on SAU some money, I don't make any money out of them myself. So I feel that I can have unbiased input, I like it that way, so that I don't have to put forward a view that I personally don't believe in.

Point 2, I never commented on your turbos, I restricted my input to plain bearing turbos in general. You have taken that as not sticking to the topic. My opinion is I don't want to be seen to be attacking one product in particular.

I can go into fairly specific details on how and why plain bearing turbos have failed. For example;

Silver R32GTR Oran Park November 2004, track day (this is not a race car).

Turn 1 short circuit

6,250 rpm in 2nd gear

accelerator at around 30%

oil level was slightly under max, maybe 1/2 litre

mid corner oil surge to zero oil pressure for not more than 0.2 seconds

#5 big end bearing failure, knock, engine shut down

Rear turbo complete failure, bearing torn by shaft contact

the bearing also rotated in the core and damaged it beyond repair

the compressor blades hit the compressor cover

they shattered and spread metal through the inlet system

the turbine blades hit the turbine cover and damaged it

Front turbo partial failure, bearing made eccentric by shaft contact, no core damage

it took many hours to clean the metal from the inlet system including the intercooler

Yes I did speak to the owner/driver before the event and warned him about oil surge in GTR's. He chose to ignore my warnings, with the comment "GTR's were designed as race cars...........".

Would you like me to post up a few more examples? I can probably do 20 or so if necessary.

As the guys on here will tell you I am a put up or shut up kinda guy, so here's the go..........

Send me one of your turbos

I will stick it on one of the 2 cars that I personally have with ball bearing high flows on them (Stagea or R33GTST)

You can choose which one

Without touching anything (tune or boost) I will run it up on the dyno

If your turbo makes with 10% of the current power from 3,000 rpm to 7,000 rpm

I will pay you for it, post up the dyno comparison and I will endorse it on SAU in anyway you like

But if it doesn’t make within 10%, what will you do?

cheers

"GTR's were designed as race cars...........".

hahahah

Your input is always welcome Gary

If you can source out the comp wheel specs and the turbine specs and help me with matching the housings im fine with that.

Providing both turbo's are the same and the "oil lines and bolts" are modified this could be quite interesting.

The only problem will be finding the exact same comp wheel and shaft.

Yes Slide MTQ. My Bad.

http://www.mtqes.com.au/Locations.htm

Unsure about sonicperformance or who ever that is.

I'm keen to see how these well priced (no one can argue with that) turbo's perform when pushed a little harder. And for the price if they last a good 3 or more years who cares, bl4ck32's has @ 16psi.

As with the GCG items quite a few ppls have hit a wall around the 240-250rwkw mark behind manuals, I know of one GCG turbo behind an auto that has pushed 220rwkw on 14psi.

Slide.... What would a BB equiv be worth? I'm guessing very close to what GCG charge?

We dont do ball bearing T3 highflows for the simple fact that you may aswell buy a GT30R for the same price and have a 500 hp twin ball bearing turbo.

They can be low mounted and consealed to look just like the stock turbo.

[Sydneykid]

If you can source out the comp wheel specs and the turbine specs and help me with matching the housings im fine with that.

Providing both turbo's are the same and the "oil lines and bolts" are modified this could be quite interesting.

The only problem will be finding the exact same comp wheel and shaft.

Sorry I didn't explain it very well. I have off the shelf GCG ball bearing high flows of standard RB25DET (non Neo) turbos on both cars. No mods to lines or fittings, just unbolt the standard turbo and bolt on the high flow, no extra parts, no buying additonal bits and pieces and no modifications. What comes in the box I bolted on. They are exactly as I have arranged for in the Group Buy.

You are selling a plain bearing high flow and I want to compare them. So the go is to send me an off the shelf plain bearing high flow, as anyone on here would buy. What comes in the box I bolt on.

I will run the car up (which ever one you choose) on the dyno as it is right now. Then I will remove GCG ball bearing high flow and bolt your turbo on, exactly as I would if I was a normal customer. Then I will run the car up on the dyno without changing anything and compare the results.

If your turbo makes within 10% of the current power from 3,000 rpm to 7,000 rpm.

I will pay you for it, post up the dyno comparison and I will endorse it on SAU in anyway you like

But if it doesn’t make within 10%, what will you do?

cheers

[Slide]

Gary the reason why i asked for the specifications was that it would be like me selling one turbo and trying to compare it to a completely different one, which is the case.

This would obviously give different results and would be like comparing apples to oranges.

To be fair.....Exact internals, exact housings then we can see true numbers and true power differences.

Aaron

[dangerous_daveo]

Aaron its a bang for buck thing. If yours comes in at 11% less, but costs 20-30% less you have better bang for buck. The guys that want that extra 11% performance can pay for it. The rest of us are happy as we have more money left in our pocket to spend on petrol to enjoy the car.

I fully understand what your saying. Ideaily everything other than the bearing its self would be identical for the perfect comparision. Thats assuming we live in a perfect world. So if your product is the only one with your specs, then there is no comparision, which is a good and bad thing. But it would be unfair to say you couldnt compair it to the closest matched turbo. Maybe needing to make some sort of equation to adjust the results so its a more equal comparision.

I think you should take up the offer regardless. The information that could be gained by doing so is worth it.

Pardon any poor spelling or gramma.

[wolverine]

comparison or

just kidding,

i would love to see a direct comparison for all the reasons daveo has listed. it is clearly a bang for buck question for many here not just the outright performance.

Edited June 11, 2006 by wolverine

[paulr33]

how much is it to rebuild when the bearings fail?

[Cubes]

With regards to reliability.

The slide turbo's as stated use a 360degree thrust so they are not cheap nasty's, for the price of $890 including a 360degree thrust, thats a damn good price.

Here's a little explanation with a few pics of 270degree & 360degree.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0405tur_...bo_tech_part_1/

As with everything to save a few $$ there's a sacrifice.. A little bit of spool. I doubt reliability is really an issue here as providing the turbo rebuilder knows what he is doing there won' t be a problem.

I'm sure we would have heard about it by now if it were the case.

I believe BB cores pushed hard only last around 70,000km's anyway.

If I remember correctly 32gtr turbo's are bush, s14 turbo's are bush, vlt turbo's are bush.

Providing they are put together well and looked after with good oil and no hot shut downs they will be fine.

It all comes down to if one is happy trading a little spool time to save $$.

[paulr33]

thats cool, i understand that just curious how much

[AlexCim]

Id have to agree with Gary and say there should be no discussion of chaging the turbos specifications to match.

You are selling an off the shelf product, which will be compared to another off the shelf product.

Its like saying, lets compare a GTR with a GTST, but first, lets upgrade everything in the GTST to GTR specifications to make it fair... see how that doesnt work? Stock for stock, shelf for shelf.

Slide - In the end, send a turbo to Gary, he is going to do all the leg work for you to dyno it etc and compare it to a GCG. Given that your turbo is 1/2 the price that the GCG is, as long as its within 20% of the performance, it could be more appealing to people.

However, in the end after reading this entire thread+more now, id have to agree that thurst bearing turbos are just not practical enough for me to use on my daily. Sometimes you just spend a little bit more to get a whole lot more.

[TTT]

add S15 turbo's to that list of NON ball bearing turbo's.

Even the jap ones have BUSH bearings..

the ball bearing ones had different serial numbers, and it wasn't just on the Jap spec or aus spec.. they were kinda all over the place..

I am interested in this possible comparison that MIGHT happen here.

well not really.

$1750 for gcg or $890 for slide's one.

that's double the price and to "ME" not worth it.

but I'm tight..